[NAGDU] CGC test could our dogs do it?

Vivianna irishana at gmail.com
Tue Oct 3 20:59:27 UTC 2017 

Hi Rox,
From what i read, they do not allow leash corrections during the test.  so, this way, the chain collar would be just like any other collar.  I’m guessing that’s their thinking.

Vivianna

> On Oct 3, 2017, at 2:59 PM, The Pawpower Pack via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> All of my evaluators have allowed a controlled pull. Or for me to work the dog during the test— my choice. 
> The thing is that a chain collar is also a training tool, as is a head collar or treats. So why are they allowing one and not the other. Just like a dog who is clicker trained should be able to work without treats, a dog training using KMODT or some other j/p method should, 'in my opinion be expected to work without that training collar, whether it be a prong or a training chain collar. 
> 
> Rox and the kitchen Bitches: 
> Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
> Pawpower4me at gmail.com
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 3, 2017, at 2:44 PM, Danielle Sykora via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I am positive my dog could pass the CGC... except for the walking on
>> loose leash.
>> 
>> The thing about treats, toys, prongs, and headcollars are that they
>> are training tools. Just because they are used sometimes, doesn't mean
>> they are required at all times for the dog to be civilized. I use
>> treats with my dog, but that doesn't mean I need to carry treats 24/7
>> or my dog won't be able to do anything. While I understand completely
>> why you wouldn't be allowed to use these in a one time test, using
>> these tools with a dog on occasion doesn't mean they aren't trained.
>> 
>> Also, the CGC is a lot more simple than service dog training
>> obviously. I don't use treats with my dog for basic obedience and
>> ignoring well behaved dogs or neutral people in a crowd for example. I
>> might use treats on occasion because my dog ignored the dog lunging
>> and growling at the end of its leash two feet away, or for targeting a
>> building from across a parking lot.
>> 
>> I have wondered in the past if it would be possible to negociate
>> allowing a controlled pull during the CGC for blind handlers/trainers
>> of guide dogs. On the one hand, a controled pull is completely
>> different than a dog dragging its owner behind it; but on the other
>> hand, I doubt many AKC evaluators know anything about guide dogs or
>> how blind people train dogs.
>> 
>> 
>> Danielle and Thai
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10/3/17, Vivianna via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Here is a link with the test items for the CGCA test which is the next level
>>> above the CGC.  This link describes the test items.  The only thing here is
>>> that the dog must perform on a loose leash again.  I don’t use a loose leash
>>> with my dog.  I do maintain some contact with the dog so that i can tell
>>> what he’s doing.
>>> So, i have not trained him to be on a loose looping leash.  i’m sure he
>>> could do it if i had trained him that way.
>>> also, it looks like the dogs that take this test must be AKC registered
>>> which my dog is not.  i see no reason to register a altered dog.
>>> http://www.conchokennelclub.org/cgca.htm
>>> 
>>> Vivianna
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 3, 2017, at 10:34 AM, S L Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Vivianna:
>>>> 
>>>> To answer your question, could my dog do it?  Well the honest answer is
>>>> that
>>>> she might not pass.  Eva is now four and a half years old but in her mind
>>>> she is still a goofy golden puppy.  Many years ago with one of my previous
>>>> 
>>>> dogs I was at the vet and Cinnamon was acting completely silly.  I said oh
>>>> 
>>>> when will you ever grow up and the vet answered, "when she is fifteen".
>>>> Golden retrievers just seem to remain like a puppy all their lives.  If I
>>>> am
>>>> not careful Eva will try to get attention from anyone who makes eye
>>>> contact
>>>> with her.  Also her little golden feet just can't always remain on the
>>>> floor.  A common verbal reminder around the house if anyone comes in the
>>>> door or in our daily travels is  "four on the floor please"  She is
>>>> excessively friendly and just can't resist on trying to play with
>>>> everyone.
>>>> I will admit it is probably a bit of my fault.  Due to some significant
>>>> health issues I have not been able to work her much so she has probably
>>>> become a bit lax in her proper guide dog manners.  I looked at the website
>>>> 
>>>> and I think now that I am finally beginning to feel a bit stronger I will
>>>> begin to use that as a guideline to bring her behavior back into line.  I
>>>> also wish I could train the public to leave this little cute cuddly golden
>>>> 
>>>> alone.  I know she is cute and adorable but, she is a guide dog not a pet
>>>> to
>>>> all who see her.  Vivianna, good luck training your puppy and please keep
>>>> us
>>>> posted of your progress.  I think all of us and our dogs could benefit
>>>> from
>>>> the CGC Test for behavior.  Thanks for posting this for us.
>>>> 
>>>> Sandra Johnson and Eva, the goofy golden
>>>> SLJohnson25 at comcast.net
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Vivianna via NAGDU
