[NAGDU] Risk Assessment Scale, Absolutely No School Bashing contained within,
Cindy Ray
cindyray at gmail.com
Mon May 22 16:33:54 UTC 2017
Not me, Cindy. I scored about 9 or 10 because I do exactly what they say
.... except when I don't.
Cindy
-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sunshine via
NAGDU
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2017 11:32 AM
To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
Cc: Sunshine <sunshine81780 at att.net>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Risk Assessment Scale, Absolutely No School Bashing
contained within,
Wow, you scored 40! That's good. I didn't score that high! Mine was 25.
----- Original Message -----
From: Heather Bird via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Date: Monday, May 22, 2017 9:01 am
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Risk Assessment Scale, Absolutely No School Bashing
contained within,
>
>
> Hi, Sunshine. I am re posting it below so yew can see the scale.
> Perhaps that message slipped by in all of the heavy list traffic lately.
> Yes, I came up with it myself, but being that I am no expert and no
> professional, it is doubtless incomplete in some respects. For
> instance since posting it, I thought of a few other factors. For
> instance, being a person of size, I.E. drastically overweight should
> be grouped as a relevant factor along something like belonging to a racial
minority.
> Living in poverty especially in a less than safe neighborhood should
> be grouped along with factors such as working in unsafe neighborhoods.
> Also, having a mental health disorder, whether or not you take
> medications, whether or not you receive counseling should be listed as
> factors. I would put things like bi-polar or sczitsafrania as a 5
> factor and things like PTSAID, Major depression or TBI as a 3 point
> item, and things like seasonal affective disorder or post partum
> depression as a 1 factor. So, I would welcome any feedback so as to
> refine this tool. I think I might also run it by a few blind social
> workers and psychologests and see what they think about the factors
> and the point values that I have come up with. So, please see below
> for the post in its entirity.
>
>
> Risk Assessment Scale, Absolutely No School Bashing contained within,
> Hi, Brenda and list. Well, I want to talk about low and high
> risks related to ownership policies. I am not going to bash any school
> or to debate whether ownership is a deal breaker issue, because for
> some people it is and for some it is not. What I want to do is to give
> you a rough outline of a scale you can use to look at how the
> situation of a theoretical handler might increase or decrease their
> risk for an issue of repossession of a guide taking place.
> You need not feel compelled to share your answers with the list, but
> it might be helpful to you or to other listers.
>
> So, let's assume a few things and then consider them. A. You are a
> perfect handler, who receives the perfect dog, from a school who is
> always fair. In that case, ownership would matter only in the
> theoretical realm of blindness philosophy, but logistically it
> wouldn't make any difference to the team.
> However, no handler, dog, team or school is perfect. Next scenario. B.
> You are a great handler with a dog from a not very reasonable school.
> There is
> some risk, but not too much if the handler plays by the rules. C. You
> are not a very competent or compliant handler, but your school is also
> not a very vigilant or punitive school, and so, no issues related to
> repossession of the dog are likely to arise. Finally, D. You are a
> substandard handler from a very aware and parental school. You are
> almost certain to encounter trouble. . As no school is perfect, every
> single school will on occasion be unfair to a handler, just as at
> every school there will be some handlers who screw up, that is life
> and the law of averages. I know of at least one handler from the
> following schools who has shared with me that they have had a dog
> taken back, where, if they are being truthful, I absolutely feel that
> the school was in the wrong, in whole or in part: GDB, GEB, Fidelco,
> GDD, GDF, UGDA (note, no longer exists) GDT. I know of at least one
> case of a handler engaging in handling and treatment of the dog that I
> do think should have warranted repossession of the dog, again, if they
> were being truthful, in which the school did nothing at the following
> schools: GEB, GDF, GDB, GDD, Eye Dog Foundation, UGDA (no longer
> exists) and Freedom Guide Dogs. Out of all of the schools in the
> country I would recommend the Seeing Eye as your absolute best bet for
> avoiding the pitfalls that can come from a school's ownership
> policies. I would say that Freedom is also a fairly low risk. I would
> say that Fidelco and GDB would be one of your highest risk schools and
> all of the rest fall somewhere in the middle of the risk spectrum in
> terms of their history of repossessing dogs for both valid and invalid
> reasons. These are not at all quality statements regarding the worth
> of either the dogs or the training programs. I am simply speaking to
> the issue of likelihood of a dog being removed from the handler's care
> by the school. But, it is very important that you first figure out how
> much of a risk you face for an ownership policy to become troublesome
> for you as a handler. See below:
>
> I would suggest that you prioritize or not, the aspect of the
> ownership policy in your decision making process based on how great of
> a risk you face for potentially upsetting your school. Now, I am not
> talking about harming, neglecting, beating or otherwise misusing or
> mistreating the dog, as A.
