[NAGDU] Risk Assessment Scale, Absolutely No School Bashing contained within,
Sunshine
sunshine81780 at att.net
Mon May 22 16:31:38 UTC 2017
Wow, you scored 40! That's good. I didn't score that high! Mine was 25.
----- Original Message -----
From: Heather Bird via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Date: Monday, May 22, 2017 9:01 am
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Risk Assessment Scale, Absolutely No School Bashing contained within,
>
>
> Hi, Sunshine. I am re posting it below so yew can see the scale.
> Perhaps that message slipped by in all of the heavy list traffic lately.
> Yes, I came up with it myself, but being that I am no expert and no
> professional, it is doubtless incomplete in some respects. For instance
> since posting it, I thought of a few other factors. For instance, being
> a person of size, I.E. drastically overweight should be grouped as a
> relevant factor along something like belonging to a racial minority.
> Living in poverty especially in a less than safe neighborhood should be
> grouped along with factors such as working in unsafe neighborhoods.
> Also, having a mental health disorder, whether or not you take
> medications, whether or not you receive counseling should be listed as
> factors. I would put things like bi-polar or sczitsafrania as a 5 factor
> and things like PTSAID, Major depression or TBI as a 3 point item, and
> things like seasonal affective disorder or post partum depression as a 1
> factor. So, I would welcome any feedback so as to refine this tool. I
> think I might also run it by a few blind social workers and
> psychologests and see what they think about the factors and the point
> values that I have come up with. So, please see below for the post in
> its entirity.
>
>
> Risk Assessment Scale, Absolutely No School Bashing contained within,
> Hi, Brenda and list. Well, I want to talk about low and high risks
> related to ownership policies. I am not going to bash any school or to
> debate whether
> ownership is a deal breaker issue, because for some people it is and for
> some it is not. What I want to do is to give you a rough outline of a
> scale you
> can use to look at how the situation of a theoretical handler might
> increase or decrease their risk for an issue of repossession of a guide
> taking place.
> You need not feel compelled to share your answers with the list, but it
> might be helpful to you or to other listers.
>
> So, let's assume a few things and then consider them. A. You are a
> perfect handler, who receives the perfect dog, from a school who is
> always fair. In
> that case, ownership would matter only in the theoretical realm of
> blindness philosophy, but logistically it wouldn't make any difference
> to the team.
> However, no handler, dog, team or school is perfect. Next scenario. B.
> You are a great handler with a dog from a not very reasonable school.
> There is
> some risk, but not too much if the handler plays by the rules. C. You
> are not a very competent or compliant handler, but your school is also
> not a very
> vigilant or punitive school, and so, no issues related to repossession
> of the dog are likely to arise. Finally, D. You are a substandard
> handler from a
> very aware and parental school. You are almost certain to encounter
> trouble. . As no school is perfect, every single school will on occasion
> be unfair
> to a handler, just as at every school there will be some handlers who
> screw up, that is life and the law of averages. I know of at least one
> handler from
> the following schools who has shared with me that they have had a dog
> taken back, where, if they are being truthful, I absolutely feel that
> the school
> was in the wrong, in whole or in part: GDB, GEB, Fidelco, GDD, GDF, UGDA
> (note, no longer exists) GDT. I know of at least one case of a handler
> engaging
> in handling and treatment of the dog that I do think should have
> warranted repossession of the dog, again, if they were being truthful,
> in which the school
> did nothing at the following schools: GEB, GDF, GDB, GDD, Eye Dog
> Foundation, UGDA (no longer exists) and Freedom Guide Dogs. Out of all
> of the schools
> in the country I would recommend the Seeing Eye as your absolute best
> bet for avoiding the pitfalls that can come from a school's ownership
> policies. I
> would say that Freedom is also a fairly low risk. I would say that
> Fidelco and GDB would be one of your highest risk schools and all of the
> rest fall somewhere
> in the middle of the risk spectrum in terms of their history of
> repossessing dogs for both valid and invalid reasons. These are not at
> all quality statements
> regarding the worth of either the dogs or the training programs. I am
> simply speaking to the issue of likelihood of a dog being removed from
> the handler's
> care by the school. But, it is very important that you first figure out
> how much of a risk you face for an ownership policy to become
> troublesome for you
> as a handler. See below:
>
> I would suggest that you prioritize or not, the aspect of the ownership
> policy in your decision making process based on how great of a risk you
> face for
> potentially upsetting your school. Now, I am not talking about harming,
> neglecting, beating or otherwise misusing or mistreating the dog, as A.
