[NAGDU] not sure if this post is allowed but have a question

Buddy Brannan buddy at brannan.name
Thu Sep 14 16:38:35 UTC 2017 

You know that devil I was advocating for? He made me do it. ... 

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Mobile (preferred): (814) 431-0962
Phone: (814) 860-3194
Email: buddy at brannan.name



> On Sep 14, 2017, at 12:35 PM, Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> The moderator is already upset. Anne is on this list and she contributes a
> great deal. Much, Sandra, of what you say is a bias, and much of it isn't
> real knowledge. The only thing horses eat is not hay, and Anne doesn't live
> in the country. As Julie stated, dogs can get disruptive, too, and I am just
> sure that Anne said that the horse can lie down. Many dogs are not safely
> tucked under chairs. I tripped on one at a convention and fell. Many people
> are not conscientious about where they put their dogs putting them and other
> people in danger. I think the statements in this post are judgmental. You
> wouldn't use a horse and that's fine, but your knowledge is lacking. I will
> request that unless people have something to say on this subject that is
> enlightening it needs to end now.
> 
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of S L Johnson via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 11:15 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: S L Johnson <SLJohnson25 at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] not sure if this post is allowed but have a question
> 
> Julie:
> 
> I think my disapproval comes from the fact that having a horse in most
> public situations is not really practical.  No matter how much training they
> have they are still a horse who cannot be tucked safely under a table or
> chair.  They cannot live in small apartments in the city and there are
> probably many other situations.  You cannot find hay for them to eat at the
> grocery store.  I am sure there are a lot more major differences from having
> our dogs.  A dog is a well accepted animal in public and therefore most of
> the time we don't have any access problems.  The problem comes in now that
> so many people are trying to bring things like pigs, goats and any other
> animal they like and claiming it is a service animal.  For some people a
> mini horse might fit into their life style and that is fine for them but I
> am sure there are plenty of vehicles the horse cannot ride in and many
> places that cannot accommodate such a large animal that cannot lye down
> under a table.  I think most customers in a restaurant would object to a
> mini horse standing up near their table.  At least our dogs fit out of the 
> way.   As I said, for someone out in the country with the proper outdoor 
> accommodations to keep a horse and plenty of space to exercise that horse,
> then fine.  However, for most blind and disabled people, the dog will always
> be the more suitable service animal.  As I said in my previous post.  I
> would object to any dog in training or who has been fully trained if it
> caused any disruption or danger to people or other their service dogs. 
> There is always room in the disabled community for new ideas but they are
> not always practical for the majority of us.  I do apologize for not
> realizing that the law had been changed and my information from 2009 had
> been updated to include the mini horses with certain requirements.  Everyone
> has their own opinion and I for one enjoy the open and honest discussion on
> these subjects.  Now that is the last I will say on the subject before the
> moderator gets upset.
> 
> Sandra
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Julie Johnson via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 11:02 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Julie Johnson
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] not sure if this post is allowed but have a question
> 
> I'd like to highlight something interesting in Sandra's post.
> *My main disapproval comes from being kicked by a mini horse guide in
> training that was at a national convention several years ago.  *
> 
> Just so I am understanding this correctly.  You oppose all mini horse guides
> because one acted inappropriately?  And you would feel the same about dogs?
> Dog's don't kick, at least not dangerously so, but they do certainly act
> inappropriately.  I'd be willing to bet anyone who has worked a guide dog
> for more than a few months has experienced their own dog acting up or been
> around another service dog who has.  The interesting thing is that we don't
> immediately decide dog's don't make good guides.  We instead conclude that
> the particular dog has issues that need attention.
> 
> 
> Julie
> On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com
> http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
> also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall
> <https://www.blindmicemegamall.com/bmm/shop/Directory_Departments?storeid=19
> 16046>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: S L Johnson via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 9:05 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: S L Johnson
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] not sure if this post is allowed but have a question
> 
> Buddy:
> 
> My information may be out of date but,a according to the information I have
> saved on my computer they changed it to be only dogs as being permitted as
> service animals.  I do not have the exact date of my information so if there
> is more recent language to the law, can someone post the link so all of us
> can have it.
> 
> Personally I do not think the mini horse is practical for all situations,
> especially as you said in small cars, public transportation restaurants
> etc...  However for someone living out in the country with the room to
> accommodate a mini horse then even though I do not approve, what you do is
> your business.  This conversation does show that better education is
> necessary so all places of public accommodation are completely aware of the
> latest language to the law.  I am sure that Ann can clear up any
> misconceptions that may exist.  My main disapproval comes from being kicked
> by a mini horse guide in training that was at a national convention several
> years ago.  Both me and my guide dog were injured when we walked too close
> behind that horse as we attempted to get out of a very crowded room.  I
> suppose since she was still in training her trainer should have been
> watching much more closely especially in a crowded room full of blind people
> and our dogs.  I am sorry if my opinion is upsetting to anyone.  I would
> feel the same way if a guide dog or one in training acts in a dangerous
> manner resulting in injury to me and my guide dog.  We do have to be sure
> that service animals in training are far enough along with their training
> that their behavior is appropriate to be out in public.  Thanks for reading.
> 
> Sandra Johnson
> SLJohnson25 at comcast.net
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Buddy Brannan via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 9:28 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Buddy Brannan
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] not sure if this post is allowed but have a question
> 
> Hey Ricky,
> 
> Baltimore has nothing to do with this. Miniature horses are, indeed, part of
> the ADA definition of service animal.
> 
> You are correct, however, that your friends are badly informed. A shocker, I
> know, you can pick yourself up off the floor now. Apparently one can house
> train a horse. But even besides that, they wear a diaper for those happy fun
> horse presents so that your hapless friends don't step in them. They might
> also wear little cut down tennis shoes. Anne can address this better, seeing
> as how she has a guide horse, and I'm fairly certain her horse doesn't take
> a dump wherever it likes for people to just step in.
> 
> I'd have more of a concern about the horse at rest, since you can't exactly
> put one under your chair since they don't really lie down. If you took an
> Uber, I'd think you really *would* ned an SUV at the very least. That would
> be more of a hindrance to me, but maybe not.
> 
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Mobile (preferred): (814) 431-0962
> Phone: (814) 860-3194
> Email: buddy at brannan.name
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:23 PM, Ricky Joe Cook via NAGDU 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I read on a FB post that Baltimore has approved miniature horses as 
>> service animals in the schools. The person and their friends who were 
>> posting were not informed about service animals and were even equating 
>> the horses to our dogs. I was just wondering how others felt about 
>> miniature horses as service animals. They were making comments like oh 
>> I guess they are going to let the horses just take a crap any where so 
>> we can step in it. It has me really pissed off and upset.
>> 
>> I am sorry if this topic isnb?Tt allowed here if so just let me know. 
>> If so feel free to Email me off list rickyjoecook at comcast.net
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Ricky Joe Cook & Darcy
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