[NAGDU] CGC test could our dogs do it?

S L Johnson SLJohnson25 at comcast.net
Tue Oct 3 22:45:47 UTC 2017 

Danielle,

When I got Eva from Pilot the dogs were taught to walk with a loose leash at 
the heel position.  For you, I think your pup is from GDF, it is different. 
In the case of GDF dogs who were taught to guide on leash you would have to 
spend some time teaching your dog to heel on a loose leash.  I did teach my 
GDF Tara to know the difference between heel on a loose leash and guiding on 
leash.  Over the years I have had many discussions with trainers from 
several schools and many of them feel that is why they do not teach leash 
guiding.  In my experience the dog can learn to do both.  It just takes time 
and patience to teach them.  When I wanted her to guide on the leash I would 
use the forward, right,left commands.  When I wanted her to heel that is 
what I commanded her to do.  She was easy to teach because she never had a 
hard pull anyway.  I just did not like her thinking she had to guide when I 
was walking with a sighted guide.  I do not like having my arm pulled off so 
all my dogs have been taught to heel on a loose leash.   Tara's new owner 
sure appreciates the fact that I taught her not to pull on the leash.  Lucy 
is 83 years old and likes taking Tara for a short walk with the leash 
resting gently in her hand.  I have heard of blind people participating in 
AKC activities so I am sure they know all about what a guide dog can do.  I 
would encourage anyone interested to contact them in your area and have an 
honest discussion of what your needs would be.  Have fun with your pups in 
whatever you do with them.

Sandra Johnson and Eva
SLJohnson25 at comcast.net

-----Original Message----- 
From: Danielle Sykora via NAGDU
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 3:44 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Danielle Sykora
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] CGC test could our dogs do it?

I am positive my dog could pass the CGC... except for the walking on
loose leash.

The thing about treats, toys, prongs, and headcollars are that they
are training tools. Just because they are used sometimes, doesn't mean
they are required at all times for the dog to be civilized. I use
treats with my dog, but that doesn't mean I need to carry treats 24/7
or my dog won't be able to do anything. While I understand completely
why you wouldn't be allowed to use these in a one time test, using
these tools with a dog on occasion doesn't mean they aren't trained.

Also, the CGC is a lot more simple than service dog training
obviously. I don't use treats with my dog for basic obedience and
ignoring well behaved dogs or neutral people in a crowd for example. I
might use treats on occasion because my dog ignored the dog lunging
and growling at the end of its leash two feet away, or for targeting a
building from across a parking lot.

I have wondered in the past if it would be possible to negociate
allowing a controlled pull during the CGC for blind handlers/trainers
of guide dogs. On the one hand, a controled pull is completely
different than a dog dragging its owner behind it; but on the other
hand, I doubt many AKC evaluators know anything about guide dogs or
how blind people train dogs.