> you would
> not do that, and B. those would be reasonable grounds for your dog to be
> taken away. What I am talking about are the factors that often cause
> schools to
> take punitive action. Here is a list that is by no means exhaustive. See
> how many you check off, and then decide based upon that how important an
> ownership
> policy is for you in your personal situations. Each item has a number
> after it. Add up your points at the end and calculate your score, then
> look at the
> rough idea scoring guide. In each group of three, please only select one
> option, or if you don't ever fit any of those categories, then put down
> a zero.
> I will give you my score at the end. These are only examples and not at
> all value judgements about you or any other lister. They are guidelines
> based on
> what some schools have the potential to freak out about. Every school is
> different, every trainer or administrator is different, and schools can
> change
> over time improving or declining, so, keep that in mind.
>
> A.
>
> You intend to feed your dog a raw diet, either the BARF method or the
> prey model diet, 5,
>
> You intend to feed your dog a home cooked diet composed of cooked meat,
> eggs, grains and or vegetables and vitamin supplements, 3,
>
> You intend to switch your dog off of the school's brand to an organic,
> human grade or grain free dry dog food, 1,
>
> B.
>
> You intend to cross train your dog to perform tasks to mitigate a
> secondary disability that you might have such as adding medical alert
> tasks, psychiatric
> service, etc, 5,
>
> You intend to add extensive additional training to enhance your guide
> dog's work, clicker training, target training, specialized find
> commands, running
> with your dog, retrieval tasks, etc, 3,
>
> You intend to make some minor modifications to your dog's command
> repertoire, such as adding a command to turn about 180 degrees, to find
> and distinguish
> between words such as elevator, stairs and escalator, some mild hand
> targeting to aid in off-leash recall, etc, 1,
>
> C.
>
> You intend to engage in high intensity dog sports with your dog such as
> skijuring, agility trials, tracking or hunting or water rescue trials,
> etc, 5,
>
>
> You intend to engage in some moderate intensity dog sports with your
> guide such as, fly ball, obedience trials, cross country skiing, walking
> marathons
> or half marathons with your dog, 3,
>
> You intend to engage in mild sports with your dog, hiking, participation
> in walks such as 5Ks and 10ks, 1,
>
> D.
>
> You intend to do tyders before getting any vaccines for your dog, to use
> only essential oils for flee and tick preventative, to utilize herbal
> supplements
> for your dog, or to utilize the services of a veterinary acupuncturist, 5,
>
> You intend to use conventional flee and tick preventative in the warm
> months and essential oils for control in the cold months, to use some
> nutritional,
> but not herbal supplements, to use tyders for some vaccines, to minimize
> the use of antibiotics in many situations, you use the services of an
> accupressurist,
> but not an acupuncturist, 3,
>
> You intend to give all vaccines but to spread them out to separate
> visits, you will give flee and tick preventative year round, but you
> will separate it
> from the heart worm preventative by one week, you use organic grooming
> products, you engage in canine massage,
>
> E.
>
> You order and use an alternative harness such as one sold by On the Go
> or Paw Power Creations, switch from a chain collar to a pinch collar or
> a simple
> buckle collar, you have your dog where a light weight back pack to carry
> some of their own supplies, you dress your dog up in a full on costume
> for Halloween,
> 5,
>
> You decline the booties the school issues and use Mushers' Secret
> instead, you use the school's harness but add harness signs and pouches,
> you switch from
> a chain collar to a toggle collar or a martingale collar, you put
> t-shirts and other things on your dog to help remote causes and fund
> raisers important
> to you, 3,
>
> You regularly put decorative bandanas on your dog, you use a designer
> leash rather than the school's leash, you get a really flashy fun collar
> tag, 1,
>
>
> F.
>
> You regularly participate in marches, protests, march in gay pride
> parades or other potentially controversial demonstrations, such as right
> to life or
> right to choose, 5,
>
> You occasionally attend marches and protests, but they are not frequent
> and are on the tame to moderate side, 3,
>
> You rarely, but sometimes attend controversial lectures, art
> exhibitions, seminars, etc, 1,
>
> G.
