[NAGDU] Ethics, Law, & Your Public Comments: Was Retired Dogs & Rent

Tracy Carcione carcione at access.net
Sat Jun 24 13:41:41 UTC 2017 

I don't see how occasionally using a retired dog makes things more difficult
for anyone, speaking in terms of public access, not housing, unless whatever
caused the dog to retire is a physical or mental illness, like
aggressiveness or seizures, for example.
Retirement doesn't flip a switch and make the dog forget all its training.
If its just slowed down, or doesn't have the energy anymore to work every
day, and its handler works it once in a while, I don't see that as a
problem.  
Tracy

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Wayne & Harley
via NAGDU
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 7:56 PM
To: Stacie Hardy - NFBHOU via NAGDU
Cc: Wayne & Harley
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Ethics, Law, & Your Public Comments: Was Retired Dogs &
Rent

*    Hello Stacie,
I'd like to offer a small clarification. While I agree with your sentiment,
there does need some clarifying.
No dog, whether a Service Animal, or a pet have any rights.
Perhaps you meant to say "**When our Service Animals retire, we no longer
have the same rights as when our Service Animal is working". 
Meaning that we no longer have the right to be accompanied by the retired
Service Animal in public, nor the right to not have to pay a pet deposit for
the retired Service Animal. I agree that those passing their retired Service
Animals off as working to claim benefits not due them is definitely making
it more difficult for owners of working Service Animals.

Wayne And Harley D
k9dad at k9di.org
"Remember, all Guide Dogs are Service Dogs, but not all Service Dogs are
Guide Dogs". ( I don't know who to attribute this to).

