[NAGDU] Billings clinic

Thu Jul 20 19:19:09 UTC 2017

I was asked today if I could bring over different transportation.
Yes I can do this, where pals has a grant each year where if it is good 
for anyone else to use to get to appointments it is good for me as well.
I shared on behalf of the last dog where they called the school each 
time I went threw the building.
You have to pass their area to get to elevators things like that.
I shared I want to be left alone in training my dog to go from 
appointmnet to appointment unless I ask for help.
She kept saying she didn't know about service dogs.
I shared this is a guide dog not a service dog.
Yes I know they are all the same.
I shared my dog is not allowed to talk to anyone on that floor.
Felt it better to keep it simple.
I shared if I was threatened again I was bringing my lawyer.
She doesn't want this to happen.
After I am done here, I will send a message to my lawyer on heads up if 
I need to use him for this matter.
Thanks again,
Original message:
> Hi, Dar. That helps a bit. Overall, it sounds like a situation of sighted
> people not knowing what the heck they are talking about. As to prong collars
> and other equipment, if the school is aware of it and if you've gotten
> instruction on how to use it correctly, then that's great. I hope that next
> time they will match you with a dog whose natural pace is in line with what
> you need. Although, I do understand that we can have medical conditions
> worsen or crop up or improve causing our walking speeds to be considerably
> faster or slower than those of our guides who were correctly matched at the
> time of issue of the dog. As to sit and getting immediate results, I do
> daily obedience with my dogs, of course, but I am not looking for instant,
> show quality obedience, to preserve the initiative of my dogs for that all
> so important intelligent disobedience. When I say "sit" I expect Ilsa to do
> so, but I also had to learn to use my voice to advantage. I had been very
> firmly commanding her as I did with Frieda, but she is much softer, and I
> actually found that saying "Sit in a really happy, lifting tone made her sit
> with about 95 percent accuracy. So many different topics in your post, but
> basically, I'd recommend not starting conversations about your dog, your
> handling or the team with people on Pals or at this medical center unless
> there is a particular need you have that they can address. They have proven
> to be difficult on numerous occasions, so I would just not talk to them at
> all, or keep the topics on things like the weather, sports, current events,
> etc.

> Have a great day.

> Heather Bird
> "They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't
> a Communist.
> Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
> Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I
> wasn't a trade unionist.
> Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a
> Protestant.
> Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up." -
> Martin Niemöller
> In our diverse society we must never fail to speak up in the face of Human
> Rights violations lest we be the next targets of such violations.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of d m gina via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 2:58 PM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Cc: d m gina
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Billings clinic

> I live in Montana where we have the joys of winter months.
> Also the joys of minus tempatures.
> The clinic is for persons not vet.
> Yes I use gentle leader what they called can't think of the name now.
> Doesn't matter.
> Yes I will use prong collar if needed when I have neuropathy in my feet and
> dog goes to fast.
> It will slow her down.
> To go my speed not hers loll.
> School is fine with this.
> I have had dogs for years, so I truly know it is ok to use prong collar if
> needed.
> I also did the training with pet smart where they like gentle leader.
> I also got a collar from chewey.com she is wearing where it still won't keep
> nose from wishing the best of eating off the floor when she gets a chance,
> where it will help her sit down fast at command.
> She is getting better with the sit loll.
> Hope this helps.
> Original message:
>> Hi, Dar. I am very sorry but I am having trouble understanding the
>> particulars of your story. I am unsure if English is a second language
>> for you? Or, perhaps you are dictating your post? I get the gist of
>> your story, but not the intricacies. Is PALS a paratransit service?
>> The clinic is for people or a veterinary clinic? Obviously the clinic
>> can't have any rules regarding the equipment that a guide dog does or
>> does not use. A muzzle? I am assuming that you mean a gentle leader? I
>> don't know of any time when it would be appropriate or necessary to
>> actually muzzle a guide dog. Prong collars are also generally not a
>> good idea. Can they occasionally be needed and effective tools?
>> Absolutely, but generally they are not issued to grads and trying other
> options first is usually the way to go. Booties in doors?
>> Its none of the clinic's business, of course, but I personally, always
>> remove booties indoors as the dog can slip and slide around on slick
>> floors with booties on and straining or dislocating a hip or shoulder
>> would be very bad for a guide dog. So, I am still trying to
>> understand, your dog got loose? At this visit, or a different earlier
>> occasion? I don't think you did anything wrong, and it does sound like
>> harassment, but due to the way in which the post is written, I am
>> truly struggling to understand the specifics of your situation and the
> incident you are telling the list about.

>> Heather Bird
>> "They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I
>> wasn't a Communist.
>> Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
>> Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because
>> I wasn't a trade unionist.
>> Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was
>> a Protestant.
>> Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."
>> - Martin Niemöller In our diverse society we must never fail to speak
>> up in the face of Human Rights violations lest we be the next targets
>> of such violations.

