[NAGDU] This is why I love this list, was Accountability for comments was: Emotional Support Dog attack on delta.

Wed Jun 14 20:59:56 UTC 2017

I can believe that.  The problems I have had with American were not really their fault since I had not communicated clearly what I needed, and we shall see if what I said holds up since I will be using Southwest to get to Orlando.
Jordan

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 14, 2017, at 3:55 PM, Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> But see, the moment you suggest you have never had a problem with, Say Southwest, someone (I) can tell you an incident on Southwest that happened some six years ago. So I would be surprised if you can find an airline that is free of this. *smile*
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan Gallacher via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 3:50 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Jordan Gallacher <jordanandbelto at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] This is why I love this list, was Accountability for comments was: Emotional Support Dog attack on delta.
> 
> Totally agree with you Heather about this list.  I have seen it personally where people were thrown out of other lists just for agreeing or disagreeing with someone. It is intersting because Delta has been the one airline that has been the most problematic for me with all my dogs, but I still generally think they are a pretty good airline most of the time.  The two airlines I have never had trouble with dog wise are American and Southwest.
> Jordan 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 14, 2017, at 2:17 PM, Heather Bird via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello. First of all. Joe, thanks for standing up for me, as it were. 
>> Dave, absolutely no apologies necessary. We are discussing, debating, 
>> asking questions, giving and seeking clarification, and that is how 
>> discussion is supposed to work, no? I absolutely have no problem with 
>> someone seeking clarification of something I've said. It could be that 
>> I say something incorrect, in which case I would like to get the 
>> correct information, and more importantly, if someone on list ever 
>> says something that is incorrect, than it is important that someone 
>> set them strait on the list, so that we don't walk away with wrong 
>> information. If I say something that is right, but it is 
>> misunderstood, then I have no problem clarifying. If I say something 
>> that is right for me, but not right or accurate for someone else, then sharing both sets of experiences is valuable to everyone on list.
>> 
>> I love this list. On some lists I am on, one of two things would have 
>> happened, either A. the moderator fearing discord would have freaked 
>> out, panicked and said "Discussion closed, absolutely no more talking 
>> about this what so ever." Or, B. the person disagreeing with or 
>> questioning the other would have gotten nasty and attacking and the 
>> list would have spiraled into chaos. I feel that I have been very 
>> respectful in my communications, and that both Joe and Dave have been 
>> equally respectful. So, yeah, this is why I love this list. I see 
>> value in some of the other lists I am on, but the drama is supremely 
>> irritating, so it is refreshing to belong to this list where 
>> discussions are lively, but no one is getting nasty with anyone, or being sickeningly sweet and politically correct either.
>> 
>> Hooray! Go NAGDU List!
>> 
>> Heather Bird
>> "They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I 
>> wasn't a Communist.
>> Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
>> Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because 
>> I wasn't a trade unionist.
>> Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was 
>> a Protestant.
>> Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up." 
>> - Martin Niemöller In our diverse society we must never fail to speak 
>> up in the face of Human Rights violations lest we be the next targets 
>> of such violations.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David via 
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 12:14 PM
>> To: Joe Orozco via NAGDU
>> Cc: David
>> Subject: [NAGDU] Accountability for comments was: Emotional Support 
>> Dog attack on delta.
>> 
>> Well, Joe, as a colleague of mine used to say before disagreeing with 
>> me, I don't necessarily disagree with you, but ...
>> 
>> As members of a guide dog handlers' group, we count on each other to 
>> inform us about the world out there, particularly as it affects us and our pups.
>> I, too, would be very surprised, given the millions of passengers 
>> served and their thousands of employees, that any airline could not be 
>> called out for instances of egregious negative staff behavior toward 
>> handlers.  On the other hand, the statement: "Delta is already one of 
>> the worst offenders for access issues related to service dog use" is 
>> so far away from my experience with Delta that it caught my attention.  
>> After doing some initial research of my own on the internet, I was not 
>> able to find any "Delta offenses for access issues".  Frankly, this 
>> surprised me.  I'm not saying that they aren't there, or that members 
>> of NAGDU or my other listservs haven't experienced bad treatment on 
>> Delta.  It is just in stark contrast to them being "one of the worst offenders".
>> 
>> I enjoy Heather's posts, the time she puts into them, and their 
>> analytical rigor, but her explanation that she has "had minor incidents on Delta*"
>> *doesn't help inform me about the world out there.  Heather has no 
>> obligation to do so, and I should have written a private note back to 
>> her, rather than putting her in a defensive position in front of 
>> others.  I apologize for doing so. I'm sorry Heather.
>> 
>> On the other hand, Joe, I believe what we say to each other about the 
>> world out there does matter.  When what we are saying strongly 
>> conflicts with someone's experience, then I think we do owe each other 
>> support for our own opinions, examples of our experience, or source of our knowledge.
>> 
>> *David and Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL*
>> 
>> *david at bakerinet.com
>> 
>> *
>>> On 6/14/2017 9:07 AM, Joe Orozco via NAGDU wrote:
>>> I don't know that it really matters whether or not Heather can 
>>> produce
>> specific reports pertaining to Delta.
>> 
>> 
>> 
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