>
> You have a spouse, adult parent or child living with you who has
> intensive special needs which can sometimes include violent outbursts or
> intense bouts
> of yelling or screaming, even if you have safe plans and management
> stratagies to use, 5,
>
> You have a very hecktic life with one or more individuals in it who can
> become disruptive or potentially upsetting to your dog, 3,
>
> You occasionally visit relatives or cliants who might have some of the
> challenges described in the first two options, 1,
>
> H.
>
> You belong to a minority group that often faces descrimination, LGBTQ,
> especially trans gendered individuals, individual with a green card but
> not full
> citizenship in the United States, are a member of a polyamerous
> relationship, etc, you belong to a highly controversial organization or
> political party,
> in which you working your dog might be noticed in public or in
> publicity, such as the KKK, the communist party, the socialist party,
> the Nazi party, (yes,
> these extremely contraversicial political parties are legally allowed to
> exist and legally allowed to peacefully demonstrate, so I mention it,
> because
> the blind are not universaly "good" "inocent" or "well behaved" as many
> sighted steroytypes would portray us) 5,
>
> You are a member of a less controversial minority group, seventh day
> Adventist, strict Islam, orthodox Judaism, racial minority, etc, you
> belong to a group
> that your school is moderately likely to object to your being publicly
> engaged with while working your dog, PETA, Green Peace, the Tea Party,
> etc, , the
> occupy movement, 3,
>
> You belong to some organizations which your school might object to your
> appearing in the literature or promotional materials with your dog, such
> as, NFB,
> ACB, La Leche League, Gay Strait Alliance, Black Lives Matter, etc, 1,
>
> I.
>
> You evaluate your schools advice, conduct research, and often make
> decisions that contradict the advice given in lectures, such as opting
> to give squeak
> toys, with close supervision, you will not give raw hide, but you think
> that elk antlers are acceptable, you wish to use another heart worm
> preventative
> than what the school gives you, you ignore advice not to play tug with
> your dog, never to take them to a dog park, never ever to give your dog
> people food,
> etc, and if your school challenged you, you would counter, respectfully,
> with research that supports your choice and expect to be able to have a
> reasonable
> and civil debate about the issue, and would most likely continue with
> your practice if you truly felt that you were in the right, 5,
>
> You occasionally do something different from what your school told you
> to do, but it is not all across the board and if your school asked you
> to stop,
> yew would be willing to do so, but you would expect to be heard out as
> to your reasoning and not to be penalized, 3,
>
> You rarely do things at odds with your schools advice, but you do not
> follow their guide lines to the letter and if asked to comply you would
> do so right
> away and with apologies to the school, 1,
>
> J.
>
> You take your dog to very stressful environments, thoughtfully,
> carefully and knowledgeably, such as parades, amusement parks, Time
> Square on New Years,
> brothels in places where this is legal, to watch a space shuttle launch,
> fire works displays at a distance, or at the event with ear protection
> for the
> dog, hiking in truly remote wilderness areas, white water rafting, 5,
>
> You take your dog into situations such as dangerous inner city
> neighborhoods, crowded festivals, to dog shows as a spectator, into
> jails or psychiatric
> wards, rock concerts, strip clubs, adult book or toy storeseaetc, 3,
>
> You take your dog to, cruise ships, musical theater performances with
> very loud music, theater performances with fake violence, gun shots,
> smoke and strobe
> light effects, bars, especially controversial bars such as gay bars or
> biker bars, 1,
>
> There are ten groups, so your maximum score could be 50, your minimum
> score could be 0, a low risk person might have a score of around 10 to
> 20, a very,
> very low risk would be a score of 0 to 10. A moderate risk handler might
> have a score of 20 to 35 and a high risk handler might have a score of
> 35 to 50.
> My score is 40. What puts me into this category? Things like having a
> spouse with PTSAID who is never violent but who can yell a lot and rarely
> engages in
> behaviors like hitting a wall or slamming a door, using a harness made
> by On The Go, not my school's harness, feeding a raw diet, being a woman
> who unashamedly
> breastfeeds in public with my guide laying at my feet, teaching
> extensive additional commands, although not cross training my dog for
> other disabilities,
> walking 5ks with my dog and fully intending to acclimatize her and I and
> try to walk a marathon or half marathon with her, marching in protests,
> attending
> parades or a fireworks display from an increased distance, and also with
> ear protection for the dog, and so on.