> you would
> not do that, and B. those would be reasonable grounds for your dog to
> be taken away. What I am talking about are the factors that often
> cause schools to take punitive action. Here is a list that is by no
> means exhaustive. See how many you check off, and then decide based
> upon that how important an ownership policy is for you in your
> personal situations. Each item has a number after it. Add up your
> points at the end and calculate your score, then look at the rough
> idea scoring guide. In each group of three, please only select one
> option, or if you don't ever fit any of those categories, then put
> down a zero.
> I will give you my score at the end. These are only examples and not
> at all value judgements about you or any other lister. They are
> guidelines based on what some schools have the potential to freak out
> about. Every school is different, every trainer or administrator is
> different, and schools can change over time improving or declining,
> so, keep that in mind.
>
> A.
>
> You intend to feed your dog a raw diet, either the BARF method or the
> prey model diet, 5,
>
> You intend to feed your dog a home cooked diet composed of cooked
> meat, eggs, grains and or vegetables and vitamin supplements, 3,
>
> You intend to switch your dog off of the school's brand to an organic,
> human grade or grain free dry dog food, 1,
>
> B.
>
> You intend to cross train your dog to perform tasks to mitigate a
> secondary disability that you might have such as adding medical alert
> tasks, psychiatric service, etc, 5,
>
> You intend to add extensive additional training to enhance your guide
> dog's work, clicker training, target training, specialized find
> commands, running with your dog, retrieval tasks, etc, 3,
>
> You intend to make some minor modifications to your dog's command
> repertoire, such as adding a command to turn about 180 degrees, to
> find and distinguish between words such as elevator, stairs and
> escalator, some mild hand targeting to aid in off-leash recall, etc,
> 1,
>
> C.
>
> You intend to engage in high intensity dog sports with your dog such
> as skijuring, agility trials, tracking or hunting or water rescue
> trials, etc, 5,
>
>
> You intend to engage in some moderate intensity dog sports with your
> guide such as, fly ball, obedience trials, cross country skiing,
> walking marathons or half marathons with your dog, 3,
>
> You intend to engage in mild sports with your dog, hiking,
> participation in walks such as 5Ks and 10ks, 1,
>
> D.
>
> You intend to do tyders before getting any vaccines for your dog, to
> use only essential oils for flee and tick preventative, to utilize
> herbal supplements for your dog, or to utilize the services of a
> veterinary acupuncturist, 5,
>
> You intend to use conventional flee and tick preventative in the warm
> months and essential oils for control in the cold months, to use some
> nutritional, but not herbal supplements, to use tyders for some
> vaccines, to minimize the use of antibiotics in many situations, you
> use the services of an accupressurist, but not an acupuncturist, 3,
>
> You intend to give all vaccines but to spread them out to separate
> visits, you will give flee and tick preventative year round, but you
> will separate it from the heart worm preventative by one week, you use
> organic grooming products, you engage in canine massage,
>
> E.
>
> You order and use an alternative harness such as one sold by On the Go
> or Paw Power Creations, switch from a chain collar to a pinch collar
> or a simple buckle collar, you have your dog where a light weight back
> pack to carry some of their own supplies, you dress your dog up in a
> full on costume for Halloween, 5,
>
> You decline the booties the school issues and use Mushers' Secret
> instead, you use the school's harness but add harness signs and
> pouches, you switch from a chain collar to a toggle collar or a
> martingale collar, you put t-shirts and other things on your dog to
> help remote causes and fund raisers important to you, 3,
>
> You regularly put decorative bandanas on your dog, you use a designer
> leash rather than the school's leash, you get a really flashy fun
> collar tag, 1,
>
>
> F.
>
> You regularly participate in marches, protests, march in gay pride
> parades or other potentially controversial demonstrations, such as
> right to life or right to choose, 5,
>
> You occasionally attend marches and protests, but they are not
> frequent and are on the tame to moderate side, 3,
>
> You rarely, but sometimes attend controversial lectures, art
> exhibitions, seminars, etc, 1,
>
> G.
