[NAGDU] Billings clinic

Thu Jul 20 15:44:36 UTC 2017

Hi, Dar. That helps a bit. Overall, it sounds like a situation of sighted
people not knowing what the heck they are talking about. As to prong collars
and other equipment, if the school is aware of it and if you've gotten
instruction on how to use it correctly, then that's great. I hope that next
time they will match you with a dog whose natural pace is in line with what
you need. Although, I do understand that we can have medical conditions
worsen or crop up or improve causing our walking speeds to be considerably
faster or slower than those of our guides who were correctly matched at the
time of issue of the dog. As to sit and getting immediate results, I do
daily obedience with my dogs, of course, but I am not looking for instant,
show quality obedience, to preserve the initiative of my dogs for that all
so important intelligent disobedience. When I say "sit" I expect Ilsa to do
so, but I also had to learn to use my voice to advantage. I had been very
firmly commanding her as I did with Frieda, but she is much softer, and I
actually found that saying "Sit in a really happy, lifting tone made her sit
with about 95 percent accuracy. So many different topics in your post, but
basically, I'd recommend not starting conversations about your dog, your
handling or the team with people on Pals or at this medical center unless
there is a particular need you have that they can address. They have proven
to be difficult on numerous occasions, so I would just not talk to them at
all, or keep the topics on things like the weather, sports, current events,
etc.

Have a great day.

Heather Bird
"They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't
a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I
wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a
Protestant.
Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up." -
Martin Niemöller
In our diverse society we must never fail to speak up in the face of Human
Rights violations lest we be the next targets of such violations.

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of d m gina via
NAGDU
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 2:58 PM
To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
Cc: d m gina
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Billings clinic

I live in Montana where we have the joys of winter months.
Also the joys of minus tempatures.
The clinic is for persons not vet.
Yes I use gentle leader what they called can't think of the name now.
Doesn't matter.
Yes I will use prong collar if needed when I have neuropathy in my feet and
dog goes to fast.
It will slow her down.
To go my speed not hers loll.
School is fine with this.
I have had dogs for years, so I truly know it is ok to use prong collar if
needed.
I also did the training with pet smart where they like gentle leader.
I also got a collar from chewey.com she is wearing where it still won't keep
nose from wishing the best of eating off the floor when she gets a chance,
where it will help her sit down fast at command.
She is getting better with the sit loll.
Hope this helps.
Original message:
> Hi, Dar. I am very sorry but I am having trouble understanding the 
> particulars of your story. I am unsure if English is a second language 
> for you? Or, perhaps you are dictating your post? I get the gist of 
> your story, but not the intricacies. Is PALS a paratransit service? 
> The clinic is for people or a veterinary clinic? Obviously the clinic 
> can't have any rules regarding the equipment that a guide dog does or 
> does not use. A muzzle? I am assuming that you mean a gentle leader? I 
> don't know of any time when it would be appropriate or necessary to 
> actually muzzle a guide dog. Prong collars are also generally not a 
> good idea. Can they occasionally be needed and effective tools? 
> Absolutely, but generally they are not issued to grads and trying other
options first is usually the way to go. Booties in doors?
> Its none of the clinic's business, of course, but I personally, always 
> remove booties indoors as the dog can slip and slide around on slick 
> floors with booties on and straining or dislocating a hip or shoulder 
> would be very bad for a guide dog. So, I am still trying to 
> understand, your dog got loose? At this visit, or a different earlier 
> occasion? I don't think you did anything wrong, and it does sound like 
> harassment, but due to the way in which the post is written, I am 
> truly struggling to understand the specifics of your situation and the
incident you are telling the list about.

> Heather Bird
> "They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I 
> wasn't a Communist.
> Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
> Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because 
> I wasn't a trade unionist.
> Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was 
> a Protestant.
> Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up." 
> - Martin Niemöller In our diverse society we must never fail to speak 
> up in the face of Human Rights violations lest we be the next targets 
> of such violations.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of S L Johnson 
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 2:09 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: S L Johnson
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Billings clinic

> Dar:

> I can understand why you are upset.  It is not the van driver's job to 
> criticize you and your dog.  The public does not understand how 
> difficult it can be to control a young rambunctious dog.  I always 
> have told people to call my school.  Then the school can explain that 
> I am working my dog in the way I was instructed to during training.  
> You should definitely speak to a supervisor.  If the problems 
> continue, then you may have to try another clinic.  Good luck.

