[NAGDU] VRBO rentals

Mon Sep 18 10:32:02 UTC 2017

Daryl,

	First of all, please be aware that NAGDU has commented on the
proposed Canadian regulations, taking the stand that they are oppressive and
not conducive to friendly relations with travelers with guide dogs.

	As for your question about AirBnB, I am of the opinion that, since
the presence of a service dog is irrelevant since they cannot deny access
based upon that fact, we are no more required to divulge that information
than someone who is of a nonwhite race is required to do so. I believe the
DOJ has published some specific information about this topic and will look
for it later today. 

	You may also want to check out the laws of the state in which you
will be traveling to find out what specific remedies exist there. If you
contact the accommodations and tell them you have a guide dog, you may want
to do so in writing so you can get their reply in writing, as well. In this
way, we can better work to resolve such issues not only for you but for the
next service animal user that comes across this same problem. 

	If you would like to chat a bit about this, please feel free to give
me a call. My contact information is below my signature.

Fraternally yours,
Marion

Marion Gwizdala, President
National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU)
National Federation of the Blind
(813) 626-2789
President at NAGDU.ORG

The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the
characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind  people
and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is not what holds
you back.

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daryl Marie via
NAGDU
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2017 5:29 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Daryl Marie
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] VRBO rentals

I am following these posts with interest for many reasons.1) because I live
in Canada and have spoken out against the current proposed service dog
standards, as written.2) I plan on coming to visit the USA and using AirBnB
or VRBO rentals.While I do have a problem showing ID, I do plan on being
transparent about my guide dog when I book the rental, particularly if it
indicates it's not pet-friendly (not because I have to, but because I will
likely not be in a position to find alternate affordable accommodations on
the fly should I come across a problem).Would be interested in any thoughts
on this; I will be spending 1-2 nights in each accommodation spot when I do
travel, and I have time to set these things up; I'd rather know if someone
has a problem with me and/or my guide dog now rather than when I'm on my
trip trying to get in to the room/apartment I am renting.Thoughts?Daryl
----- Original Message -----
From: The Pawpower Pack via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: The Pawpower Pack <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
Sent: Sun, 17 Sep 2017 15:16:24 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] VRBO rentals

Another issue is, if you show your id, even when you then say, "I don't have
to," it sets an expectation for the next person after you to have one and
show one because "the person before you had one?" 
I then refuse to show one and have to spend another 5-20 minutes educating
them, showing them the law, all because the business owner doesn't
understand why I don't have one, and because I don't have one the business
owner/worker is thinking, is my dog realy for real? 
And yes you are going to do what you feel is right, my point being that your
choices will impact the people coming behind you. 
Best, 