>
> You have a spouse, adult parent or child living with you who has
> intensive special needs which can sometimes include violent outbursts
> or intense bouts of yelling or screaming, even if you have safe plans
> and management stratagies to use, 5,
>
> You have a very hecktic life with one or more individuals in it who
> can become disruptive or potentially upsetting to your dog, 3,
>
> You occasionally visit relatives or cliants who might have some of the
> challenges described in the first two options, 1,
>
> H.
>
> You belong to a minority group that often faces descrimination, LGBTQ,
> especially trans gendered individuals, individual with a green card
> but not full citizenship in the United States, are a member of a
> polyamerous relationship, etc, you belong to a highly controversial
> organization or political party, in which you working your dog might
> be noticed in public or in publicity, such as the KKK, the communist
> party, the socialist party, the Nazi party, (yes, these extremely
> contraversicial political parties are legally allowed to exist and
> legally allowed to peacefully demonstrate, so I mention it, because
> the blind are not universaly "good" "inocent" or "well behaved" as
> many sighted steroytypes would portray us) 5,
>
> You are a member of a less controversial minority group, seventh day
> Adventist, strict Islam, orthodox Judaism, racial minority, etc, you
> belong to a group that your school is moderately likely to object to
> your being publicly engaged with while working your dog, PETA, Green
> Peace, the Tea Party, etc, , the occupy movement, 3,
>
> You belong to some organizations which your school might object to
> your appearing in the literature or promotional materials with your
> dog, such as, NFB, ACB, La Leche League, Gay Strait Alliance, Black
> Lives Matter, etc, 1,
>
> I.
>
> You evaluate your schools advice, conduct research, and often make
> decisions that contradict the advice given in lectures, such as opting
> to give squeak toys, with close supervision, you will not give raw
> hide, but you think that elk antlers are acceptable, you wish to use
> another heart worm preventative than what the school gives you, you
> ignore advice not to play tug with your dog, never to take them to a
> dog park, never ever to give your dog people food, etc, and if your
> school challenged you, you would counter, respectfully, with research
> that supports your choice and expect to be able to have a reasonable
> and civil debate about the issue, and would most likely continue with
> your practice if you truly felt that you were in the right, 5,
>
> You occasionally do something different from what your school told you
> to do, but it is not all across the board and if your school asked you
> to stop, yew would be willing to do so, but you would expect to be
> heard out as to your reasoning and not to be penalized, 3,
>
> You rarely do things at odds with your schools advice, but you do not
> follow their guide lines to the letter and if asked to comply you
> would do so right away and with apologies to the school, 1,
>
> J.
>
> You take your dog to very stressful environments, thoughtfully,
> carefully and knowledgeably, such as parades, amusement parks, Time
> Square on New Years, brothels in places where this is legal, to watch
> a space shuttle launch, fire works displays at a distance, or at the
> event with ear protection for the dog, hiking in truly remote
> wilderness areas, white water rafting, 5,
>
> You take your dog into situations such as dangerous inner city
> neighborhoods, crowded festivals, to dog shows as a spectator, into
> jails or psychiatric wards, rock concerts, strip clubs, adult book or
> toy storeseaetc, 3,
>
> You take your dog to, cruise ships, musical theater performances with
> very loud music, theater performances with fake violence, gun shots,
> smoke and strobe light effects, bars, especially controversial bars
> such as gay bars or biker bars, 1,
>
> There are ten groups, so your maximum score could be 50, your minimum
> score could be 0, a low risk person might have a score of around 10 to
> 20, a very, very low risk would be a score of 0 to 10. A moderate risk
> handler might have a score of 20 to 35 and a high risk handler might
> have a score of
> 35 to 50.
> My score is 40. What puts me into this category? Things like having a
> spouse with PTSAID who is never violent but who can yell a lot and
> rarely engages in behaviors like hitting a wall or slamming a door,
> using a harness made by On The Go, not my school's harness, feeding a
> raw diet, being a woman who unashamedly breastfeeds in public with my
> guide laying at my feet, teaching extensive additional commands,
> although not cross training my dog for other disabilities, walking 5ks
> with my dog and fully intending to acclimatize her and I and try to
> walk a marathon or half marathon with her, marching in protests,
> attending parades or a fireworks display from an increased distance,
> and also with ear protection for the dog, and so on.
