[NAGDU] Guide dog population (was guide dogs in Germany)

Fri May 26 18:31:32 UTC 2017

Heather, this is an interesting analysis.
I vaguely remember hearing that guide dog users were about 5% of the blind
population, but, as you say, that could be as a percentage of the whole
blind population, and not limited to the people who could actually use a
guide dog. And I heard it a long time ago, too.
I'd also heard guide dog use is going up because more older people are
choosing to get a dog.
Personally, I suspect that it's more active people who choose to get guide
dogs.  If you don't go many places, or you always go with someone, why
bother with a dog?  But I could be wrong about that.
I've wondered too if employed people are more likely to have a guide dog.
I'd like to see a study on that.  I always meet a number of employed people
in class, and, building on my activity hypothesis, people who have to go to
work every day could be more likely to want a guide dog.
And, finally, I'm hoping that staying active with a guide dog will prolong
the time that I am able to stay active with a guide dog.  Makes sense to me.
I've heard many studies saying that seniors who get regular exercise are
more able to keep moving.
Tracy

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Heather Bird via
NAGDU
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 10:42 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Heather Bird
Subject: [NAGDU] Guide Dogs trained in the US working in Germany? and guide
dogs in Germany in General, was, Ownership in Germany - for Rebecca and
everyone who's interested

First of all I've got to say that it is deeply sad that guide dogs are not
very prevalent in Germany given that the Germans are the ones who are
responsible for our having guide dogs today. The Seeing Eye was the first
guide dog school in the United States, but it was directly inspired by a
guide dog training program in Potsdam Germany. The same individual who began
the Seeing Eye also helped to start schools in the UK and I believe possibly
in France and Italy. Potsdam really started it all. There were some
unsuccessful or only short term training programs prior to Potsdam, but they
didn't last and were only of very poor quality. So, it really is sad.
However, that two percent figure isn't that small. I don't think the
percentage in the US is much higher. First of all we must consider all of
the infants, toddlers, children and younger teenagers who are not yet old
enough to responsibly handle guide dogs. Then there are the senior citizens
who are simply too old to use a guide dog. I am willing to argue that there
is an age at which one simply is too old to successfully work a guide dog
anymore, due to declining health and aging. However, what that age is really
depends on the health and the attitude of the individual and might start at
as young as 50 or be up into the 90s because all people are individuals. 
So, the senior citizen population who has passed the point of being able to
handle a guide takes out more people. Then you have the blind individuals
who have severe multiple disabilities, primarily cognitive disabilities that
result in an individual who is only at the low to moderate functioning
level. There are certainly deaf blind handlers, and some wheelchair users
who are blind who also use guides. Also there are some people diagnosed with
Mental Retardation, more recently referred to as cognitive impairments or
developmental disabilities, who are in the high functioning range who can
also handle guides if they receive the correct training and have adequate
support. However there are still a large number of severely impaired
individuals who cannot use guide dogs. 
So, if we take the older teenage population up through senior citizens, some
segments of which can not handle dogs any longer, and we exclude those with
severe multiple impairments, we have a group of average or above average
intelligent or only slightly below average individuals, ranging in age from
around 16 to 70, with some outliers in the 12 to 15 age range and in the 70
to 100 age range, and some incredibly motivated, well-supported individuals
with serious multiple disabilities. Of this remaining group there are
millions who have no desire to work a guide dog, who think that white canes
are superior, despite the fact that regardless of the many pros and cons of
the cane and the dog, the one thing a cane cannot do is perform traffic
checks. Then of the remaining group who might wish to get a guide, many of
these are fearful of dogs, terribly allergic to them, live with parents,
adult children or spouses who refuse to live with a dog of any kind, or
belong to religious groups who see dogs as unclean or cultures that see dogs
as frivolous, dangerous or even a food source. Of the remaining individuals
who actively want a dog, many do not have adequate O and M skills to be
accepted at a school, do not have a stable enough living environment, or do
not have the commitment of time and energy to care for and maintain the
training of a guide dog. That leaves only a very small segment of the blind
population. The blind population data is variable depending on the source
you look at. For instance, yew can't look at schools for the blind as they
have been phased out for the most part except for those students who are
blind in addition to other disabilities. You can't look at NFB and or ACB
membership because thousands of people don't belong to either organization,
and others, contrary to the ideal wishes of their organizations, belong to
both. Not all people who are blind receive SSDI or SSI. Not all people who
are blind are signed up with their state's Omission for the Blind, or are
signed up for NLS service or Newsline or Book Share. Also, many people do
not openly identify as blind or visually impaired especially if they are
very high partials or if they are just beginning to lose their sight. So, it
is extremely difficult to determine how many blind people there are in the
United States. Does anyone know what numbers the NFB, ACB and AFB
respectively quote for number of blind people in the United States? Taking
an average of the three estimates might be slightly more accurate. Measuring
the number of guide dog teams is a bit easier because the schools can
provide numerical data and while there are owner trainers, they are not a
very big group. I would like to see the statistics of percentage of guide
dog handlers in the US and in other countries to be determined as a
percentage of eligible blind people, not out of all blind people. For
instance the unemployment rates are determined based on the number of people
who do not have jobs who would like to get them, not counting stay-at-home
moms, children, retired persons, etc. My guess off of the top of my head for
the US is that around 10 to 20 percent of the blind population eligible for
a guide dog actually use one. For instance, in my local chapter we have 15
members, 13 of which are blind, and of those
13 there are 4 guide dogs, which is around 31%. At a leadership training I
just attended for leaders in NYS, there were 2 guide dogs out of around 20
participants, so that is more like 10 percent. At our state convention there
were at least 6 guide dogs in attendance. I don't know the total numbr of
attendees, but I would guess around 100, so that would be around 6 percent.
I don't know if NFB or ACB has ever tried to determine what percentage of
their members use guide dogs? It would be a bit tricky because not all guide
dog users will necessarily belong to NAGDU or GDUI respectively in the NFB
and the ACB. Also, in surveys collecting data about white cane use, many
guide dog handlers also count themselves as white cane users. For instance,
I have one of the free NFB white canes, and based on the data they collect
during that process I would show up as a cane user, but I am also a dog
user. So, any info people have to contribute regarding estimates would be
neat. I am also willing to bet that a larger number of NFB and ACB members
have guide dogs than general blind individuals outside of these
organizations. In the early days I would guess that ACB would have a greater
percentage of guide dog users, but these days I would guess that it is
probably equal, and I might even go so far as to guess, and I have no data
to support this, but I would guess that NFB might actually have a slightly
higher percentage of guide dog handlers. Anyway, I don't know how accurate
that 2% figure really is for Germany or how it was reached, and also how
that compares to the estimate in the United States and how that one was
arrived at. Moving on...

