[NAGDU] FW: [Njagdu] Blind woman and guide dog kicked off American Airline flight

Joe jsoro620 at gmail.com
Fri Mar 17 20:00:00 UTC 2017


Cindy,

Unless the employees are grabbing you and physically dragging you off, there
is little point in allowing our emotions to get the better of us and
skipping out on a teachable moment.

Trust me, I understand the anger and frustration with missing a scheduled
trip. I was previously denied service on a bus carrier twice in two separate
states. The customer service agents and bus drivers all spoke poor English.
Local police was slow to respond in both DC and New York. This was in the
dead of winter, cold and raining, and even after I took them to federal
court, I had a hard time pinning them down because they kept changing their
company name. So, yes, I totally get it.

However, if the situation taught me anything, it was to maximize the
education I could impart given the unique scenario. I could either be an
angry blind man or work the factors in the episode to leave some sort of a
positive impression. In a different incident I was denied service again
using a similar bus line. The police officer who responded had the audacity
to say the bus company could deny me service since it was a private company.
I need not tell you how incredibly pissed the remark made me. Let's not get
into poor training and misleading facts, but I took a different approach. I
asked if she understood the bus company was denying me service on the
grounds of my Seeing Eye dog. She said she understood. I asked if she
understood the Seeing Eye was what I used as a result of my disability, that
the dog was every bit a part of my essentials to get around, basically a
part of me, and again she said she understood. I then asked how she would
feel if the same company refused to allow her to board one of their buses on
the grounds of her being African-American? That gave her pause. I think she
understood the situation a little better, but it is not something I would
have come close to helping her realize had I submitted to my temper, which I
assure you can be epic with stupid people.

In a different scenario I was denied entry into a Chinese restaurant. The
owner claimed health code violations. I called the police. Sadly, the police
in that town was incompetent when it came to ADA matters, but I followed up
with a call to a health inspector who stopped by the facility and set the
owner straight on the legality of allowing service animals. I met up with
the lady again later, and she apologized for the misunderstanding and gave
me a free meal. No, not every incident is going to end this happily, but I
firmly believe the only reason the incident was wrapped up so positively is
because in the middle of the denial, I remained calm and collected.

On lists like these, and in the company of fellow Federationists, it's easy
to believe we are a well-known factor. We kind of assume the established
laws will protect our right to move about without trouble, but you and I
both know it does not always shake out that way.

We might do well to remember a few points:

1. People do not encounter guide dogs, or service animals of any stripe, in
public spaces on a regular basis. When they do, it is generally a novelty.
We hope the encounter will be a positive one, but sometimes, rare but true,
it will not be positive.

2. With more people passing off their pets as service animals, it's likely
more employees at different establishments have encountered negative
experiences. That's unfortunate for us, but that's the lay of the land these
days. The uncooperative employees may not be reacting badly toward you, but
rather, to a previous episode.

3. How we tackle a situation will have an impact on the blind person and
guide dog coming behind us. I'll admit I hate being an ambassador for the
rest of you, too much pressure, but because we are a minority, I try to keep
in mind that my behaviors will reflect on the rest of my blind community.

Of course, in situations like these, it is always best to figure out what
you will do before the incident hits. You're never going to think clearly
when you're in the middle of the stressful incident. It's like emergency
preparation, so in my case, I think of what I might say to the uneducated
people, and how I will say it. I think of how I might capture the incident,
whether through audio or video or both, and I think of what steps I'll take
to file a complaint against the company using whatever means I have at my
disposal to make them the target of an investigation. Yes, I may very well
be booted from an aircraft one day. I'll go away quietly enough, but I'll be
damned if I don't make them feel the sting of the repercussion for having
been discriminatory.

I would never suggest we roll over and play docile. I fall into the
Christian camp of people who will turn the other cheek, but boy, you better
watch out for the fist coming round to greet you. I am simply suggesting we
be more strategic. The fact that sighted people freak out and cause a
nuisance does not mean we have to follow suit.

Anyway, just some food for thought.

Joe

--
Musings of a Work in Progress:
www.JoeOrozco.com/

Twitter: @ScribblingJoe


-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via
NAGDU
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 12:38 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: Cindy Ray
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FW: [Njagdu] Blind woman and guide dog kicked off
American Airline flight

works. However, when someone is b eing threatened with being tossed off a
plane/train, whatever, that's not a time to expect a teaching moment from
the person. I am thinking that we need to be as nice as possible, but
sometimes even when we are, we get accused of not being, or we get told made
up stuff to try to shut us up. This I have a problem with. I think we need
to be nice at all times if we can, but when you are threatened with being
tossed from a plane somewhere and you have a schedule to meet, you feel very
much alone and very much frightened. I think it is very difficult to turn
something like that into a "teachable moment", so we need to find ways to do
those when we are not in the throws of aa threat.
Cindy Lou Ray
cindyray at gmail.com


-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe via NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 8:40 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Joe <jsoro620 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FW: [Njagdu] Blind woman and guide dog kicked off
American Airline flight

Buddy,

Yes, I have dealt with all manner of flight personnel. Please do not make
assumptions of my experiences.