>
> For me personally, an ownership policy is one of the most important
> issues. If you scored 50? Then not considering ownership would be
> truly foolish, but that is a true extreme, and I highly doubt that you
> would score a 50. If you score a 0, then rest assured that your risk
> is virtually non-existent, and aside from any philosophical objections
> you might have, the functional reality for you makes ownership a
> non-issue. Again, I highly doubt that you scored a 0. You can do this
> on your own, think about your score, and certainly any other factors I
> may have missed, then you can decide for you personally whether the
> ownership is a thing or not, and either way, you must do what is right
> for you. So, I'm not debating the ownership question. For me
> personally it is supremely important, it might also wind up being a
> crucial point for you, or it might be a virtual non-issue. However,
> you should not rule it out as a potentially crucial factor until and
> unless you have assessed your risk for encountering difficulties with
> your school based on who you are, how you live, what you do, how you
> handle your dog, what challenges you face, etc.
>
> I hope twas helpful.
>
>
> On 5/22/2017 9:45 AM, Sunshine via NAGDU wrote:
> > I never really had a concern regarding ownership. However, if ownership
is really important to folks, then they should select schools that offer
that option. I've not ever had a problem with schools removing my guides,
but at one school, I filled out ownership papers after two years the second
time around. However, I knew that no one would remove my guide's. I wish I
had your orginal post, Heather, as it would be interesting to see where I
score! Smiles! It looks like a great tool. Did you formulate this survey
yourself? Smiles!
> >
> > Seeing Eye is a great school, was my first and it will always be in my
heart. I've only been to one other school, a very good one, but TSE truly is
where I would like to be. My other school is good and I have no complaints,
but TSE is definitely in my blood!
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Lisa via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> > Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Date: Monday, May 22, 2017 8:33 am
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Risk Assessment Scale, Absolutely No School
> > Bashing contained within,
> >
> >>
> >> Hi Heather,
> >>
> >>
> >> wow, thanks so much for sharing this.
> >>
> >> I'm in Germany and theoretically, this debate about ownership is
> >> not important for me because over here things are handled very
> >> differently in the guide dog system but I still answered the
> >> questions. I got only a 20. I was a bit surprised, I had expected
> >> more. But these questions are so important to understand how much
> >> of an issue ownership policies can be for some people including myself.
> >>
> >> I would feel seriously limited in handling my dog if I knew my
> >> school would react to things like teaching him additional tasks or
> >> taking him to this or that event negatively.
> >>
> >>
> >> Lisa
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Am 22.05.2017 um 13:56 schrieb margo Downey via NAGDU:
> >>> I scored 41.
> >>>
> >>> Margo and Isis
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie
> >>> Johnson via NAGDU
> >>> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2017 7:00 AM
> >>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> >>> Users
> >>> Cc: Julie Johnson
> >>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Risk Assessment Scale, Absolutely No School
> >>> Bashing contained within,
> >>>
> >>> I love this tool! Thanks so much for creating and sharing it! I
> >>> score in the mid to upper 20's'''x's early and I haven't finished my
first
> >>> cup of coffee so math is not my strong suit right now. ininsmile*
I'm
> >>> also a long, long way from thinking about a new dog and whether or
> >>> not I'll attend a program for that dog.
> >>>
> >>> Anyway, I did want to add one thought to this excellent tool.
> >>> Consider how your life might change to include things that you do
> >>> not currently participate in. I'm thinking in particular about
> >>> sporting events, marches, concerts, bars etc. If you are a young
> >>> person living at home or just getting ready to go off to college,
> >>> your life can look very different than it does now in just a
> >>> couple of years. I live in a very small town that simply does not
> >>> have some of these things as an option for me to participate in. I
have no plans of moving, but life happens.
> >>> Might I want to do some of these things in the future? Perhaps,
> >>> and I do think I'd like to have the option of working my dog if I
> >>> felt it appropriate.
> >>>
> >>> Julie
> >>> http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 5/22/2017 1:06 AM, Daryl via NAGDU wrote:
> >>>> This is a very thorough assessment tool. Depending on how I
> >>>> choose to view it, my score would probably be somewhere between
> >>>> 26 and 30. I'm half asleep, so my math could be wrong. In any
> >>>> case, it does tell me the type of school I would need to attend
> >>>> and that ownership does need to be a consideration with a
> >>>> successor dog. concom) thank you for this very thorough tool.
> >>>> concom)
> >>>>
> >>>> On May 21, 2017 10:31:46 PM MDT, Heather Bird via NAGDU
> >>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>> Hi, Brenda and list. Well, I want to talk about low and
> >>>>> high risks related to ownership policies. I am not going to bash
> >>>>> any school or to debate whether ownership is a deal breaker
> >>>>> issue, because for some people it is and for some it is not.