I got side tracked, but I wanted to ask something else as well. What is the
policy regarding guide dog handlers in Germany with dogs trained elsewhere?
Let's say someone from Germany is so impressed with the Seeing Eye that they
apply to and are accepted there. They train in the US then return home to
Germany. Or a handler with a dog from GDB living in the us, moves to Germany
because their spouse, in the military is stationed there. Or an individual
from the UK moves to Germany. Are the access rights the same for the teams
with dogs from other countries? Is there ever any concern regarding
ownership where the dog is owned legitimately by the handler, or by a school
in the US? For instance, a handler with a dog where GEB technically owns the
dog, but the team is working in Germany? How does that work? Have there been
any court cases, news articles, disputes, etc that highlight this issue?

Obviously I deeply object on a gut level to an insurance provider owning
one's Gide dog, even more than to a school retaining ownership. At least GEB
or Fidelco would have the knowledge and experience to make more informed
decisions more of the time, then some huge bureaucratic agency not
specializing in guide dogs.

Wow, kind of scary.

Lastly I am curious about the prevalence of GSDs in Germany. Labs are great
guides, goldens are great guides, and sometimes also boxers, dobermans and
poodles, plus the crosses of these breeds, but GSDs were the original. Due
primarily to the work of the Seeing Eye, Fidelco, and apparently they are
back in the game and turning things around, also, Eye Dog Foundation, GSDs
are still a fixture in the US. But, what about where they originated? What
breeds are most commonly used in Germany. 
There has been some serious stigmatization of GSDs in the US, some due to
World War II, but a lot generated by the use of GSDs during the civil rights
protesting era and the race riots, here in the US. Is there a similar stigma
in Germany due to the use of GSDs by the police, in particular the Nazi
regime? If so, is it as bad as in the US, or worse? 
The GSD is an amazing breed and I know that there are still really
meaningful shows in Germany that are attended by breeders and exhibitors
from all over the world, but I don't know the working status of shepherds in
the country of their birth as a breed.

Yes, I am a guide dog geek. Yes, I am a german shepherd geek. Freely
admitted. *smile*

On 5/23/2017 2:36 PM, Bianka via NAGDU wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Lisa, I have heard of some instances here in germany that the health
insurance grants ownership to the handler, it depends on which insurance you
deal with. Usually, the insurance doesn't really care what happens with the
dog when he retires. However, it might get difficult when the dog has to
retire early or has to be returned to the school because of a missmatch or
just bad training.
>
> It's also a fact that charities providing service dogs in Germany face
great difficulties raising the money. It's mainly a cultural thing I guess.
I guess if the alternative is having a guide dog or not having a guide dog
at all ownership is not the first thing one thinks about :). In Germany,
guide dogs and their handlers are a very small minority among the blind. The
last time I researched the numbers they talked about 2 to 3 % of the blind
but I might have the number wrong.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Bianka
>
>
>
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