>
> For me personally, an ownership policy is one of the most important
> issues. If you scored 50? Then not considering ownership would be truly
> foolish, but
> that is a true extreme, and I highly doubt that you would score a 50. If
> you score a 0, then rest assured that your risk is virtually
> non-existent, and
> aside from any philosophical objections you might have, the functional
> reality for you makes ownership a non-issue. Again, I highly doubt that
> you scored
> a 0. You can do this on your own, think about your score, and certainly
> any other factors I may have missed, then you can decide for you
> personally whether
> the ownership is a thing or not, and either way, you must do what is
> right for you. So, I'm not debating the ownership question. For me
> personally it is
> supremely important, it might also wind up being a crucial point for
> you, or it might be a virtual non-issue. However, you should not rule it
> out as a
> potentially crucial factor until and unless you have assessed your risk
> for encountering difficulties with your school based on who you are, how
> you live,
> what you do, how you handle your dog, what challenges you face, etc.
>
> I hope twas helpful.
>
>
> On 5/22/2017 9:45 AM, Sunshine via NAGDU wrote:
> > I never really had a concern regarding ownership. However, if ownership is really important to folks, then they should select schools that offer that option. I've not ever had a problem with schools removing my guides, but at one school, I filled out ownership papers after two years the second time around. However, I knew that no one would remove my guide's. I wish I had your orginal post, Heather, as it would be interesting to see where I score! Smiles! It looks like a great tool. Did you formulate this survey yourself? Smiles!
> >
> > Seeing Eye is a great school, was my first and it will always be in my heart. I've only been to one other school, a very good one, but TSE truly is where I would like to be. My other school is good and I have no complaints, but TSE is definitely in my blood!
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Lisa via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Date: Monday, May 22, 2017 8:33 am
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Risk Assessment Scale, Absolutely No School Bashing contained within,
> >
> >>
> >> Hi Heather,
> >>
> >>
> >> wow, thanks so much for sharing this.
> >>
> >> I'm in Germany and theoretically, this debate about ownership is not
> >> important for me because over here things are handled very differently
> >> in the guide dog system but I still answered the questions. I got only a
> >> 20. I was a bit surprised, I had expected more. But these questions are
> >> so important to understand how much of an issue ownership policies can
> >> be for some people including myself.
> >>
> >> I would feel seriously limited in handling my dog if I knew my school
> >> would react to things like teaching him additional tasks or taking him
> >> to this or that event negatively.
> >>
> >>
> >> Lisa
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Am 22.05.2017 um 13:56 schrieb margo Downey via NAGDU:
> >>> I scored 41.
> >>>
> >>> Margo and Isis
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie Johnson
> >>> via NAGDU
> >>> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2017 7:00 AM
> >>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >>> Cc: Julie Johnson
> >>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Risk Assessment Scale, Absolutely No School Bashing
> >>> contained within,
> >>>
> >>> I love this tool! Thanks so much for creating and sharing it! I score in
> >>> the mid to upper 20's'''x's early and I haven't finished my first
> >>> cup of coffee so math is not my strong suit right now. ininsmile* I'm
> >>> also a long, long way from thinking about a new dog and whether or not I'll
> >>> attend a program for that dog.
> >>>
> >>> Anyway, I did want to add one thought to this excellent tool. Consider how
> >>> your life might change to include things that you do not currently
> >>> participate in. I'm thinking in particular about sporting events, marches,
> >>> concerts, bars etc. If you are a young person living at home or just
> >>> getting ready to go off to college, your life can look very different than
> >>> it does now in just a couple of years. I live in a very small town that
> >>> simply does not have some of these things as an option for me to
> >>> participate in. I have no plans of moving, but life happens.
> >>> Might I want to do some of these things in the future? Perhaps, and I do
> >>> think I'd like to have the option of working my dog if I felt it
> >>> appropriate.