> >>>>> What I want to do is to give you a
> >>>>>
> >>>>> rough outline of a scale you can use to look at how the
> >>>>> situation of a theoretical handler might increase or decrease
> >>>>> their risk for an issue of repossession of a guide taking place.
> >>>>> You need not feel compelled to
> >>>>>
> >>>>> share your answers with the list, but it might be helpful to you
> >>>>> or to other listers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So, let's assume a few things and then consider them. A. You are
> >>>>> a perfect handler, who receives the perfect dog, from a school
> >>>>> who is always fair. In that case, ownership would matter only in
> >>>>> the theoretical realm of blindness philosophy, but logistically
> >>>>> it wouldn't
> >>>>>
> >>>>> make any difference to the team. However, no handler, dog, team
> >>>>> or school is perfect. Next scenario. B. You are a great handler
> >>>>> with a dog
> >>>>>
> >>>> >from a not very reasonable school. There is some risk, but not
> >>>> >too
> >>>>> much
> >>>>> if the handler plays by the rules. C. You are not a very
> >>>>> competent or compliant handler, but your school is also not a
> >>>>> very vigilant or punitive school, and so, no issues related to
> >>>>> repossession of the dog are likely to arise. Finally, D. You are
> >>>>> a substandard handler from a very aware and parental school. You
> >>>>> are almost certain to encounter trouble. . As no school is
> >>>>> perfect, every single school will on occasion be unfair to a
> >>>>> handler, just as at every school there will be some handlers who
screw up, that is life and the law of averages.
> >>>>> I know of at least one handler from the following schools who
> >>>>> has shared with me that they have had a dog taken back, where,
> >>>>> if they are being truthful,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I absolutely feel that the school was in the wrong, in whole or
> >>>>> in
> >>>>> part:
> >>>>> GDB, GEB, Fidelco, GDD, GDF, UGDA (note, no longer exists) GDT.
> >>>>> I know of at least one case of a handler engaging in handling
> >>>>> and treatment of
> >>>>>
> >>>>> the dog that I do think should have warranted repossession of
> >>>>> the dog, again, if they were being truthful, in which the school
> >>>>> did nothing at the following schools: GEB, GDF, GDB, GDD, Eye
> >>>>> Dog Foundation, UGDA (no
> >>>>>
> >>>>> longer exists) and Freedom Guide Dogs. Out of all of the schools
> >>>>> in the
> >>>>>
> >>>>> country I would recommend the Seeing Eye as your absolute best
> >>>>> bet for avoiding the pitfalls that can come from a school's
> >>>>> ownership
> >>> policies.
> >>>>> I would say that Freedom is also a fairly low risk. I would say
> >>>>> that Fidelco and GDB would be one of your highest risk schools
> >>>>> and all of the rest fall somewhere in the middle of the risk
> >>>>> spectrum in terms of their history of repossessing dogs for both
> >>>>> valid and invalid reasons. These are not at all quality
> >>>>> statements regarding the worth of either the dogs or the
> >>>>> training programs. I am simply speaking to the issue of
> >>>>> likelihood of a dog being removed from the handler's care by the
school.
> >>>>> But, it is very important that you first figure out how much of
> >>>>> a risk you face for an ownership policy to become troublesome
> >>>>> for you as a handler. See below:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I would suggest that you prioritize or not, the aspect of the
> >>>>> ownership
> >>>>>
> >>>>> policy in your decision making process based on how great of a
> >>>>> risk you
> >>>>>
> >>>>> face for potentially upsetting your school. Now, I am not
> >>>>> talking about
> >>>>>
> >>>>> harming, neglecting, beating or otherwise misusing or
> >>>>> mistreating the dog, as A. you would not do that, and B. those
> >>>>> would be reasonable grounds for your dog to be taken away. What
> >>>>> I am talking about are the factors that often cause schools to
> >>>>> take punitive action. Here is a list that is by no means
> >>>>> exhaustive. See how many you check off, and then decide based
> >>>>> upon that how important an ownership policy is for you in your
personal situations. Each item has a number after it.
> >>>>> Add up your points at the end and calculate your score, then
> >>>>> look at the rough idea
> >>>>>
> >>>>> scoring guide. In each group of three, please only select one
> >>>>> option, or if you don't ever fit any of those categories, then
> >>>>> put down a zero. I will give you my score at the end. These are
> >>>>> only examples and not at all value judgements about you or any
> >>>>> other lister. They are guidelines
> >>>>>
> >>>>> based on what some schools have the potential to freak out about.