>>>> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 7:27 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Cc: Vivianna
>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] CGC test could our dogs do it?
>>>> 
>>>> Here you go.
>>>> http://www.akc.org/dog-owners/training/canine-good-citizen/training-testing/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 2, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Ashley Coleman via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbn
>>>> 
>>>>> et.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hello Vivianna
>>>>> Can you share the link for the CGC test with the group? I am curious of
>>>>> the parts of the test.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Vivianna via
>>>>> NAGDU
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 1, 2017 7:20 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Vivianna <irishana at gmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] CGC test could our dogs do it?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> Yes, you can use a chain slip collar.  and, yes, one of the tests is that
>>>>> 
>>>>> the dog has to stay with a stranger for 3 minutes while the owner goes
>>>>> out
>>>>> of sight.
>>>>> what i found interesting is, the AKC does not consider the dog fully
>>>>> trained unles it can perform tasks without treats or toys.
>>>>> many many guide dogs are trained with treats and sent home with the blind
>>>>> 
>>>>> person giving out treats regularly.
>>>>> also, i had a friend tell me that, even on TV when they have the fancy
>>>>> dog
>>>>> shows, the handlers are going around the ring with their hands held in
>>>>> front of the show dog holding a treat.
>>>>> i was amazed to hear that westminster dog show allows the body position
>>>>> to
>>>>> be guided by a treat.
>>>>> 
>>>>> my dog is still to young and, his attention span is to short for me to
>>>>> even try such a test but, give him a couple more months and, i am hoping
>>>>> that he would be able to ace it.
>>>>> i may or may not actually take the test but, itā?Ts a good guideline to
>>>>> look at.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Vivianna
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2017, at 6:00 PM, Jenine Stanley via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Back in I think it was 2007, GDUI had a CGC test at its national
>>>>>> convention. To say it was chaotic is an understatement but I think most
>>>>>> of the teams who went through it did pass with no changes in the test
>>>>>> that I recall. I decided not to do it with my then current dog as she
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> serious recall issues. My current dog could hold a stay that long, no
>>>>>> problem. Isnā?Tt one of the tests to go out of sight of the dog and
>>>>>> return for either recall or just a stay?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think my current guy could actually do this as could my previous dog
>>>>>> but my Lab/Poodle cross, no way. Sheā?Td have enjoyed doing laps around
>>>>>> the testing venue then egging on her fellow canines as they tried to do
>>>>>> their tasks. Great guide, interesting obedience.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2017, at 5:43 PM, Vivianna via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>> So, as most of you know, I am owner-training my five-and-a-half month
>>>>>>> old dog.  I was interested in perhaps getting him CGC certified just
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> fun.
>>>>>>> While looking up the 10 tests that the dog must pass i was thinking,
>>>>>>> just how many dogs that come from schools could actually pass this
>>>>>>> test?
>>>>>>> my answer is, unfortunately, not very many at all.
>>>>>>> one of the tests is to have the dog hold either a sit or down from 20
>>>>>>> feet away and remain there until the tester tells you to call the dog
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>> and, at no time during the testing is the handler allowed to use treats
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> or toys to get the dog to perform.  Also, no training gear such as,
>>>>>>> head
>>>>>>> collars or prong collars can be used.
>>>>>>> All of my dogs except my last one could have passed this test but, my
>>>>>>> last dog could not have held the stay at all.
>>>>>>> my puppy can hold the stay inside now and for a short time outside with
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> me only about 5 feet from him.  and, he works totally without treats or
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> toys or clickers etc.  his recall isnā?Tt that great yet we are still
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> the flexy leash.
>>>>>>> on the website where i was looking up the CGC  test, it states that, if
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> the dog can not perform the tasks without treats or training gear then
>>>>>>> they do not consider him fully trained.
>>>>>>> Just thought this might spark some interesting discussion.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Vivianna
>>>>>>> coollars, prong collars
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>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
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