> >>>
> >>> Julie
> >>> http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 5/22/2017 1:06 AM, Daryl via NAGDU wrote:
> >>>> This is a very thorough assessment tool. Depending on how I choose to
> >>>> view it, my score would probably be somewhere between 26 and 30. I'm
> >>>> half asleep, so my math could be wrong. In any case, it does tell me
> >>>> the type of school I would need to attend and that ownership does need
> >>>> to be a consideration with a successor dog. concom) thank you for this
> >>>> very thorough tool. concom)
> >>>>
> >>>> On May 21, 2017 10:31:46 PM MDT, Heather Bird via NAGDU
> >>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>> Hi, Brenda and list. Well, I want to talk about low and high
> >>>>> risks related to ownership policies. I am not going to bash any
> >>>>> school or to debate whether ownership is a deal breaker issue,
> >>>>> because for some people it is and for some it is not. What I want to
> >>>>> do is to give you a
> >>>>>
> >>>>> rough outline of a scale you can use to look at how the situation of
> >>>>> a theoretical handler might increase or decrease their risk for an
> >>>>> issue of repossession of a guide taking place. You need not feel
> >>>>> compelled to
> >>>>>
> >>>>> share your answers with the list, but it might be helpful to you or
> >>>>> to other listers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So, let's assume a few things and then consider them. A. You are a
> >>>>> perfect handler, who receives the perfect dog, from a school who is
> >>>>> always fair. In that case, ownership would matter only in the
> >>>>> theoretical realm of blindness philosophy, but logistically it
> >>>>> wouldn't
> >>>>>
> >>>>> make any difference to the team. However, no handler, dog, team or
> >>>>> school is perfect. Next scenario. B. You are a great handler with a
> >>>>> dog
> >>>>>
> >>>> >from a not very reasonable school. There is some risk, but not too
> >>>>> much
> >>>>> if the handler plays by the rules. C. You are not a very competent or
> >>>>> compliant handler, but your school is also not a very vigilant or
> >>>>> punitive school, and so, no issues related to repossession of the dog
> >>>>> are likely to arise. Finally, D. You are a substandard handler from a
> >>>>> very aware and parental school. You are almost certain to encounter
> >>>>> trouble. . As no school is perfect, every single school will on
> >>>>> occasion be unfair to a handler, just as at every school there will
> >>>>> be some handlers who screw up, that is life and the law of averages.
> >>>>> I know of at least one handler from the following schools who has
> >>>>> shared with me that they have had a dog taken back, where, if they
> >>>>> are being truthful,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I absolutely feel that the school was in the wrong, in whole or in
> >>>>> part:
> >>>>> GDB, GEB, Fidelco, GDD, GDF, UGDA (note, no longer exists) GDT. I
> >>>>> know of at least one case of a handler engaging in handling and
> >>>>> treatment of
> >>>>>
> >>>>> the dog that I do think should have warranted repossession of the
> >>>>> dog, again, if they were being truthful, in which the school did
> >>>>> nothing at the following schools: GEB, GDF, GDB, GDD, Eye Dog
> >>>>> Foundation, UGDA (no
> >>>>>
> >>>>> longer exists) and Freedom Guide Dogs. Out of all of the schools in
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>
> >>>>> country I would recommend the Seeing Eye as your absolute best bet
> >>>>> for avoiding the pitfalls that can come from a school's ownership
> >>> policies.
> >>>>> I would say that Freedom is also a fairly low risk. I would say that
> >>>>> Fidelco and GDB would be one of your highest risk schools and all of
> >>>>> the rest fall somewhere in the middle of the risk spectrum in terms
> >>>>> of their history of repossessing dogs for both valid and invalid
> >>>>> reasons. These are not at all quality statements regarding the worth
> >>>>> of either the dogs or the training programs. I am simply speaking to
> >>>>> the issue of likelihood of a dog being removed from the handler's
> >>>>> care by the school.
> >>>>> But, it is very important that you first figure out how much of a
> >>>>> risk you face for an ownership policy to become troublesome for you
> >>>>> as a handler. See below:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I would suggest that you prioritize or not, the aspect of the
> >>>>> ownership
> >>>>>
> >>>>> policy in your decision making process based on how great of a risk
> >>>>> you
> >>>>>
> >>>>> face for potentially upsetting your school. Now, I am not talking
> >>>>> about
> >>>>>
> >>>>> harming, neglecting, beating or otherwise misusing or mistreating the
> >>>>> dog, as A. you would not do that, and B. those would be reasonable
> >>>>> grounds for your dog to be taken away. What I am talking about are
> >>>>> the factors that often cause schools to take punitive action. Here is
> >>>>> a list that is by no means exhaustive. See how many you check off,
> >>>>> and then decide based upon that how important an ownership policy is
> >>>>> for you in your personal situations. Each item has a number after it.
> >>>>> Add up your points at the end and calculate your score, then look at
> >>>>> the rough idea
> >>>>>
> >>>>> scoring guide. In each group of three, please only select one option,
> >>>>> or if you don't ever fit any of those categories, then put down a
> >>>>> zero. I will give you my score at the end. These are only examples
> >>>>> and not at all value judgements about you or any other lister. They
> >>>>> are guidelines
> >>>>>
> >>>>> based on what some schools have the potential to freak out about.
