[NAGDU] Softer Dogs?

Tue Mar 21 23:34:55 UTC 2017

I remember riding in an elevator with a couple of other dog guide users at a
convention. My dog started sniffing at one of the other dogs, I said no
firmly a couple times and he didn't respond like I'd like so I picked up his
leash and jangled his collar a bit and he immediately focused again and that
was the end of it. One of the other dog users said something to the effect
of "What kind of a correction was that, that was no correction!" I can't
remember if I actually answered the person or just left it alone, but I know
I thought to myself, well that's all that was needed. He's a very soft dog,
he doesn't respond to hard leash corrections. His trainer was into positive
reinforcement so that's how he was trained and it seems to work for him just
fine. I can't remember ever having to give him a hard leash correction in
the 9 years that I have worked with him. I also don't use a clicker, the
trainer wasn't using them at the time either. I think we just have to
remember that all dogs aren't the same, they have different personalities
and different needs. There are several training techniques that if done
correctly are very effective, too. The best thing we can do is apply what we
are told at the school by the trainer that trained our dogs and go from
there. If we find we need to add something, then hopefully, we do it with
the dog's best interests in mind and utilize their strengths as best as we
can.

Charlene

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The Pawpower Pack
via NAGDU
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 5:52 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: The Pawpower Pack <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Softer Dogs?

Cinndy, 
I think that using language like "a slave to the clicker"does a disservice
to those and is pretty disrespectful of, people who use this method. 
I have clicker trained my last 4 working dogs, and am no more a "slave"  to
my clicker than I imagine you are to your correction collars.  
You have stated you use corrections sometimes, I use treats sometimes.  
There are people who can and do use any method poorly, but that is not the
fault of the method.  
I can't remember the last time I carried around a clicker and food for
Soleil, who is 6 and who works great daily without them. 

 Rox and the kitchen Bitches: 
Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
Pawpower4me at gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 21, 2017, at 1:30 PM, Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I have certainly noted a change to click and treat. When I ot my first
dog,
> there were not treats given at all. That gradually changed. I think at
some
> level soft dogs are created by soft discipline, and I think the "old
school"
> is often better. I, like you, Joe, am not mean or really rough, though
I've
> been accused of it. The animal rights folks create headaches for us for
sure
> because many of them don't even think the dogs should be doing this work.
> However, now there is a lot more leaning toward click and treat or treat;
I
> still do not do it. I do what I must at the school; then I go home and do
> what I always did and it works. If something is working well that I was
> taught during the training, I would retain it, of course. But I think that
I
> would prefer not to be a slave to clickers and treats.
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 11:35 AM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Joe Orozco <jsoro620 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Softer Dogs?
> 
> Hello,
> 
> The recent thread on obedience got me thinking about the way it feels as
> though guide dog schools have grown softer in their approach to
correction.
> 
> I received Gator from The Seeing Eye in 2004. I trained under Pete
Jackson,
> a no nonsense instructor who worked very hard at understanding where the
> canine was coming from but not cutting any slack where a hard correction
was
> warranted. High collars, while not eagerly encouraged, were a standard
> recommendation.
> 
> I went back to TSE in 2015 and received Matthew. The training atmosphere
was
> noticeably more relaxed where corrections were concerned. If high collars
> were mentioned at all, it was probably because I asked about it. It felt
as
> though there was a greater lean toward clickers and treats.
> 
> So, my question: For those of you who have handled dogs for a while, have
> you noticed a similar trend, and if so, how have you adjusted your own
> handling practices? I sometimes feel mean for running a tight ship with
> Matthew, but I feel in some ways as though my first guide dog instruction
> set the mood for my discipline philosophy moving forward. I was never one
to
> be unnecessarily aggressive. It looks publically awkward, and I think such
> tactics have diminishing returns.
> Yet, I am quick to leash correct for what may otherwise be considered
small
> infractions. How much of your own philosophy do you retain after bringing
> your guide dog home?
> 
> Thanks for any ponderings on the subject.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Joe
> 
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