> >>>>> Every
> >>>>>
> >>>>> school is different, every trainer or administrator is
> >>>>> different, and schools can change over time improving or
> >>>>> declining, so, keep that in mind.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You intend to feed your dog a raw diet, either the BARF method
> >>>>> or the prey model diet, 5,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You intend to feed your dog a home cooked diet composed of
> >>>>> cooked meat,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> eggs, grains and or vegetables and vitamin supplements, 3,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You intend to switch your dog off of the school's brand to an
> >>>>> organic, human grade or grain free dry dog food, 1,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> B.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You intend to cross train your dog to perform tasks to mitigate
> >>>>> a secondary disability that you might have such as adding
> >>>>> medical alert tasks, psychiatric service, etc, 5,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You intend to add extensive additional training to enhance your
> >>>>> guide dog's work, clicker training, target training, specialized
> >>>>> find commands, running with your dog, retrieval tasks, etc, 3,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You intend to make some minor modifications to your dog's
> >>>>> command repertoire, such as adding a command to turn about 180
> >>>>> degrees, to find
> >>>>>
> >>>>> and distinguish between words such as elevator, stairs and
> >>>>> escalator, some mild hand targeting to aid in off-leash recall,
> >>>>> etc, 1,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> C.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You intend to engage in high intensity dog sports with your dog
> >>>>> such as
> >>>>>
> >>>>> skijuring, agility trials, tracking or hunting or water rescue
> >>>>> trials, etc, 5,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You intend to engage in some moderate intensity dog sports with
> >>>>> your guide such as, fly ball, obedience trials, cross country
> >>>>> skiing, walking marathons or half marathons with your dog, 3,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You intend to engage in mild sports with your dog, hiking,
> >>>>> participation in walks such as 5Ks and 10ks, 1,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> D.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You intend to do tyders before getting any vaccines for your
> >>>>> dog, to use only essential oils for flee and tick preventative,
> >>>>> to utilize herbal supplements for your dog, or to utilize the
> >>>>> services of a veterinary acupuncturist, 5,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You intend to use conventional flee and tick preventative in the
> >>>>> warm months and essential oils for control in the cold months,
> >>>>> to use some nutritional, but not herbal supplements, to use
> >>>>> tyders for some vaccines, to minimize the use of antibiotics in
> >>>>> many situations, you use the services of an accupressurist, but
> >>>>> not an acupuncturist, 3,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You intend to give all vaccines but to spread them out to
> >>>>> separate visits, you will give flee and tick preventative year
> >>>>> round, but you will separate it from the heart worm preventative
> >>>>> by one week, you use organic grooming products, you engage in
> >>>>> canine massage,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> E.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You order and use an alternative harness such as one sold by On
> >>>>> the Go or Paw Power Creations, switch from a chain collar to a
> >>>>> pinch collar or
> >>>>>
> >>>>> a simple buckle collar, you have your dog where a light weight
> >>>>> back pack to carry some of their own supplies, you dress your
> >>>>> dog up in a full on
> >>>>>
> >>>>> costume for Halloween, 5,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You decline the booties the school issues and use Mushers'
> >>>>> Secret instead, you use the school's harness but add harness
> >>>>> signs and pouches, you switch from a chain collar to a toggle
> >>>>> collar or a martingale collar, you put t-shirts and other things
> >>>>> on your dog to help remote causes and fund raisers important to
> >>>>> you, 3,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You regularly put decorative bandanas on your dog, you use a
> >>>>> designer leash rather than the school's leash, you get a really
> >>>>> flashy fun collar tag, 1,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> F.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You regularly participate in marches, protests, march in gay
> >>>>> pride parades or other potentially controversial demonstrations,
> >>>>> such as right to life or right to choose, 5,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You occasionally attend marches and protests, but they are not
> >>>>> frequent
> >>>>>
> >>>>> and are on the tame to moderate side, 3,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You rarely, but sometimes attend controversial lectures, art
> >>>>> exhibitions, seminars, etc, 1,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> G.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You have a spouse, adult parent or child living with you who has
> >>>>> intensive special needs which can sometimes include violent
> >>>>> outbursts or intense bouts of yelling or screaming, even if you
> >>>>> have safe plans and management stratagies to use, 5,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You have a very hecktic life with one or more individuals in it
> >>>>> who can
> >>>>>
> >>>>> become disruptive or potentially upsetting to your dog, 3,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You occasionally visit relatives or cliants who might have some
> >>>>> of the challenges described in the first two options, 1,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> H.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You belong to a minority group that often faces descrimination,
> >>>>> LGBTQ, especially trans gendered individuals, individual with a
> >>>>> green card but
> >>>>>
> >>>>> not full citizenship in the United States, are a member of a
