[NAGDU] finding things

Jean Menzies jemenzies at shaw.ca
Wed Nov 1 17:08:24 UTC 2017 

Hi Dan,

Some of my dogs over the years wouldn't find much of anything. lol. Some, 
especially in the early days of my dog experiences, were great obstacle 
avoiders, but lousy finders. Perhaps find wasn't taught as a skill and they 
never quite understood it, or perhaps I didn't know how to teach it back 
then. Who knows. But since then, I have been through several programs that 
actively teach find, and I have found that those dogs get it. They are good 
at avoidance, but also good at locating. When they know the difference, it 
is much easier to teach new objects for finding. JMO. I think it is also a 
bit dog dependent. Some might just be better at that skill.

Personally, I do think that if they are taught a specific concept of 
actually finding things in training, they are much better at finding, and 
then we can build on that. I have also found that my dogs with higher drive 
have been better at it than the calmer softer types. But that is a big 
generalization, and is just what I have experienced so far.

Jean and Bode



-----Original Message----- 
From: Dan Weiner via NAGDU
Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2017 9:55 AM
To: Jean Menzies via NAGDU
Cc: Dan Weiner
Subject: [NAGDU] finding things

just a point of discussion, I really think these skills finding chairs,
elevators, buttons all of those are something my dogs have learned


  but to get them to be consistent I've had o really hall butt and
practice even if they were exposed to it at guide dog school, what have
other people found?

Warmest regards,

Dan and Parker the chair-finder--smileOn 11/1/2017 12:16 PM, Jean
Menzies via NAGDU wrote:
> Andy, thanks for your detailed response. It really helps in comparing how 
> the dogs might work, not taking into account personality of course. In 34 
> years of having guide dogs, I have gone through 3 different programs. I 
> change based on what taught skills I think will best suit my lifestyle at 
> a given point. All the programs have been excellent, and my choice to 
> change is not based on anything except examining the skills the dogs are 
> taught and thinking about what I need. Thanks for sharing.
>
> Jean and Bode
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Andy Borka via NAGDU
> Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 7:12 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Andy Borka
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] choosing a school
>
> Hi Jean,
>
> I recently graduated from Seeing Eye. In fact, Alec and I came home in 
> August of this year. We will attempt to answer your questions as much as 
> possible.
>
> Food rewards used or not used
> During training, food rewards are usually forbidden. The dogs are taught 
> to drive from your love and praises after each successful task. Only when 
> you get home might a trainer recommend food rewards along with clicker 
> training. This is done after arriving home because your dog will not have 
> any concept of where he/she is at the time. After building their 
> confidence with a route, phase out the treats, then the clicker
> Skill sets –Is Find the ... taught? If so, what objects or items are the 
> dogs taught to find initially?
> They are taught inside/outside and doors. Aside from this, your dog is 
> taught to generalize. An example is a table. If you normally sit at a 
> table in a lounge, then ask your dog to find a table, he might take you to 
> the one you would normally sit at, but he will take you to a table. After 
> sitting in a specific spot for a few days, he will start taking you 
> directly to that spot. Seeing Eye dogs are heavily patterned for your 
> specific needs. Therefore, most of the patterning and generalization is 
> done during class. Right now, Alec can find inside, outside, the door, 
> home, park, the bus, the wall (at a specific street corner), the service 
> desk at Walmart, the checkout register at Walgreens, the down ramp at 
> certain street corners (offset crossings), things I drop on the ground (my 
> keys on one occasion), steps (both up and down), cars I normally ride in, 
> specific people he knows fairly well, and return points during a route. 
> Most of these he learned during class or after getting home.
> Traffic work – exposure to quiet cars
> Seeing Eye has a quiet car they use during traning and traffic checks. 
> During class, staff members will drive around in different types of 
> vehicles. When students attempt to cross the street, they will give you 
> and your dog a traffic check. A traffic check is a situation where the 
> driver poses a potential danger to you or your dog. An example is pulling 
> out directly in front of you during a crossing. One of these cars is a 
> quiet car. Often, they request the general public give you traffic checks 
> at random. I remember a time where we ended up boxed in between four cars 
> during a crossing. The unfortunate complexity of this situation is the 
> cars that boxed us in were still moving. Alec expertly guided me out of 
> the problem and across the street. Traffic is an important topic. Roughly 
> 4 hours of lectures are dedicated to handling traffic.
>
> Application process: Number of references, home video
> The application process is not complicated. Go to seeingeye.org, click 
> admissions, then apply, then apply online. You create a username/password. 
> When you arrive at the application, you have to fill out sections related 
> to contact info, vision, general health, mobility, references, class date 
> preferences, etc. You have to provide three references. The cost for a dog 
> is $150 paid to the school whenever you can afford to do so. When the 
> initial application is approved, they send you medical forms to have your 
> doctor fill out and send back. They will send a trainer out to evaluate 
> your current mobility skills. Since you have a dog, I don’t know how they 
> would evaluate mobility skills. In the same visit, the trainer would give 
> you a juno walk. If everything is good to go, you will receive a class 
> date. At that time, they would walk you through the legal paperwork and 
> travel arrangements.
>
> These questions have been answered based on my own experience, and what 
> trainers have told me during class.
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Jean Menzies via NAGDU
> Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 2:10 PM
> To: NAGDU
> Cc: Jean Menzies
> Subject: [NAGDU] choosing a school
>
> Hello all,
>
>
>
> Without going into the details now, I am looking at dog retirement, and 
> getting applications started for dog  number 7. Even if I end up delaying 
> exceptance, the paperwork will be good for two years, and there are 
> reasons to get going on it now.
>
>
>
> My current dog is from Leader. He is wonderful, and I really like the 
> skill sets that LD puts on their dogs. But in deciding if I stay or change 
> schools, I want some information on the Seing Eye as well.
>
>
>
> For anyone who has been to either school recently, or for those who have 
> been to both, I would like your thoughts on the following points:
>
>
>
> Food rewards used or not used
>
>
>
> If food rewards are used, are they phased out or maintained
>
>
>
> Skill sets –
>
> Is Find the ... taught? If so, what objects or items are the dogs taught 
> to find initially? E.g., empty chairs/benches, stairs up/down, pushbutton 
> poles, doors, inside/outside, etc.?
>
>
>
> Traffic work – exposure to quiet cars
>
>
>
> Application process: Number of references, home video
>
>
>
> I'm interested in comparing the skill sets and working styles of the dogs, 
> so please, no info on meals, rooms, etc. That's not important to me. Any 
> info anyone can provide on current training from the two programs would be 
> appreciated.
>
>
>
> Jean
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