> >>>>> Every
> >>>>>
> >>>>> school is different, every trainer or administrator is different, and
> >>>>> schools can change over time improving or declining, so, keep that in
> >>>>> mind.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You intend to feed your dog a raw diet, either the BARF method or the
> >>>>> prey model diet, 5,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You intend to feed your dog a home cooked diet composed of cooked
> >>>>> meat,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> eggs, grains and or vegetables and vitamin supplements, 3,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You intend to switch your dog off of the school's brand to an
> >>>>> organic, human grade or grain free dry dog food, 1,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> B.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You intend to cross train your dog to perform tasks to mitigate a
> >>>>> secondary disability that you might have such as adding medical alert
> >>>>> tasks, psychiatric service, etc, 5,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You intend to add extensive additional training to enhance your guide
> >>>>> dog's work, clicker training, target training, specialized find
> >>>>> commands, running with your dog, retrieval tasks, etc, 3,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You intend to make some minor modifications to your dog's command
> >>>>> repertoire, such as adding a command to turn about 180 degrees, to
> >>>>> find
> >>>>>
> >>>>> and distinguish between words such as elevator, stairs and escalator,
> >>>>> some mild hand targeting to aid in off-leash recall, etc, 1,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> C.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You intend to engage in high intensity dog sports with your dog such
> >>>>> as
> >>>>>
> >>>>> skijuring, agility trials, tracking or hunting or water rescue
> >>>>> trials, etc, 5,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You intend to engage in some moderate intensity dog sports with your
> >>>>> guide such as, fly ball, obedience trials, cross country skiing,
> >>>>> walking marathons or half marathons with your dog, 3,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You intend to engage in mild sports with your dog, hiking,
> >>>>> participation in walks such as 5Ks and 10ks, 1,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> D.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You intend to do tyders before getting any vaccines for your dog, to
> >>>>> use only essential oils for flee and tick preventative, to utilize
> >>>>> herbal supplements for your dog, or to utilize the services of a
> >>>>> veterinary acupuncturist, 5,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You intend to use conventional flee and tick preventative in the warm
> >>>>> months and essential oils for control in the cold months, to use some
> >>>>> nutritional, but not herbal supplements, to use tyders for some
> >>>>> vaccines, to minimize the use of antibiotics in many situations, you
> >>>>> use the services of an accupressurist, but not an acupuncturist, 3,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You intend to give all vaccines but to spread them out to separate
> >>>>> visits, you will give flee and tick preventative year round, but you
> >>>>> will separate it from the heart worm preventative by one week, you
> >>>>> use organic grooming products, you engage in canine massage,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> E.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You order and use an alternative harness such as one sold by On the
> >>>>> Go or Paw Power Creations, switch from a chain collar to a pinch
> >>>>> collar or
> >>>>>
> >>>>> a simple buckle collar, you have your dog where a light weight back
> >>>>> pack to carry some of their own supplies, you dress your dog up in a
> >>>>> full on
> >>>>>
> >>>>> costume for Halloween, 5,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You decline the booties the school issues and use Mushers' Secret
> >>>>> instead, you use the school's harness but add harness signs and
> >>>>> pouches, you switch from a chain collar to a toggle collar or a
> >>>>> martingale collar, you put t-shirts and other things on your dog to
> >>>>> help remote causes and fund raisers important to you, 3,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You regularly put decorative bandanas on your dog, you use a designer
> >>>>> leash rather than the school's leash, you get a really flashy fun
> >>>>> collar tag, 1,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> F.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You regularly participate in marches, protests, march in gay pride
> >>>>> parades or other potentially controversial demonstrations, such as
> >>>>> right to life or right to choose, 5,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You occasionally attend marches and protests, but they are not
> >>>>> frequent
> >>>>>
> >>>>> and are on the tame to moderate side, 3,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You rarely, but sometimes attend controversial lectures, art
> >>>>> exhibitions, seminars, etc, 1,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> G.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You have a spouse, adult parent or child living with you who has
> >>>>> intensive special needs which can sometimes include violent outbursts
> >>>>> or intense bouts of yelling or screaming, even if you have safe plans
