[NAGDU] religious organizations and guide dogs

Tue Oct 3 00:19:52 UTC 2017

Ladies and gentlemen:
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is not Lutheran, Catholic,
or Jewish. They have meeting houses and they have temples. There are sacred
reasons why the dogs are not allowed in the temples which these ladies
either are not willing to articulate or cannot. It is possible that not
doing so is part of the sacred part of this. I believe (someone correct if I
am wrong) but there would be a difference between the synagogue and the
temple. The temple, at least in the past, had a holy of holies location
where few could go. This could be a similar situation.

The churches can legally not allow the dogs if it is for the services. 

Rachel and Sunshine have asked that the thread go away. I believe none of us
is judging them for doing what they do; we want to learn, but we must
respect these folks and end this discussion. Most of what has been said is
now being repeated over and over again, and it no longer has a productive
life. The thread is now closed, and anyone who writes upon it to add to the
discussion will be hearing from me off list.

Thank you so much for your cooperation.
Cindy Lou Ray, Moderator
cindyray at gmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rachel Grider via
NAGDU
Sent: Monday, October 2, 2017 7:00 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Rachel Grider <rachel.grider at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] religious organizations and guide dogs

I think that with a discussion like this, there are so many different
opinions and if you points, and everyone has his or her own convictions
which probably won't be changed by this discussion. Many people in my
situation may choose to act differently than I am choosing to act, and that
is OK. I respect all of you regardless of your convictions, but I will say
no more on in this thread, as I do not believe that more comments would be
productive. 