Rox and the kitchen Bitches: 
Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
Pawpower4me at gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 17, 2017, at 2:32 PM, Julie Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
> 
> Janelle,
> 
> You are new to having a guide dog, so perhaps there are some things you
don't know or haven't thought about.
> 
> Where would this ID you are suggesting come from? If it's a program, what
gives them the authority? Or why would it be different if I opened my own
program and started making ID's for myself?
> 
> If the government is going to provide this ID, who is going to pay for it?
Remember there are laws preventing additional charges for being accompanied
by a service dog. Who is going to train these people?
> 
> What would make the dog legitimate? Remember that there are all sorts of
disabilities and varying needs within those disabilities. What if the way I
chose to work my dog is different from the next person, whose method is
right?
> 
> In order for a dog to be considered to be a service dog it must be
individually trained to do work or perform tasks for a person with a
disability. So if we go to this ID thing everyone who wants to work with a
service dog would need to prove their disability. That's pretty
straightforward for blindness, but what about a veteran with PTSD? How
exactly do you measure that? And is it ethical to do so?
> 
> And if that isn't enough food for thought, take a look at the recent
proposed guidelines in Canada. It isn't a law, but rather a set of
guidelines that would be used to formulate laws. It sets a bad precedent
though and if the U.S. goes that direction, I would stop using a guide dog
before letting someone in my home to determine whether or not I provide
enough play time for my dog and other similar seriously intrusive scrutiny.
> 
> I don't think the so called fake service dogs are a problem. I think the
problem is poorly trained dogs for actual people with actual disabilities.
Sure there are some truly selfish folks who fake a disability to take their
dog places it shouldn't be, but the much, much bigger problem is disabled
people trying to do the best they can with limited resources and coming up a
bit short. I think we need to put the focus on the behavior of the dog. I
also think any time and money spent on this issue would be best put to use
by developing programs that assist people with disabilities who want to work
with a service dog, but aren't willing or able to attend a traditional
program option.
> 
> Julie
> On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com 
> http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
> also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall 
> <https://www.blindmicemegamall.com/bmm/shop/Directory_Departments?stor
> eid=1916046> -----Original Message----- From: Janell via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2017 2:55 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Janell
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] VRBO rentals
> 
> Hello Wayne,
> 
> Thank you for clarifying the "certified" issue. I am 100% aware that my
guide dog ID is in no way a legal document. With that being said I have
absolutely no problem providing it. I did explain to the owner that I do not
have to provide anything but nevertheless I personally have no problem
showing it. And, quite frankly I think if we were asked to provide some form
of identification it would cut down on the imposter service animals out
there. I know that statement will most likely open a can of worms, but it is
my opinion. I will not chastise you on your opinion of not sharing an
identification, I would like to be afforded the same curtesy.
> -Janell
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Wayne & 
> Harley via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2017 12:28 PM
> To: Janell via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Wayne & Harley <k9dad at k9di.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] VRBO rentals
> 
> *Hello Ms. Janell,
> First of all I'm sorry the owner is acting like this about Sully. BTW:
> the ADA does apply, in this instance, since the rental is less than thirty
days.
> However, I would like to correct a misconception that you put forth in
your post.
> Sully is a Service Animal/Guide Dog under the law. He is not, however, a
"Certified" Service Animal/Guide Dog. The law does not require, nor
recognize such. Therefore, there is, in the United States at least, no such
thing as a "Certified Service Animal/Guide Dog".
> More worrisome, is your statement that you were ready to show Sully's
"certification". What form does this take? The ID issued to you by your
school?? That ID, literally, has zero legal standing. May I ask why would
you want to make life more difficult for Service Animal teams that this
owner would encounter after your family's time in her home was over? For
example, not everyone has a programme trained Service Animal. in fact,
outside of the Guide Dog Owning world the VAST majority of Service Animals
are Owner Trained. This is for a variety of reasons, that I will not bore
you with at this particular point in time. I am, however, one of the ranks
of Owner Trainers. My Harley D, while not trained by a programme is fully
trained as my Guide Dog. Now, hypothetically, what would happen if I
approached the homeowner about a rental for say, April. I informed her about
Harley D accompanying me and she demanded "Certification", "just like that
nice young person did in February".
> To recap, the homeowner, as per, the ADA, can only ask you the two legal
questions.
> Have a fabulous day!
> 
> Wayne And Harley D
> 
> *On 9/16/2017 2:40 PM, Janell via NAGDU wrote:
>> Hi gang,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I have a question about renting a VRBO house. My family has rented 
>> one in Florida next Feb for a week. When I made the reservation the 
>> lady told me I could not bring my guide dog Sully. I explained to her 
>> that he was an actual certified guide dog and not one of these crazy 
>> imposter ESA dogs. I even told her I would provide her a copy of his 
>> vet records and his certification documentation. Her response back to 
>> me was "someone else who rents from her is allergic to dogs so I would
not be able to bring Sully."
>> I am not sure of my rights regarding this? Any thoughts or advice 
>> would be appreciated!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Very frustrated, Janell and Sully
>> 
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> 
> 
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