[NAGDU] choosing a school

d m gina dmgina at mysero.net
Thu Nov 2 19:50:24 UTC 2017 

Original Tracy,
I know the fun of kicking someone in the but on stairs.
This was before I had a dog, Was going down a flight of stairs, and 
kicked this guy rite in the but.
I started laughing, he was crying wanted to to know why I did that.
Gee I wonder why didn't see him.
I still love the story.
Never had this problem with a dog loll.
Keep smiling it gets better.
 message:
> GDF dogs leash guide on steps, rather than guiding in the usual way?  
> What if someone is sitting on the stairs?  You know, stairs rhymes with 
> chairs?  I know most people don't live in my world, so this problem may 
> not come up elsewhere.
> Tracy


> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jenine 
> Stanley via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 2:54 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Jenine Stanley
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] choosing a school

> Hi, maybe I can clear up step refusal versus how different people 
> navigate steps. the two things can be different. For anyone with 
> balance issues or anyone who just prefers to go down stairs by putting 
> one foot onto the next step, then the other foot down on that same 
> step, then continuing, as opposed to putting one foot down on a step 
> and the other foot on the next step down, foot-over-foot as it were, 
> your dog may be taught to step down first then wait for a command until 
> both your feet are firmly on the next step. Same is true going up. We 
> now teach our dogs to put their front feet on the first step up or the up curb.

> If you go down stairs foot-over-foot, then at the top of said stairs, 
> to do step refusal the way I know it, which is a tad old school GDF but 
> is still taught to an extent, the dog will not move if you swing your 
> right foot out as if to go charging down the stairs. The dog is 
> supposed to wait until your left foot has found the step and is 
> securely planted before stepping off. Then the dog goes down the stairs 
> with you, on leash not harness handle. Of course everyone does this 
> differently in practice and you can break step refusal easily if not 
> methodical.

>> On Nov 1, 2017, at 2:45 PM, Jean Menzies via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:

>> Hi David,

>> My understanding of how step refusal was taught at GDF is that the dog 
>> stops at the top of stairs. The dog then waits until the human puts 
>> their foot down on the first step before proceeding. I was told that 
>> this ensured the person was aware of the stairs. But you are describing 
>> it the other way around, which makes more sense in my mind. I don't 
>> mind the dog putting  its front feet ahead and waiting. Either I'm 
>> wrong, or they have changed their methodology. Hey, not the first time 
>> I have been wrong. lol. Thanks for the explanation.

>> GDF is on my list for consideration along with Leader.

>> Jean and Bode

>> -----Original Message----- From: David via NAGDU
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2017 11:05 AM
>> To: Jean Menzies via NAGDU
>> Cc: David
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] choosing a school

>> I've never encountered the problem.  Claire stops at the top of stairs.
>>  If we are at the stairs and I can feel the edge of the step, or see
>> it, I give her a forward command and she drops down one step and waits
>> for me, then she takes the each step one at a time until we are at the
>> bottom.  I can't imagine her leading off a ledge or drop off on a
>> forward command.  Maybe I don't understand your question.

>> *David and Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL* *david at bakerinet.com

>> *
>> On 11/1/2017 12:10 PM, Jean Menzies via NAGDU wrote:
>>> Hi David,

>>> Wow, Clare Rose sounds like a dream dog. Thanks for sharing the skill 
>>> set from GDF. The only thing that concerns me about GDF is step 
>>> refusal. Good idea if it is a set of stairs, but not so good if you are 
>>> inadvertently steppping off a ledge or other drop off thinking it is 
>>> stairs. I can't get my head around going ahead of the dog. How do you 
>>> manage that?

>>> Jean and Bode

>>> -----Original Message----- From: David via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 5:09 PM
>>> To: Jean Menzies via NAGDU
>>> Cc: David
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] choosing a school

>>> Hi, Jean.  My GDF pup finds chairs, doors, entrances versus exits,
>>> return to entry points in large department stores, elevators,
>>> elevator buttons, traffic buttons, escalators, counters, empty
>>> chairs, men's rooms, checkout registers, up/down stairs, and trash
>>> cans.  I'm not sure how much of that she came with, but she had these
>>> down in the first two weeks at home.  She is not great with the
>>> follow command, because she likes to lead. She is an absolute genius
>>> in crowds.  She is invisible in restaurants and keeps her nose out of
>>> food in grocery stores, less so at home out of harness.  Onsite
>>> training in Smthtown, NY, even for newbies, is only two weeks.  She
>>> is a lab golden cross.  Food rewards are your choice.  I use rewards
>>> randomly and for outstanding responses. She is a
>>> 70 pound female and a total goofball out of harness.

>>> *David and Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL* *david at bakerinet.com

>>> *
>>> On 10/31/2017 2:09 PM, Jean Menzies via NAGDU wrote:
>>>> Hello all,



>>>> Without going into the details now, I am looking at dog retirement, and 
>>>> getting applications started for dog  number 7. Even if I end up 
>>>> delaying exceptance, the paperwork will be good for two years, and 
>>>> there are reasons to get going on it now.



>>>> My current dog is from Leader. He is wonderful, and I really like the 
>>>> skill sets that LD puts on their dogs. But in deciding if I stay or 
>>>> change schools, I want some information on the Seing Eye as well.



>>>> For anyone who has been to either school recently, or for those who 
>>>> have been to both, I would like your thoughts on the following points:



>>>> Food rewards used or not used



>>>> If food rewards are used, are they phased out or maintained



>>>> Skill sets –

>>>> Is Find the ... taught? If so, what objects or items are the dogs 
>>>> taught to find initially? E.g., empty chairs/benches, stairs up/down, 
>>>> pushbutton poles, doors, inside/outside, etc.?



>>>> Traffic work – exposure to quiet cars



>>>> Application process: Number of references, home video



>>>> I'm interested in comparing the skill sets and working styles of the 
>>>> dogs, so please, no info on meals, rooms, etc. That's not important to 
>>>> me. Any info anyone can provide on current training from the two 
>>>> programs would be appreciated.



>>>> Jean
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>>>> .com



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