*

On 6/22/2017 8:46 PM, Stacie Hardy - NFBHOU via NAGDU wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> We're just getting back from traveling, and I'm getting caught on some 
> email. Saw this thread, and decided to read and respond. I completely 
> agree with what Marion has said. When our guide dogs retire, they are 
> no longer given the same rights as working guide or service dogs. I 
> think people who try to pass off their retired guide dogs to get 
> certain benefits are making things difficult for the working guide 
> dogs. Just my thoughts. Looking forward to seeing some of you in 
> Orlando. Warm regards.
>
> Stacie Hardy <shardy at nfbtx.org>
> President: NFB of Texas Houston Chapter Voice and Text: (346) 704-0190 
> or (832) 779-7477
>
> "A question never asked is an answer never known"
> "Live the life you want!"
>
> On 6/21/2017 8:50 PM, Cindy Ray via NAGDU wrote:
>> The only thing I would say about this semi-retired thing is that 
>> people don't get it. Let's imagine that you aren't paying a pet 
>> deposit because your dog is a guide except that now he is 
>> semi-retired. Let's imagine he was left alone in the apartment and, 
>> say, a thunderstorm came up and those freak im out. Let's imagine you 
>> have not seen this fact in him before, but suppose he tore up the 
>> place in a panic while he was at home enjoying semi-retirement. Would 
>> you then offer to pay for the damage? Might the landlord not think 
>> that you were being a bit flexible of the dog's place in life? I 
>> think I would not differentiate between retired and working unless he 
>> is truly retired. If the dog was having problems where he couldn't 
>> always work, I would just say he's my guide if he were still working 
>> in that capacity.
>>
>> Cindy Lou Ray
>> cindyray at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan 
>> Gallacher via NAGDU
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 8:29 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Jordan Gallacher <jordanandbelto at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Ethics, Law, & Your Public Comments: Was Retired 
>> Dogs & Rent
>>
>> Semi retired means only working part time due to old age or helth.  
>> So, I
>> don't think there is any problem in doing what I said.
>> Jordan
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray 
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 8:18 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Cc: Cindy Ray
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Ethics, Law, & Your Public Comments: Was Retired 
>> Dogs & Rent
>>
>> I would have to agree with President Gwizdala on this semi-retired 
>> business.
>> I had a dog who was retired once in about 2006. I retired him during 
>> my first semester at the seminary. I missed him terribly. The school 
>> gave me permission to bring him back to stay at the school with me 
>> because he had been my companion. I kept him there the rest of the 
>> semester, but I learned some interesting and eye-opening things.
>> 1) Since he was retired or even semi-retired, he wouldn't be going to 
>> class with me but, rather, would stay in my room. He was not 
>> destructive, but this fact alone had totally changed the relationship 
>> between him, me, and the school for that matter.
>>
>> 2) If I went to someone's room/apartment because they had a 
>> get-together or a party, they could ask me not to bring him, and I 
>> would need to comply. It would have been wrong for me to argue this 
>> point.
>>
>> 3) There was a pet policy at my seminary. There was a weight limit, 
>> and all of the pets had to live in a certain building. I did not live 
>> in that building, and my dog was larger than the pet limit by spades 
>> no matter where we stayed.
>>
>> 4) People were staying there at the school during the week; then many 
>> went home for the weekend. They missed their pets that couldn't come 
>> along, and there was a little sense of unfairness about it. It 
>> occurred to me just how unfair it was that my dog was there. He 
>> wasn't a guide anymore, he was a pet. So I made the decision to leave 
>> him at home after about six weeks. It had helped me through a 
>> difficult time, but I had risked my relationships with many I think.
>>
>> My current dog is actually retired. One day I had him work me to the 
>> dentist, but I didn't hide the fact that he was actually retired. He 
>> was in harness doing what he was supposed to do. I used him because 
>> with large tree equipment outside I couldn't hear if there was 
>> traffic or not. I'm not sure it was ethical for me to do this; I did 
>> not lie about who he was, and the dentist regarded him as a guide. 
>> This is not something I would make a practice of because I think he 
>> either is retired or he isn't. If I were in a situation where pet 
>> deposits were required,  I would pay it because Fisher is now a pet. 
>> Carrying that further, I suppose I would have to find a new place to 
>> live if there was a size limit on the pet or the pet wasn't allowed 
>> at all, though if I were in a lease situation I might negotiate a 
>> satisfactory way to deal with the remainder of the lease, depending 
>> on the terms of it.
>>
>> Cindy Lou Ray
>> cindyray at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of NAGDU 
>> President via NAGDU
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 7:10 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: NAGDU President <blind411 at verizon.net>
>> Subject: [NAGDU] Ethics, Law, & Your Public Comments: Was Retired 
>> Dogs & Rent
>>
>>     In graduate school I was required to take a course in ethics. The 
>> professor defined ethics as "compliance with the unenforceable". I 
>> believe this is as much a matter of ethics as it is a matter of law. 
>> In my opinion, taking advantage of the law by calling a retired 
>> service dog "semi retired"
>> is unethical, as well as illegal.  How is this different than those 
>> who take advantage of the law that provides us access to places of 
>> public accommodation with our service dog by misrepresenting their 
>> pet as a service dog? It is no different when we call our retired 
>> service dog semi retired in order to avoid paying a pet deposit. 
>> Folks, we can't have it both ways! We cannot ask for those who 
>> misrepresent their pets as service dogs to not do so if we are 
>> willing to act the same way.
>>
>>     I also want to remind everyone that this list is publicly 
>> archived on the internet. What you say and how you represent yourself 
>> is here for the entire world to read. If you are willing to 
>> compromise your integrity by suggesting someone act in a manner 
>> contrary to ethics and law, you are telling the world a lot about 
>> yourself. Is this the way you want others to think of you?
>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU) National 
>> Federation of the Blind
>> (813) 626-2789
>> President at NAGDU.ORG
>>
>>
>> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the 
>> characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise 
>> expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind 
>> people and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is 
>> not what holds you back.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan 
>> Gallacher via NAGDU
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 6:04 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Cc: Jordan Gallacher
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Retired Dogs & Rent
>>
>> Here is what my instructor said about that.  Semi retire the dog 
>> since you can have two service animals with no problems.  That is 
>> what I would do.
>> Jordan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nancy 
>> VanderBrink via NAGDU
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 4:32 PM
>> To: Nancy VanderBrink via Nagdu
>> Cc: Nancy VanderBrink
>> Subject: [NAGDU] Retired Dogs & Rent
>>
>> Hey folks,
>> So a question was asked on a group i follow and wondered what you 
>> guys knew.
>>
>> So, if you're renting either a house or apartment with your current 
>> guide.
>> I'm going to assume you're not paying a pet fee.
>>
>> Folks that have done this before, after you retire your guide; do you 
>> have to pay a pet fee if you keep your guide, do you have to then pay 
>> a pet fee?
>>
>> Just curious to know what you've experienced.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Nancy
>>
>> Please forgive the typos as this message was most likely generated 
>> using voice dictation Nancy Irwin
>>
>>
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