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of S L Johnson
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 2:09 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: S L Johnson
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Billings clinic

>> Dar:

>> I can understand why you are upset.  It is not the van driver's job to
>> criticize you and your dog.  The public does not understand how
>> difficult it can be to control a young rambunctious dog.  I always
>> have told people to call my school.  Then the school can explain that
>> I am working my dog in the way I was instructed to during training.
>> You should definitely speak to a supervisor.  If the problems
>> continue, then you may have to try another clinic.  Good luck.

>> Sandra and Eva

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: d m gina via NAGDU
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 12:46 PM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: d m gina
>> Subject: [NAGDU] Billings clinic

>> Yesterday I was picked up by a van from the Billings clinic to go to a
>> doctor appointment.
>> The lady started unlocking my gate, I shared I would be glad to do
>> this when folks find it easier to brake the lock than open gate.
>> She got in a huff saying I didn't want help from anyone.
>> I shared that would be fine to help if anyone would replace the broken
>> part on the gate.
>> I smiled getting into the van.
>> Then making conversation I shared a few months ago I dropped the leash
>> getting out of the van with my cane where the dog decided to take a
> strole.
>> Even when I called her she stopped but had plans to take a nice walk
>> down our block.
>> The driver asked me if she could get the dog, I shared that would be
>> kind of you.
>> Well after lady left I corrected dog because this wasn't going to be a
>> game played many times over.
>> We live on a busy stree, where I was waiting for her to get hit.
>> The lady shared that the pals department was working on taking my dog
> away.
>> That I was mean to my dog had no respect for the dog, and I didn't
>> deserve the dog.
>> My rely was it is good to know what is happening how far have you gotten?
>> Reply was not far we don't know school you got this dog from.
>> I have Julie's harness with no school name on it.
>> Also a leash same way no school ame on it.
>> I must say I was shaken when I know all I try to do is keep missie in
>> control in a public building.
>> Lady shared that she knew I had three dogs taken away from me.
>> I explained that wasn't true. Her reply was then that roomer had to stop.
>> We get to the clinic where she starts talking to dog.
>> I asked her not to do this just speak to person who trained with dog
>> and they will give commands.
>> She shared I didn't know what I was talking about and the dog knew
> nothing.
>> I asked her to stop enough was enough.
>> I get into building where she asks someone to take me up to my place
>> of appointment.
>> Not to talk to dog or touch it even though it is something that must
>> be done.
>> I did get to the second floor asking immediently to speak to a manager.
>> I shared that I was threatened to have my dog taken away from the pals
>> clinic.
>> He asked if I got hit and I said no, I shared what happened, sharing
>> that my training for the dog was from set school, and I wasn't going
>> to change a thing.
>> I want to be left alone on how to travel with my dog making sure she
>> is well behaved in a setting as a clinic.
>> Then I kept going up to the top.
>> Way to the top.
>> The lady shared with me she understood getting hold of staff in the
>> pals area.
>> I can't train dog if she doesn't make mistakes.
>> Showing her doors elevators and much more as we are all trained to do
>> in set schools.
>> This is not the first time this problem has happened in set clinic.
>> It was so bad seeing eye said they wouldn't take me back because they
>> had to many complaints from set clinic.
>> Complaints as muzzle was on to tight, boots are on dogs feet, prong
>> collar shouldn't be used at all.
>> Corrections are not allowed in clinic.
>> Where when I brought her home, she had springs in her feet. If she
>> thought something was good to look at behind her, she would jump and turn
> around.
>> I picked her up by the middle of the harness sitting her down saying
>> we are going this direction.
>> That never happened again.
>> Someone decided that it was ok to have her jump in their lap.
>> I shared this wasn't part of the training. Getting her down again, she
>> did get corrected to let her know this wasn't going to happen again.
>> I am giving clinic another chance where if this doesn't stop I am
>> feeling I can charge pals for harassment.
>> Just thought I would share.
>> I went home by uber I didn't want to go home with the same lady having
>> more problems.
>> The ride to the clinic is free to those who are patients of the clinic.
>> A grant is given to them so it isn't as though they are paying for set
>> grant.
>> Thanks for reading.

>> --
>> --Dar
>> skype: dmgina23
>>   FB: dmgina
>> www.twitter.com/dmgina
>> every saint has a past
>> every sinner has a future

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> --
> --Dar
> skype: dmgina23
>   FB: dmgina
> www.twitter.com/dmgina
> every saint has a past
> every sinner has a future

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-- 
--Dar
skype: dmgina23
  FB: dmgina
www.twitter.com/dmgina
every saint has a past
every sinner has a future