[NAGDU] Puppies Behind Bars - New Yorker

Mon Nov 27 18:21:53 UTC 2017

Tracy:

Those are serious concerns.  They do claim the puppies spend the weekend 
with someone in a home but, is that enough?  The issue of a very regimented 
schedule to our daily lives is also something to be considered.  It is tough 
enough to get a new guide dog used to our home life so I think being raised 
in a normal home is much better.  As you said, will that dog know what to do 
around vacuum cleaners, floor scrubbers, the noise from dishwashers, washing 
machines and dryers.  There is a lot about daily life that a prison raised 
dog will not have had enough exposure or experience.  Then you come to the 
things that prison raised dog has not experienced just being able to have 
taken walks around a neighborhood with kids, bicycles, skates, wheelchairs, 
walkers  etc...  I do not think the trainers would be able to catch the dog 
up on all the things they did not experience while being raised in a prison. 
Also there is the real concern about the puppy being exposed to the loud 
prison environment, fighting and danger to the puppy from being injured by 
other prisoners.  That is a lot to think about when discussing to or not to 
have puppies raised in a prison.

Sandra
SLJohnson25 at comcast.net
-----Original Message----- 
From: Tracy Carcione via NAGDU
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 10:53 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: Tracy Carcione
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Puppies Behind Bars - New Yorker

My concerns about prison-raised dogs are more about house behavior.  Would
the dog have been exposed to ordinary things like the vacuum cleaner?  Would
the dog have spent time alone?  Could it adapt to a routine that varies
somewhat every day, unlike prison, which is a very scheduled place?  Would
the dog have spent time with the run of the house and unsupervised?
Krokus was not raised in a prison, but, when he came home with me, it seemed
like he had no clue how to behave himself when not confined or closely
supervised.  It took months for him to be free and unsupervised without
getting into trouble, so this is something I take seriously now.

On the other hand, I have heard that prison-raised dogs are very good at
being quiet and obedient, which could be nice.
Tracy

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tara Briggs via
NAGDU
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 10:27 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Tara Briggs
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Puppies Behind Bars - New Yorker

Jody I have wondered about that as well. I think it would be an interesting
study. If you could compare puppies prison prison versus puppies not race in
prison is there a difference in their socialization. Obviously, a dogs
ability to behave well in public is a huge part about being a service
animal.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 27, 2017, at 8:12 AM, Jody ianuzzi via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
>
> OK I will probably get in trouble too but I don't think a prison is an
appropriate place to socialize a puppy. Socialization is supposed to include
exposure to normal life situations not the inside of a prison! I can't
picture of this as being a good idea from any angle.
>
> JODY
>
> thunderwalker321 at gmail.com
>
> "What's within you is stronger than what's in your way."  NO BARRIERS
> Erik Weihenmayer
>
>> On Nov 27, 2017, at 10:04 AM, S L Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
>>
>> Hi Sherry:
>>
>> I agree with you.  When I was asked by a school if I would accept a
>> dog raised in a prison I told the trainer absolutely no!  If it was
>> the best guide dog that ever was, I would not accept a prison raised
>> dog.  I cannot imagine my sweet golden girl raised by a criminal,  what
an awful thought.
>> Just the thought of these innocent puppies raised by a criminal is
>> disgusting and unacceptable to me.  The thinking these days is to
>> rehab prisoners but to me all it is a way for them to get free
>> educations, time off for completing their education and raising
>> puppies is a privilege.  If they had not committed a crime they could
>> go to school or get any job including working with dogs.  However, I
>> think the guide and service dog schools should not allow these
>> precious puppies near this criminals.  They need to place the puppies
>> in safe loving homes not in a prison!  I cannot believe that the
>> schools find themselves so desperate that they resort to allowing
>> criminals near these puppies.  Shame on you guide and service dog
>> schools! Please,  please think of the safety of your puppies!  I know
>> both of us will get angry messages from the monitor of the list as
>> well as other list members but this is a free country with freedom of
speech so you and I are entitled to our opinion on this subject.
>>
>> Sandra Johnson and precious golden Eva SLJohnson25 at comcast.net
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sherry Gomes via NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2017 10:11 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Cc: Sherry Gomes
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Puppies Behind Bars - New Yorker
>>
>> I took one of my dogs to prison with my church choir a long long time
ago.
>> We went to a minimum security prison. The guys were very happy to see
>> my dog. Another time, I went with my cousin to see her ex-husband,
>> who was in San Quentin for drug charges. We met in a big room with
>> lots of prisoners and their guests, and one woman asked if her husband
could say hi to my dog.
>> He was a lifer and had already been there 15 years so hadn't seen a
>> dog in a very long time. He cried and cried when he petted my dog.
>> Having said all that, I would not want a dog raised in prison. I knew
>> a woman who had one, and the dog was fabulous. But years ago, I read
>> the book small Miracles by ann Rule. Near the end, she mentioned that
>> on one of her visits to Diane Downs for interviews, Downs was raising
>> a puppy to be a service dog. Downs never showed any remorse about
>> murdering one of her children and trying to murder all three. So I
>> felt she had no right to the privilege of raising a dog. If GDB ever
>> started having their dogs raised in prison, I'd tell them I
>> definitely do not want one of those dogs. It might be a dumb
>> attitude, but the idea that people like Diane Downs, or anyone like her,
could raise a dog I might get is terrible to me.
>>
>>
>> Sherry
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2017 6:45 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Puppies Behind Bars - New Yorker
>>
>> One of the prisons here in Iowa used to work with dogs as did the
>> women's prison, but I can't remember if they were training them for a
>> program. I t got too crowded for them to have a good facility. When I
>> went to the women's prison once to participate in the church service
>> there, several looked longingly at Fisher and said, "awe", but they
>> had been instructed not to mess with him. I was sort of sorry they had
been.
>> Cindy Lou Ray
>> cindyray at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shari Cook
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2017 5:41 PM
>> To: David via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Shari Cook <kalilee at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Puppies Behind Bars - New Yorker
>>
>> America's VetDogs (a sister organization to the Guide Dog Foundation
>> for the Blind in Smithtown, NY) has puppy raisers in prison - they
>> are imprisoned veterans that raise pups specifically for other
>> veterans to provide them with enhanced mobility and renewed
>> independence.  As with GDF, there is no cost to get a pup.  The dogs
>> spend their weekdays being trained by honor prisoners and go to a
>> family on weekends for social exposure.  The pups typically stay at
>> the prison for 12 to 18 months, then go off to "puppy college" for
>> their specific formal training which lasts approximately 4 months.  I
>> raise puppies for GDF and we often cross train with the VetDogs
>> program.  It's amazing to see what these animals can do, from finding
>> the button to open a handicapped entrance, to pushing an elevator
>> button, or opening and closing doors, pulling laundry baskets, waking
>> a veteran that's having flashbacks, to just being a general companion
>> and getting the veteran to be comfortable in the public again.  If
>> anyone needs more information on the VetDogs program, their website
>> is America's VetDogs | Home
>>
>> |
>> |
>> |  |
>> America's VetDogs | Home
>>
>>
>> |
>>
>> |
>>
>> |
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   On Sunday, November 26, 2017, 5:14:49 PM EST, David via NAGDU
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Cross-posted
>>
>> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/11/27/puppies-behind-bars-wit
>> h-glenn
>> -close
>>
>> --
>> *David and Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL*
>> *david at bakerinet.com*
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> http://www.avg.com
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