> >>>>> and management stratagies to use, 5,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You have a very hecktic life with one or more individuals in it who
> >>>>> can
> >>>>>
> >>>>> become disruptive or potentially upsetting to your dog, 3,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You occasionally visit relatives or cliants who might have some of
> >>>>> the challenges described in the first two options, 1,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> H.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You belong to a minority group that often faces descrimination,
> >>>>> LGBTQ, especially trans gendered individuals, individual with a green
> >>>>> card but
> >>>>>
> >>>>> not full citizenship in the United States, are a member of a
> >>>>> polyamerous relationship, etc, you belong to a highly controversial
> >>>>> organization or
> >>>>>
> >>>>> political party, in which you working your dog might be noticed in
> >>>>> public or in publicity, such as the KKK, the communist party, the
> >>>>> socialist party, the Nazi party, (yes, these extremely
> >>>>> contraversicial political parties are legally allowed to exist and
> >>>>> legally allowed to peacefully demonstrate, so I mention it, because
> >>>>> the blind are not universaly "good" "inocent" or "well behaved" as
> >>>>> many sighted steroytypes would portray us) 5,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You are a member of a less controversial minority group, seventh day
> >>>>> Adventist, strict Islam, orthodox Judaism, racial minority, etc, you
> >>>>> belong to a group that your school is moderately likely to object to
> >>>>> your being publicly engaged with while working your dog, PETA, Green
> >>>>> Peace, the Tea Party, etc, , the occupy movement, 3,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You belong to some organizations which your school might object to
> >>>>> your
> >>>>>
> >>>>> appearing in the literature or promotional materials with your dog,
> >>>>> such as, NFB, ACB, La Leche League, Gay Strait Alliance, Black Lives
> >>>>> Matter,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> etc, 1,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You evaluate your schools advice, conduct research, and often make
> >>>>> decisions that contradict the advice given in lectures, such as
> >>>>> opting to give squeak toys, with close supervision, you will not give
> >>>>> raw hide, but you think that elk antlers are acceptable, you wish to
> >>>>> use another heart worm preventative than what the school gives you,
> >>>>> you ignore advice not to play tug with your dog, never to take them
> >>>>> to a dog park,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> never ever to give your dog people food, etc, and if your school
> >>>>> challenged you, you would counter, respectfully, with research that
> >>>>> supports your choice and expect to be able to have a reasonable and
> >>>>> civil debate about the issue, and would most likely continue with
> >>>>> your practice if you truly felt that you were in the right, 5,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You occasionally do something different from what your school told
> >>>>> you to do, but it is not all across the board and if your school
> >>>>> asked you to stop, yew would be willing to do so, but you would
> >>>>> expect to be heard out as to your reasoning and not to be penalized,
> >>>>> 3,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You rarely do things at odds with your schools advice, but you do not
> >>>>> follow their guide lines to the letter and if asked to comply you
> >>>>> would
> >>>>>
> >>>>> do so right away and with apologies to the school, 1,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> J.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You take your dog to very stressful environments, thoughtfully,
> >>>>> carefully and knowledgeably, such as parades, amusement parks, Time
> >>>>> Square on New Years, brothels in places where this is legal, to watch
> >>>>> a
> >>>>>
> >>>>> space shuttle launch, fire works displays at a distance, or at the
> >>>>> event with ear protection for the dog, hiking in truly remote
> >>>>> wilderness areas, white water rafting, 5,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You take your dog into situations such as dangerous inner city
> >>>>> neighborhoods, crowded festivals, to dog shows as a spectator, into
> >>>>> jails or psychiatric wards, rock concerts, strip clubs, adult book or
> >>>>> toy storeseaetc, 3,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You take your dog to, cruise ships, musical theater performances with
> >>>>> very loud music, theater performances with fake violence, gun shots,
> >>>>> smoke and strobe light effects, bars, especially controversial bars
> >>>>> such as gay bars or biker bars, 1,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There are ten groups, so your maximum score could be 50, your minimum
> >>>>> score could be 0, a low risk person might have a score of around 10
> >>>>> to 20, a very, very low risk would be a score of 0 to 10. A moderate
> >>>>> risk handler might have a score of 20 to 35 and a high risk handler
> >>>>> might have a score of 35 to 50. My score is 40. What puts me into
> >>>>> this category? Things like having a spouse with PTSAID who is never
> >>>>> violent but who can yell a lot and rarely engages in behaviors like
> >>>>> hitting a wall or slamming a door, using a harness made by On The Go,
> >>>>> not my school's harness, feeding a raw diet, being a woman who
> >>>>> unashamedly breastfeeds in public with my guide laying at my feet,
> >>>>> teaching extensive additional commands, although not cross training
