[NAGDU] Ownership comments South east situation

Wed Jan 18 23:32:38 UTC 2017

Thank you I would like to talk to you send me your phone number off list.

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Wayne And Harley via NAGDU
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 6:01 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Wayne And Harley
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Ownership comments South east situation

Howard,You've made some interesting comments. Particularly regarding "putting you money where your mouth is".I agree totally, as I have done so. I footed the entire bill of adopting, raising, medical, training and equipping Harley D ( my current Service Animal ). It was, and is one of the best investments that I've ever made. True, though,  Owner Training isn't for  everyone, but it is, a viable option.

Yours, Very Sincerely And Respectfully,

Wayne M. Scace 

-------- Original message --------
From: "Howard J. Levine via NAGDU" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Date: 1/18/2017  07:26  (GMT-06:00) 
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
Cc: "Howard J. Levine" <WB2HWW at earthlink.net>, 'Jimmy' <jimmydagerman80 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Ownership comments South east situation 

Thank you I agree with you, every one thinks that they have right to something for free or almost no cost. Just look how this country voted. Just because we are blind does not give us the right to say I wanted it for free.
If you wanted it your way then go out and pay for it ,take out your check book or credit card like any other sighted person. If you want a car you write a check or take out loan.

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jimmy via NAGDU
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 7:49 AM
To: National Association of Guide Dog Users Gwizdala
Cc: Jimmy
Subject: [NAGDU] Ownership comments South east situation

Regarding the ownership issue, it seems this subject has been going on for a long time. I've believed that this  has been resented to the resolutions committee in 2016 and possibly in the past conventions and has not passed.
When the resolution was presented to the resolution committee, the Nagdu board and its members were not informed that this would be presented to the resolution committee or given the opportunity to discuss the proposition to the resolution committee before the convention. I would think if NAGDU would want to present a resolution, all board members, including all other members, should have the opportunity to voice their opinions and vote as to if the majority feel a resolution is needed.
Keep in mind these points. There have only been a few instances of what happened to the Southeastern graduate. In the other cases, and I am sure it will be claimed there have been numerous occurrences, we have not been given all the facts of each instance so that a informed decision or full understanding is made.Theoretically, one of those instances may of been justified; but then to say without providing facts on each case that all the other situations were discriminatory and improper without facts and proof of each case is not compelling. If you want to claim all the other situations, we need the facts on those cases as well.As far as the situation in Florida, we still have not heard indisputable facts as to all aspects of the situation. What has been presented are assumptions, hear  say,and lack of indesputable fact. A person should not assume or make an claim without all of the facts. Unfortunately, the individual ,regardless of the circumstances, signed documents from someone they did not really know and did not read the writing. That is a horrible idea.
Next point: This point has been mentioned so many times. As in choosing a university or place of employment, choosing to rent or lease a home or car, you do your homework and choose which  program/university, or financial program works bests for you. If  ownership is important to you and you are weary of losing your dog, do not go to that school. There are schools that offer complete ownership. YOu have options. If you don't like it, then you should consider the $50,000 the school paid and invested in that dog, and I am sure they will provide you ownership.I understand that some say it is the whole perspective and precedence of just not being able to own your own dog.It is assumed that the schools must be undoubtedly not giving ownership because of low expectations etc.BUt let's do some math. You have a school that has 12 classes a month with 25 students. This gives you about 300 students you are training and providing dogs to each year. Multiply this by
$50,000 of the total cost of each dog in the program and you get $15 million. SO, my point to consider, if you investing and spending $15 million a year, you want to make sure the dogs are in good  hands, cared for, and that your product is being used in such a way the customer is benefiting and your organization is being reflected positively.Now, my consideration is to , instead of trying to force a company/organization to change their policy because you assume they have bad intentions, take a different perspective.
Approach the issue from a different angle. What if we tried to work with the schools, rather than constantly criticize and ridicule them. Why do you think  fewer and fewer schools and their representatives attend our meetings and are not willing to participate? So instead, what if we worked on our relationships with the schools. Then, propose schools  put into place a committee or have a universal committee that all the schools implement. This committee could review and investigate any claims or reports of abuse or poor treatment of their guide dog.; then, they could report to thee involved school with the full investigative findings.This may not change all of the schools policies to give full ownership, but it would put into place a universal process to ensure just due process and investigation.That way, there  are no doubts or question if a dog was taken for no reason.
In summary, I think we need to not let our emotions and our own agenda get in the way of what is factual and true.If there are countless other removals of dogs from their owners, I want to see the proof of each of those instances, and not just hearsay. I want numbers and facts.I want better relationships with the schools.I want us  to consider alternative approaches to the ownership issues if the body and board feel this is important.More so, we should consider alternatives to ensuring that due process takes place when a report is given to a school and not automatically assume the school is a bad guy trying to take every opportunity to repossess their dogs.Finally, If one of us invested $15 million a year to a product,  most of us would not give it away, no questions asked. And it not because we don't trust our customer. It is because we invested a lot of time and money into our product and we want what is best for the product and the customer.
The way the dog and client team work and demonstrate themselves reflects on the blind community, us as federationists, and reflects on the school where the dog guide came from. This is not a black and white issue. There  are many facets to this issue. The federation body has spoken as to how they feel based on the failing of the resolution. But if this issue wants to be proposed again to the federation  body, the whole Nagdu body, including board and members, should have an opportunity to voice their opinions and decide together if we want the issue to go to resolutions once more.That did not happen in the past, and that is probably part of the reason why the resolution fell on it's face.Those  are just my thoughts and do not reflect on the board or the whole body's opinion. As a board member, I think all of our members should sound out their thoughts.We could also consider putting together a  accessible poll or survey to see  where the whole  NAGDU body stands on this issue.
Phone: 901-483-1515
Personal Email: jimmydagerman80 at gmail.com Refer NFB correspondences to:
secretary at nfb-tn.org

"Blindness never limits- Low expectations do! Live the life you want!"
_______________________________________________
NAGDU mailing list
NAGDU at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/wb2hww%40earthlink.net

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

_______________________________________________
NAGDU mailing list
NAGDU at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/k9dad%40k9di.org
_______________________________________________
NAGDU mailing list
NAGDU at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/wb2hww%40earthlink.net