I will candidly admit my level of tolerance has vastly differed depending on
the level of stupidity, but what I can also admit is that regardless of
their ignorance, a tempered approach has always fared better for me and the
situation. I have been in situations where sighted traveling companions have
reacted more vehemently to discrimination than myself, and while their
gestures are well-intentioned, they too often make the situation worse and
completely blow what could have been a good teaching moment for the
employees and for the people witnessing the incident. After all, laws change
policies, but they do not change minds. When we deal with Company X, we are
still dealing with people. How we choose to educate them will have a lasting
effect in how they view and treat blind people in the future. This is why I
would hope that when dealing with flight crews, Uber drivers or whomever, we
work hard at remaining polished and civil. Otherwise the only thing that
person will remember is a negative encounter and develop an animosity that
will tinge their encounters moving forward. Working the front lines in
customer service is no easy feat and can cause patience to wear thin in the
most inopportune moments.

Am I suggesting the lady was behaving in a belligerent manner? No. But,
that's just it. No one here knows firsthand what happened in that airplane.
When one feels "helpless, afraid and terrified" as the passenger described,
people behave differently than they might otherwise react, and we live in a
world where certain places cannot process such behavior without consequence.
It seems rather unusual to me that a flight crew would make the conclusion
that their presence in the aircraft would cause a danger to the flight and
jump to a last resort of removing someone from a flight, knowing full well
that their actions would be documented and later require justification. But,
maybe this crew was exceedingly misinformed. Maybe the passenger truly did
attempt all recourse, and the crew, especially the pilot, all  need to be
fired for being so blatantly unreasonable and off script from company
policies.

The parallel to a rape victim is haphazard and preposterous. There were far
more eloquent ways to make your point.

Michael,

My request for an agreement was to acknowledge we had only one side of the
story, not to justify the airline's actions. As you say, it was wrong if
they indeed had no justification for dismissing the passenger other than the
dog taking up too much room. We do not know if this was the case. The whole
bit about the first class exclusion is still a little confusing for me. I
agree with your position on bulkhead. I'm kind of curious why the passenger
would take a bulkhead seat assignment if the passenger knew her dog would
generally not fit in such a space? I don't know, but as you also point out,
we should be free to choose where we sit.

I agree with others that something ought to be done. No one should be
dismissed from a flight without repercussion. I take a dim view of NFB
resolutions, finding them mostly ineffective, but I will gladly help author
one if people feel that is our best course. I would rather see NAGDU play a
role in integrating itself into the training curriculum of airlines, bus
lines, and other forms of public transit where discrimination has been
displayed.

I'm sorry if it seems as though I am not supportive of a fellow member. I
believe in treating every case equally and fairly. Blind people have the
potential to be in the wrong as well. All I am stating is that we do not
have sufficient facts, and American Airlines can hardly be vilified for what
could amount to the lack of education on the part of one flight crew.
Regardless, I do hope that the passenger is treated fairly according to what
happened and properly compensated if warranted.

Respectfully,

Joe

--
Musings of a Work in Progress:
www.JoeOrozco.com/

Twitter: @ScribblingJoe

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Buddy Brannan via
NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 12:37 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Buddy Brannan
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FW: [Njagdu] Blind woman and guide dog kicked off
American Airline flight

Dude. Are you freakin kidding me? Apparently you've never run into overly
officious flight crews. I have, certainly not to this extent, but I have.
And 20-30 years ago, this behavior was definitely not unheard of, and in
similar fashion. Besides, Sue is definitely among the most competent and
well put together handlers out there. 

Next you'll be telling me that that girl wouldn't've got raped had she not
been dressed so provocatively. And yes, it's exactly the same kind of victim
blaming, thanks for asking.