> >>>>> polyamerous relationship, etc, you belong to a highly
> >>>>> controversial organization or
> >>>>>
> >>>>> political party, in which you working your dog might be noticed
> >>>>> in public or in publicity, such as the KKK, the communist party,
> >>>>> the socialist party, the Nazi party, (yes, these extremely
> >>>>> contraversicial political parties are legally allowed to exist
> >>>>> and legally allowed to peacefully demonstrate, so I mention it,
> >>>>> because the blind are not universaly "good" "inocent" or "well
> >>>>> behaved" as many sighted steroytypes would portray us) 5,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You are a member of a less controversial minority group, seventh
> >>>>> day Adventist, strict Islam, orthodox Judaism, racial minority,
> >>>>> etc, you belong to a group that your school is moderately likely
> >>>>> to object to your being publicly engaged with while working your
> >>>>> dog, PETA, Green Peace, the Tea Party, etc, , the occupy
> >>>>> movement, 3,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You belong to some organizations which your school might object
> >>>>> to your
> >>>>>
> >>>>> appearing in the literature or promotional materials with your
> >>>>> dog, such as, NFB, ACB, La Leche League, Gay Strait Alliance,
> >>>>> Black Lives Matter,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> etc, 1,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You evaluate your schools advice, conduct research, and often
> >>>>> make decisions that contradict the advice given in lectures,
> >>>>> such as opting to give squeak toys, with close supervision, you
> >>>>> will not give raw hide, but you think that elk antlers are
> >>>>> acceptable, you wish to use another heart worm preventative than
> >>>>> what the school gives you, you ignore advice not to play tug
> >>>>> with your dog, never to take them to a dog park,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> never ever to give your dog people food, etc, and if your school
> >>>>> challenged you, you would counter, respectfully, with research
> >>>>> that supports your choice and expect to be able to have a
> >>>>> reasonable and civil debate about the issue, and would most
> >>>>> likely continue with your practice if you truly felt that you
> >>>>> were in the right, 5,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You occasionally do something different from what your school
> >>>>> told you to do, but it is not all across the board and if your
> >>>>> school asked you to stop, yew would be willing to do so, but you
> >>>>> would expect to be heard out as to your reasoning and not to be
> >>>>> penalized, 3,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You rarely do things at odds with your schools advice, but you
> >>>>> do not follow their guide lines to the letter and if asked to
> >>>>> comply you would
> >>>>>
> >>>>> do so right away and with apologies to the school, 1,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> J.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You take your dog to very stressful environments, thoughtfully,
> >>>>> carefully and knowledgeably, such as parades, amusement parks,
> >>>>> Time Square on New Years, brothels in places where this is
> >>>>> legal, to watch a
> >>>>>
> >>>>> space shuttle launch, fire works displays at a distance, or at
> >>>>> the event with ear protection for the dog, hiking in truly
> >>>>> remote wilderness areas, white water rafting, 5,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You take your dog into situations such as dangerous inner city
> >>>>> neighborhoods, crowded festivals, to dog shows as a spectator,
> >>>>> into jails or psychiatric wards, rock concerts, strip clubs,
> >>>>> adult book or toy storeseaetc, 3,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You take your dog to, cruise ships, musical theater performances
> >>>>> with very loud music, theater performances with fake violence,
> >>>>> gun shots, smoke and strobe light effects, bars, especially
> >>>>> controversial bars such as gay bars or biker bars, 1,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There are ten groups, so your maximum score could be 50, your
> >>>>> minimum score could be 0, a low risk person might have a score
> >>>>> of around 10 to 20, a very, very low risk would be a score of 0
> >>>>> to 10. A moderate risk handler might have a score of 20 to 35
> >>>>> and a high risk handler might have a score of 35 to 50. My score
> >>>>> is 40. What puts me into this category? Things like having a
> >>>>> spouse with PTSAID who is never violent but who can yell a lot
> >>>>> and rarely engages in behaviors like hitting a wall or slamming
> >>>>> a door, using a harness made by On The Go, not my school's
> >>>>> harness, feeding a raw diet, being a woman who unashamedly
> >>>>> breastfeeds in public with my guide laying at my feet, teaching
> >>>>> extensive additional commands, although not cross training my
> >>>>> dog for other disabilities, walking 5ks with my dog and fully
> >>>>> intending to acclimatize her and I and try to walk a marathon or
> >>>>> half marathon with her, marching in protests,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> attending parades or a fireworks display from an increased
> >>>>> distance, and also with ear protection for the dog, and so on.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For me personally, an ownership policy is one of the most
> >>>>> important issues. If you scored 50? Then not considering
> >>>>> ownership would be truly
> >>>>>
> >>>>> foolish, but that is a true extreme, and I highly doubt that you
> >>>>> would score a 50. If you score a 0, then rest assured that your
> >>>>> risk is virtually non-existent, and aside from any philosophical
> >>>>> objections you
> >>>>>
> >>>>> might have, the functional reality for you makes ownership a
non-issue.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Again, I highly doubt that you scored a 0. You can do this on
> >>>>> your own,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> think about your score, and certainly any other factors I may
> >>>>> have missed, then you can decide for you personally whether the
> >>>>> ownership is
> >>>>>
> >>>>> a thing or not, and either way, you must do what is right for you.