All best,

Rachel

> On Oct 2, 2017, at 16:37, Sunshine via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> comrachel, thanks so much!
> 
> I did mention the sacredness and I just told people I don't disagree with
their points of view. In OKC, I would be able to leave my dog in the area
outside the Temple in a crate, but I elect not to do so. I like you, respect
the decisions of the leaders of our church, but I also know that I can
educate. President Monson is all for we who are blind and visually impaired
as well as those with other disabilities! Our church equips us with
accmmodation in so many ways and I have not been discriminated against in
any other way. I might have needed to do some educating, but I have had
callings just like my sighted counterparts.
> 
> Thanks all. Just know I don't disagree as I already stated. I do respect
the leaders of our church, however. As Rachel said, not all areas allow
people to take their dogs in the outger area, but I was told they would let
me do that much. I just didn't do so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine and 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rachel Grider via NAGDU  <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Monday, October 2, 2017 3:41 pm
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] religious organizations and guide dogs
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hi, Guys:
>> 
>> Just to clarify: I am also a member of The LDS church and attend the
temple regularly. The reason for The policy prohibiting service dogs from
the temple has to do with the sacred nature of the temple and what goes on
there. I have great love and respect for my church leaders: having said
this, I would like to see more of an awareness from them towards members
with disabilities and their specific needs. Though I do agree that dogs
should not be in the temple, I believe that there should be a place set
aside where they can stay in their kennel while we are inside - perhaps just
inside the temple. While some temple presidents do accommodate this, it is
not part of the overall accommodations, so it is ultimately left up to
individual temple presidents.
>> 
>> Please understand that this is not active discrimination; it is simply a
lack of understanding. I believe that as a member of the church, it is my
job to help educate church leaders, with love and understanding, about  the
rule of our dogs so that they might change the policy to include
accommodations for them while we are in the temple.
>> 
>> I will say it again that I love my church leaders, and I know that
everything that they do in this regard is done to preserve the sacredness of
the temple, which is also very important to me.
>> 
>> I hope you guys have a great day!
>> Rachel
>> 
>>> On Oct 2, 2017, at 14:49, Dan Weiner via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> i don't really care if I know or not about the temple, our guide dogs
are our mobility aids and therefore I think it's appropriate for us to make
the decision, not a church, but of course you won't agree. But we'll agree
to disagree.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 10/2/2017 5:15 PM, Sunshine via NAGDU wrote:
>>>> I can understand the view for a church service, but going to the Temple
is much more than that. Think as you will, but you don't know enough about
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Any member I've met who has
service dogs told me that they do not think it's appropriate to take our
dogs with us under the circumstances. I didn't understand that view until I
received my Temple recommend and went to The Temple. Smiles!'
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sunshine and
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Dan Weiner via NAGDU  <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> To: Sunshine via NAGDU  <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Date: Monday, October 2, 2017 1:14 pm
>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] religious organizations and guide dogs
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> one thing is to have most people feel that they shouldn't bring there
>>>>> dog guides or that they don't want to bring them and another thing is
to
>>>>> prohibit bringing a guide dog. Sorry guys, but if every time there's
>>>>> some access issues we make excuses for it things won't get better.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dan
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 10/2/2017 2:19 PM, Sunshine via NAGDU wrote:
>>>>>> The Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints does allow dogs in the
meeting houses. As far as the temple is concerned, most people I know feel
as I do - there's a lot of moving around, people coming from many different
directions and we just don't feel we'd take our dogs to the Temple even if
we could. I don't want my dog stressed. Most people will ride with others
and, thus, can seek assistance. In any case, I never considered leaving my
dog at home being a problem. I've always been taught that there should be
times when we leave our dogs at home so a visit to the Temple every once in
a while is a great time. HTH!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sunshine and
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Tara Briggs via NAGDU  <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Date: Friday, September 29, 2017 10:49 am
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] religious organizations and guide dogs
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> But what about other churches? Does anybody know what other churches
policies are about service animals?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Sep 29, 2017, at 11:21 AM, Dan Weiner via NAGDU
<nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> thanks I couldn't remember what it was called, the temple, sorry.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Dam
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 9/29/2017 1:15 PM, Yiska via NAGDU wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I could take my guide dog to the weekly church services but not
into  > the temple. This was about 10 years and now I don't practice so I am
>>>>>>>>> unsure. Yiska > > On Sep 29, 2017 10:58, "Dan Weiner via NAGDU"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org> > wrote: > >> I have been led to believe that the LDS
church doesn't allow guide >> dogs in their tabernacle. When I worked in
Maryland a co-worker out >> of the blue walked up to me and said "is thee
some place that guide >> dogs can stay when they can't accompany their
owner"? not really >> knowing what the reason for this was I gave a
non-committal answer, >> it turned out one of this lady's relatives wanted
to go to a Mormon >> not sure i if it was a church or meeting place or
temple or what, >> my apologies, in Washington, and they told them the guide
dog >> wouldn't be welcome that in quotes "it would disturb the peace and >>
serenity of the ceremony" I'm quoiting, I'm not trying to bash any >>
religion. So I answered my colleague something disparaging about >> religion
in general which I won't write here, oh heck, I'll write >> it-lol I said
that religion is suppose d to preach loving thy >> neighbor as your brother
and that that's fine apparently unless >> you have a guide dog. But anyway,
so I believe there is a policy, >> I'm sure other religious groups have
similar strictures. >> >> >> Dan the man, Parker the hound dog >> >> >> >>
On 9/29/2017 7:23 AM, Star Gazer via NAGDU wrote: >> >>> I checked Tara, and
unfortunately you are correct, the LDS web >>> site does have this policy,
plain as day on their web site. I am >>> truly sorry. I was really hoping
you had a dimwit usher. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: NAGDU >>>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tara Briggs via >>> NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:35 PM To: NAGDU >>> Mailing List, the
National Association of Guide Dog Users >>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> Cc: Tara
Briggs <thflute at gmail.com> Subject: >>> Re: [NAGDU] Forwarded Article: This
able-bodied dog lover makes >>> a great case against faking service dogs >>>
>>> Interesting. But can you make the argument that church meetings >>> are
open to the public and the religious exemption does apply >>> there. For
example, even though the public can walk into a church >>> for any service.
Can't the church exclude say blind people if >>> they want to? Anyway, in
this case, we had to go onto the >>> Internet and get tickets. That's what a
friend of mine did and >>> she invited us to come. The tickets were free but
you did have >>> to get them in order to get a seat. >>> >>> Sent from my
iPhone >>> >>> On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:23 PM, David via NAGDU
<nagdu at nfbnet.org> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> If the concert is open to the
public, the church exception does >>>> not apply. >>>> >>>> ininDavid and
Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL* >>>> *david at bakerinet.com* >>>> >>>>> On
9/28/2017 7:53 PM, Star Gazer via NAGDU wrote: Even when >>>>> they are open
to the public? We have a meeting house (Mormon >>>>> word for church
building) that is open to >>>>> >>>> the public for elections, i.e. it is a
voting poll. There is no >>>> way they >>> could or should restrict someone
from going to the voting poll >>> with a guide or service dog. >>> >>>> >>>>
>>>> --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. >>>>
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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