> Sandra and Eva

> -----Original Message-----
> From: d m gina via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 12:46 PM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Cc: d m gina
> Subject: [NAGDU] Billings clinic

> Yesterday I was picked up by a van from the Billings clinic to go to a 
> doctor appointment.
> The lady started unlocking my gate, I shared I would be glad to do 
> this when folks find it easier to brake the lock than open gate.
> She got in a huff saying I didn't want help from anyone.
> I shared that would be fine to help if anyone would replace the broken 
> part on the gate.
> I smiled getting into the van.
> Then making conversation I shared a few months ago I dropped the leash 
> getting out of the van with my cane where the dog decided to take a
strole.
> Even when I called her she stopped but had plans to take a nice walk 
> down our block.
> The driver asked me if she could get the dog, I shared that would be 
> kind of you.
> Well after lady left I corrected dog because this wasn't going to be a 
> game played many times over.
> We live on a busy stree, where I was waiting for her to get hit.
> The lady shared that the pals department was working on taking my dog
away.
> That I was mean to my dog had no respect for the dog, and I didn't 
> deserve the dog.
> My rely was it is good to know what is happening how far have you gotten?
> Reply was not far we don't know school you got this dog from.
> I have Julie's harness with no school name on it.
> Also a leash same way no school ame on it.
> I must say I was shaken when I know all I try to do is keep missie in 
> control in a public building.
> Lady shared that she knew I had three dogs taken away from me.
> I explained that wasn't true. Her reply was then that roomer had to stop.
> We get to the clinic where she starts talking to dog.
> I asked her not to do this just speak to person who trained with dog 
> and they will give commands.
> She shared I didn't know what I was talking about and the dog knew
nothing.
> I asked her to stop enough was enough.
> I get into building where she asks someone to take me up to my place 
> of appointment.
> Not to talk to dog or touch it even though it is something that must 
> be done.
> I did get to the second floor asking immediently to speak to a manager.
> I shared that I was threatened to have my dog taken away from the pals 
> clinic.
> He asked if I got hit and I said no, I shared what happened, sharing 
> that my training for the dog was from set school, and I wasn't going 
> to change a thing.
> I want to be left alone on how to travel with my dog making sure she 
> is well behaved in a setting as a clinic.
> Then I kept going up to the top.
> Way to the top.
> The lady shared with me she understood getting hold of staff in the 
> pals area.
> I can't train dog if she doesn't make mistakes.
> Showing her doors elevators and much more as we are all trained to do 
> in set schools.
> This is not the first time this problem has happened in set clinic.
> It was so bad seeing eye said they wouldn't take me back because they 
> had to many complaints from set clinic.
> Complaints as muzzle was on to tight, boots are on dogs feet, prong 
> collar shouldn't be used at all.
> Corrections are not allowed in clinic.
> Where when I brought her home, she had springs in her feet. If she 
> thought something was good to look at behind her, she would jump and turn
around.
> I picked her up by the middle of the harness sitting her down saying 
> we are going this direction.
> That never happened again.
> Someone decided that it was ok to have her jump in their lap.
> I shared this wasn't part of the training. Getting her down again, she 
> did get corrected to let her know this wasn't going to happen again.
> I am giving clinic another chance where if this doesn't stop I am 
> feeling I can charge pals for harassment.
> Just thought I would share.
> I went home by uber I didn't want to go home with the same lady having 
> more problems.
> The ride to the clinic is free to those who are patients of the clinic.
> A grant is given to them so it isn't as though they are paying for set 
> grant.
> Thanks for reading.

> --
> --Dar
> skype: dmgina23
>   FB: dmgina
> www.twitter.com/dmgina
> every saint has a past
> every sinner has a future

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--
--Dar
skype: dmgina23
  FB: dmgina
www.twitter.com/dmgina
every saint has a past
every sinner has a future

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