> >>>>> So, I'm not debating the ownership question. For me personally
> >>>>> it is supremely important, it might also wind up being a crucial
> >>>>> point for you, or it might be a virtual non-issue. However, you
> >>>>> should not rule it out as a potentially crucial factor until and
> >>>>> unless you have assessed your risk for encountering difficulties
> >>>>> with your school based on who you are, how you live, what you
> >>>>> do, how you handle your dog, what challenges you face, etc.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I hope twas helpful.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 5/19/2017 12:36 PM, Brenda via NAGDU wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hello List,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> this week my pet dog Sadie passed over the rainbow bridge. She
> >>>>>> was
> >>>>> 15
> >>>>>> years old and we had a wonderful life together. She is playing
> >>>>>> with her cat sisters who have gone before her. I will miss her
> >>>>>> and am
> >>>>> still
> >>>>>> sad, but she is no longer suffering so I'm at peace.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As my vision waned over the years, I became more and more
> >>>>>> interested in getting a guide dog, but sadie who was an APL
> >>>>>> rescue didn't like other dogs. I did get O&m training to
> >>>>>> maintain my independence and have been using my skills and now I am
ready to apply for a guide.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have been surfing the guide dog school websites and reading
> >>>>>> posts from here and elsewhere about different guide dog schools
> >>>>>> and am now trying to sort things out.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Several schools at the top of my list do not grant full ownership.
> >>>>>> This concerns me, but other than that I like the schools. One
> >>>>>> school that does grant ownership is in California. I live in
> >>>>>> Ohio and don't want to be on a plane for a long time. that may
> >>>>>> be silly, but I
> >>>>> can't
> >>>>>> get over it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So'''I would appreciate Listers
> >>>>>> input/opinions/guidance/thoughts on
> >>>>> my
> >>>>>> situation.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> the school I really like is Guiding eyes for the Blind. They
> >>>>>> do not grant ownership at all, but I have not heard/read
> >>>>>> anything negative about them. I doubt they are in business to
> >>>>>> develop teams only to
> >>>>> take
> >>>>>> the dog away.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> My intent is not to debate ownership issues. I want to learn
> >>>>> Listers'
> >>>>>> experiences with nonownership schools with the focus on GEB.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks for any input.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Brenda
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> NAGDU mailing list
> >>>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> >>>>>> info for
> >>>>>> NAGDU:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/heather.l.bir
> >>>>> d%40g
> >>>>> mail.co
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> NAGDU mailing list
> >>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> >>>>> info for
> >>>>> NAGDU:
> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/crazymusician
> >>>>> %40sh
> >>>>> aw.ca
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> NAGDU mailing list
@> @> @@@> @@@> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>> for
> >>> NAGDU:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40
> >>> roadrunne
> >>> r.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> NAGDU mailing list
@> @> @@@> @@@> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
NAGDU:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dreamymarmot93%
> >>> 40yahoo.de
> >>>
> >>> ---
> >>> Diese E-Mail wurde von AVG auf Viren geprAblea/4ft.
> >>> http://www.avg.com
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> NAGDU mailing list
@> @> @@@> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
NAGDU:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sunshine81780%40
> >> att.net
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NAGDU mailing list
@> @> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
NAGDU:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/heather.l.bird%40
> > gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
@> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sunshine81780%40att
> .net
More information about the NAGDU
mailing list