Danielle and Thai



On 10/3/17, Vivianna via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Here is a link with the test items for the CGCA test which is the next 
> level
> above the CGC.  This link describes the test items.  The only thing here 
> is
> that the dog must perform on a loose leash again.  I donâ?Tt use a loose 
> leash
> with my dog.  I do maintain some contact with the dog so that i can tell
> what heâ?Ts doing.
> So, i have not trained him to be on a loose looping leash.  iâ?Tm sure he
> could do it if i had trained him that way.
> also, it looks like the dogs that take this test must be AKC registered
> which my dog is not.  i see no reason to register a altered dog.
> http://www.conchokennelclub.org/cgca.htm
>
> Vivianna
>
>> On Oct 3, 2017, at 10:34 AM, S L Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Vivianna:
>>
>> To answer your question, could my dog do it?  Well the honest answer is
>> that
>> she might not pass.  Eva is now four and a half years old but in her mind
>> she is still a goofy golden puppy.  Many years ago with one of my 
>> previous
>>
>> dogs I was at the vet and Cinnamon was acting completely silly.  I said 
>> oh
>>
>> when will you ever grow up and the vet answered, "when she is fifteen".
>> Golden retrievers just seem to remain like a puppy all their lives.  If I
>> am
>> not careful Eva will try to get attention from anyone who makes eye
>> contact
>> with her.  Also her little golden feet just can't always remain on the
>> floor.  A common verbal reminder around the house if anyone comes in the
>> door or in our daily travels is  "four on the floor please"  She is
>> excessively friendly and just can't resist on trying to play with
>> everyone.
>> I will admit it is probably a bit of my fault.  Due to some significant
>> health issues I have not been able to work her much so she has probably
>> become a bit lax in her proper guide dog manners.  I looked at the 
>> website
>>
>> and I think now that I am finally beginning to feel a bit stronger I will
>> begin to use that as a guideline to bring her behavior back into line.  I
>> also wish I could train the public to leave this little cute cuddly 
>> golden
>>
>> alone.  I know she is cute and adorable but, she is a guide dog not a pet
>> to
>> all who see her.  Vivianna, good luck training your puppy and please keep
>> us
>> posted of your progress.  I think all of us and our dogs could benefit
>> from
>> the CGC Test for behavior.  Thanks for posting this for us.
>>
>> Sandra Johnson and Eva, the goofy golden
>> SLJohnson25 at comcast.net
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vivianna via NAGDU
>> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 7:27 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Vivianna
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] CGC test could our dogs do it?
>>
>> Here you go.
>> http://www.akc.org/dog-owners/training/canine-good-citizen/training-testing/
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 2, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Ashley Coleman via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbn
>>
>>> et.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello Vivianna
>>> Can you share the link for the CGC test with the group? I am curious of
>>> the parts of the test.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Vivianna via
>>> NAGDU
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 1, 2017 7:20 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Vivianna <irishana at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] CGC test could our dogs do it?
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> Yes, you can use a chain slip collar.  and, yes, one of the tests is 
>>> that
>>>
>>> the dog has to stay with a stranger for 3 minutes while the owner goes
>>> out
>>> of sight.
>>> what i found interesting is, the AKC does not consider the dog fully
>>> trained unles it can perform tasks without treats or toys.
>>> many many guide dogs are trained with treats and sent home with the 
>>> blind
>>>
>>> person giving out treats regularly.
>>> also, i had a friend tell me that, even on TV when they have the fancy
>>> dog
>>> shows, the handlers are going around the ring with their hands held in
>>> front of the show dog holding a treat.
>>> i was amazed to hear that westminster dog show allows the body position
>>> to
>>> be guided by a treat.
>>>
>>> my dog is still to young and, his attention span is to short for me to
>>> even try such a test but, give him a couple more months and, i am hoping
>>> that he would be able to ace it.
>>> i may or may not actually take the test but, itā?Ts a good guideline to
>>> look at.
>>>
>>> Vivianna
>>>
>>>> On Oct 1, 2017, at 6:00 PM, Jenine Stanley via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Back in I think it was 2007, GDUI had a CGC test at its national
>>>> convention. To say it was chaotic is an understatement but I think most
>>>> of the teams who went through it did pass with no changes in the test
>>>> that I recall. I decided not to do it with my then current dog as she
>>>> had
>>>> serious recall issues. My current dog could hold a stay that long, no
>>>> problem. Isnā?Tt one of the tests to go out of sight of the dog and
>>>> return for either recall or just a stay?
>>>>
>>>> I think my current guy could actually do this as could my previous dog
>>>> but my Lab/Poodle cross, no way. Sheā?Td have enjoyed doing laps 
>>>> around
>>>> the testing venue then egging on her fellow canines as they tried to do
>>>> their tasks. Great guide, interesting obedience.
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 1, 2017, at 5:43 PM, Vivianna via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>> So, as most of you know, I am owner-training my five-and-a-half month
>>>>> old dog.  I was interested in perhaps getting him CGC certified just
>>>>> for
>>>>> fun.
>>>>> While looking up the 10 tests that the dog must pass i was thinking,
>>>>> just how many dogs that come from schools could actually pass this
>>>>> test?
>>>>> my answer is, unfortunately, not very many at all.
>>>>> one of the tests is to have the dog hold either a sit or down from 20
>>>>> feet away and remain there until the tester tells you to call the dog
>>>>> to
>>>>> you.
>>>>> and, at no time during the testing is the handler allowed to use 
>>>>> treats
>>>>>
>>>>> or toys to get the dog to perform.  Also, no training gear such as,
>>>>> head
>>>>> collars or prong collars can be used.
>>>>> All of my dogs except my last one could have passed this test but, my
>>>>> last dog could not have held the stay at all.
>>>>> my puppy can hold the stay inside now and for a short time outside 
>>>>> with
>>>>>
>>>>> me only about 5 feet from him.  and, he works totally without treats 
>>>>> or
>>>>>
>>>>> toys or clickers etc.  his recall isnā?Tt that great yet we are still
>>>>> on
>>>>> the flexy leash.
>>>>> on the website where i was looking up the CGC  test, it states that, 
>>>>> if
>>>>>
>>>>> the dog can not perform the tasks without treats or training gear then
>>>>> they do not consider him fully trained.
>>>>> Just thought this might spark some interesting discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Vivianna
>>>>> coollars, prong collars
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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