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: buddy at brannan.name




> On Mar 16, 2017, at 11:48 AM, Joe Orozco via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
> 
> Can we agree we only have one side of the story here, and a limited 
> one at that? No, an airline should not kick someone off a flight, but 
> to claim danger to the flight, to me, suggests there could be more to 
> the story. I have seen fellow guide dog users become rather adamant in 
> their defense of their rights, and in a sensitive mode of 
> transportation such as airplanes, passengers with a variety of needs 
> should be mindful of the hyper sensitivity the crew is exercising in 
> prioritizing security. I am glad complaints are being filed. If wrong 
> is proven, the airline should do a lot more than issue an apology, but 
> let's remember we only have limited facts surrounding the incident.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> On 3/16/17, Buddy Brannan via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Apology hell! She wants assurances and proof that they've had 
>> training
on,
>> you know, things like what the ACAA says (how many ways can we 
>> violate
that
>> in one flight?). But really, Sue Martin should freakin' *own* her an 
>> airline. Just sayin. While this sort of behavior was more common 30 
>> years
or
>> so ago, ask Mike Hingson, just...wow.
>> 
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: 814-860-3194
>> Mobile: 814-431-0962
>> Email: buddy at brannan.name
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 16, 2017, at 11:06 AM, Chantel Cuddemi via NAGDU
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I saw that article on another list!
>>> How horrible! I am very disappointed .
>>> They owe her an apology for this.
>>> Chantel.
>>> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 10:58 AM Tracy Carcione via NAGDU 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I wonder, as airlines have started charging for sitting in the
bulkhead,
>>>> if
>>>> it will be harder to switch to sit there.  I don't care myself, but
some
>>>> do.
>>>> 
>>>> Tracy
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: NJAGDU [mailto:njagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ginger 
>>>> Kutsch via NJAGDU
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2017 9:41 PM
>>>> To: New Jersey Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Cc: Ginger Kutsch
>>>> Subject: [Njagdu] Blind woman and guide dog kicked off American 
>>>> Airline flight
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Blind woman and guide dog kicked off American Airline flight
>>>> 
>>>> Samantha York, WLBZ 7:24 PM. EDT March 13, 2017
>>>> 
>>>> Video at
>>>> 
>>>>
http://www.wlbz2.com/news/local/blind-woman-and-service-dog-kicked-off-ameri
>>>> can-airlines-flight/422219883
>>>>
<http://www.wlbz2.com/news/local/blind-woman-and-service-dog-kicked-off-amer
ican-airlines-flight/422219883>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> FRANKLIN, Maine (NEWS CENTER) -- After requesting a different seat 
>>>> -- Sue Martin, who is blind, and her service dog were kicked off of 
>>>> an
American
>>>> Airlines
>>>> 
>>>> flight -- she said the pilot claimed she was a "danger to the flight".
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sue Martin of Franklin has had her seeing eye dog, Quan, for the 
>>>> past year.
>>>> She depends on him to navigate through her daily life. Martin had 
>>>> never run
>>>> 
>>>> into an incident like this before her most recent trip to San Diego.
>>>> There
>>>> were several connecting flights -- all of which went smoothly until 
>>>> her connector
>>>> 
>>>> flight from Washington DC to Dallas. She requested a different seat 
>>>> on the aircraft after she saw it would not accommodate her service 
>>>> dog. "There was not enough room for a 75 pound dog and three adult 
>>>> humans" Martin said.The two were asked to step off of the plane 
>>>> after several requests were
made
>>>> to
>>>> change seats. "The man said, you have to leave the plane -- I asked 
>>>> him why and he said the crew had decided I was a danger to the 
>>>> flight" Martin said.
>>>> "I've
>>>> 
>>>> never had anything happen like this before". Martin claims there 
>>>> was no altercation between she and the flight attendants and that 
>>>> she couldn't understand why it escalated the way it did.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> She was traveling with her husband as well -- they had to re-book 
>>>> their flight with a completely different airline at a different 
>>>> airport. "I stood up, reached for Quan's harness and almost began 
>>>> to cry -- this is just so far out of the realm of anything I have 
>>>> ever experienced in all my
years
>>>> of
>>>> travel" Martin said. "I felt helpless, I felt afraid, I was terrified.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Martin filed three separate complaints with the Airline -- it says 
>>>> it will be investigating the matter. NEWS CENTER reached out to the 
>>>> airline as well, a spokesperson said "We take all disability 
>>>> complaints very seriously, and are thoroughly investigating these 
>>>> allegations".
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Martin stated she's worried about traveling with the airline in the
>>>> future,
>>>> especially if she is alone.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> "Some reassurance that American will better train its personnel is the
>>>> only
>>>> way I will feel comfortable getting on another American Airlines
flight"
>>>> Martin said. "I mean if they can kick a blind person off a plane whose
>>>> dog
>>>> is perfectly behaved, what can they do next? I don't know".
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
>> 
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> 
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