> >>>>> my dog for other disabilities, walking 5ks with my dog and fully
> >>>>> intending to acclimatize her and I and try to walk a marathon or half
> >>>>> marathon with her, marching in protests,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> attending parades or a fireworks display from an increased distance,
> >>>>> and also with ear protection for the dog, and so on.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For me personally, an ownership policy is one of the most important
> >>>>> issues. If you scored 50? Then not considering ownership would be
> >>>>> truly
> >>>>>
> >>>>> foolish, but that is a true extreme, and I highly doubt that you
> >>>>> would score a 50. If you score a 0, then rest assured that your risk
> >>>>> is virtually non-existent, and aside from any philosophical
> >>>>> objections you
> >>>>>
> >>>>> might have, the functional reality for you makes ownership a non-issue.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Again, I highly doubt that you scored a 0. You can do this on your
> >>>>> own,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> think about your score, and certainly any other factors I may have
> >>>>> missed, then you can decide for you personally whether the ownership
> >>>>> is
> >>>>>
> >>>>> a thing or not, and either way, you must do what is right for you.
> >>>>> So, I'm not debating the ownership question. For me personally it is
> >>>>> supremely important, it might also wind up being a crucial point for
> >>>>> you, or it might be a virtual non-issue. However, you should not rule
> >>>>> it out as a potentially crucial factor until and unless you have
> >>>>> assessed your risk for encountering difficulties with your school
> >>>>> based on who you are, how you live, what you do, how you handle your
> >>>>> dog, what challenges you face, etc.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I hope twas helpful.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 5/19/2017 12:36 PM, Brenda via NAGDU wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hello List,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> this week my pet dog Sadie passed over the rainbow bridge. She was
> >>>>> 15
> >>>>>> years old and we had a wonderful life together. She is playing with
> >>>>>> her cat sisters who have gone before her. I will miss her and am
> >>>>> still
> >>>>>> sad, but she is no longer suffering so I'm at peace.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As my vision waned over the years, I became more and more interested
> >>>>>> in getting a guide dog, but sadie who was an APL rescue didn't like
> >>>>>> other dogs. I did get O&m training to maintain my independence and
> >>>>>> have been using my skills and now I am ready to apply for a guide.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have been surfing the guide dog school websites and reading posts
> >>>>>> from here and elsewhere about different guide dog schools and am now
> >>>>>> trying to sort things out.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Several schools at the top of my list do not grant full ownership.
> >>>>>> This concerns me, but other than that I like the schools. One
> >>>>>> school that does grant ownership is in California. I live in Ohio
> >>>>>> and don't want to be on a plane for a long time. that may be silly,
> >>>>>> but I
> >>>>> can't
> >>>>>> get over it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So'''I would appreciate Listers input/opinions/guidance/thoughts on
> >>>>> my
> >>>>>> situation.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> the school I really like is Guiding eyes for the Blind. They do not
> >>>>>> grant ownership at all, but I have not heard/read anything negative
> >>>>>> about them. I doubt they are in business to develop teams only to
> >>>>> take
> >>>>>> the dog away.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> My intent is not to debate ownership issues. I want to learn
> >>>>> Listers'
> >>>>>> experiences with nonownership schools with the focus on GEB.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks for any input.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Brenda
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> NAGDU mailing list
> >>>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>>>>> for
> >>>>>> NAGDU:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/heather.l.bird%40g
> >>>>> mail.co
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> NAGDU mailing list
> >>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>>> NAGDU:
> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/crazymusician%40sh
> >>>>> aw.ca
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> NAGDU mailing list
@> @> @@@> @@@> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> NAGDU:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40roadrunne
> >>> r.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> NAGDU mailing list
@> @> @@@> @@@> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dreamymarmot93%40yahoo.de
> >>>
> >>> ---
> >>> Diese E-Mail wurde von AVG auf Viren geprÁblea/4ft.
> >>> http://www.avg.com
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> NAGDU mailing list
@> @> @@@> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sunshine81780%40att.net
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NAGDU mailing list
@> @> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/heather.l.bird%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
@> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sunshine81780%40att.net
More information about the NAGDU
mailing list