[NAGDU] Guide dogs aroundthe world, current developments

Sat Apr 21 23:57:22 UTC 2018

Quite to my surprise--lol I find that I agree with you, Viviannna.

I've never understood this hogwash of retiring the dog by the calendar. 
One minute the dog's a guide dog, when it reaches say age  ten  all of 
the sudden you'd better not work the dog. Dogs love routine and love 
being with their people even more and frankly retiring a dog who loves 
to work could actually be more stressful for the dog. Also, and of 
course I'm not including things like you said medical issues and all 
that, but  I feel that I'm the one spending 24 hours a day with the dog 
paying med bills taking care of my hound, etc. and I think I have the 
adult maturity to make these decisions, not some higher authority or 
agency who just is looking at the calendar.

And the free run...well I try scrupulously not to criticize how other 
people do things considering that I feel how I do things with my dog is 
my own business unless it directly might affect others, and the same for 
other people...but I find the idea of the free run problematic for the 
reasons you mentioned, possible hazards to the dog and so on. I find it 
difficult to believe that a dog could be so reliable at recall  that 
there couldn't be a risk...let's put it this way, I've only been to 
Russia, Japan, and Mexico with a guide dog, no other place in Europe 
other than Russia, but I remember traveling to Europe in my pre-dog 
days, and I'm not convinced that everywhere is safe to free run just as 
here. At least under the conditions I've dealt with in my life I'd only 
be hapy allowing my dog to run free in an enclosed area say a fenced in 
area like my back yard...and gues what  if my dog were to be hurt or 
disappear or whatever, guess who would be blamed. But anyway, look I 
know that cultures and countries are different, we do things differently 
and peole tend to do what works for them and that may be true anywhere 
you go, but that's how it seems to me at least from what I know so far.

Dan the man with Parker the nut
On 4/21/2018 5:52 PM, Vivianna via NAGDU wrote:
> Hi All,
> IMO, this is another case of the schools attributing human feelings to dogs.
> They tell us that, we must retire the dog at the age of 10 so that the dog can have a fine and happy retirement life.  Do you really think that your dog wants you to ditch him just because he had a 10th birthday?  Do you really think that he will be happier sitting around all day long, every day, being someone els’s pet?
> No way!
> Of course, i completely agree with retiring a dog for medical issues or issues such as unsafe guiding, fears, effects of being attacked, etc.  but, not just because he reaches a certain age.
> The same thing for all of this free run thing.
> First of all, here in the USA, we have leash laws for a reason.  Next, you never know what your dog could eat.  Maybe he drinks from a puddle and gets giardia.  Maybe he eats a dead animal.  Maybe he gets attacked by other dogs.  Maybe he runs off and doesn’t come back.
> Once you remove that leash,you have no control over what the dog can do.
> What about other people, dogs, animals?
> Even if you have a sighted person with you, let me tell you, the dog can outrun a sighted person just as easily as he can outrun a blind one.
> And, who says that your dog is so totally and completely stressed out by his job that he can’t handle  it without all of this free running.
> Is it not enough that i play with my dog, i throw balls for him, i have toys for him, he can relax at home?  Most guides love their jobs and relish the opportunity to. Work.  They love being with their person and pleasing her/him.
>
> Needless to say, i am completely against free running of my dog.  Unless it’s in my own back yard.
>
> Vivianna
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 21, 2018, at 2:07 PM, Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> I don't get the leisure time thing. Here's why. My dog would be in harness when I take him out to work. When he is here, he is not in harness. So isn't his time now leisure time? There is no way on this earth that I would free run a dog unless I had a run in my yard that is fenced in. This doesn't mean I oppose others doing it. Clearly you are successful. If you go in the forest and free run your dog, are you taking a cane? If I were to go for nice long walks with my dog, he would get good exercise and so would I. Therefore, would free running be as important. I can understand the thinking that he isn't working so much then, but what then if I just took him on leash and took a cane?
>> Cindy Lou Ray
>> cindyray at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Lisa via NAGDU
>> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2018 11:54 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Lisa <dreamymarmot93 at yahoo.de>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Guide dogs aroundthe world, current developments
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>>
>> that's a very interesting topic!
>>
>> I'm from Germany, too, so with my guide, everything's very similar to what Bianka wrote.
>>
>> Where I live, I know some nice places to free run my dog. My boyfriend lives in Berlin and when we're there, we go to a big, fenced-in area, I think you could call it an off-leash park, to free run the dogs there.
>> We've both been taught that free running the dog is very important because working in harness is exhausting and requires a lot of concentration, so the dog needs leisure time as well. For us, it's very relaxing and a nice way to spend our free time to go for long walks in the forest or country with our dogs. We also use food rewards and I'm totally okay with that. In the beginning, it was an efficient way to recall the dog when off leash. Nowadays, I take them with me but don't use them all the time. Just every now and then.
>>
>>
>> Obviously, no one in their right mind would let the dog off leash near a busy street or in another dangerous area.
>>
>> A lot of guide dog programs over here make sure the new handler has a good place to free run the dog in their neighborhood, too. Sometimes, they practice a route to a good free run area in training.
>>
>> Well, I hope it's obvious that European guide dogs don't work in familiar areas only. The find commands aren't taught for that purpose, but for being independent in unfamiliar areas, too. You can tell your dog to find stairs, a lift, a counter, door and so on in an unfamiliar area. Of course no dog can always be 100% accurate and find everything.
>> But these commands are very, very helpful, especially when you _don't_ know the area.
>>
>> Lisa
>>> Am 21.04.2018 um 16:19 schrieb Gabriel Moloney via NAGDU:
>>> hi thats great that your current dog has great recall, and that it has your husband’s dog to play with, and for food rewards and clipper training I know, that it was and maybe is getting bigger in Europe now  I know it was in Ireland.  And again I suppose that it is up to us as individuals on if free runs is something that we want to do for our dogs and again it is great that your dog has very good recall, I know that my last dog was just ok with recall and the one before her was not  so his free running days ended, as i was not willing to give him food treats to bring him back to me while free running.
>>> cheers and kind regards
>>> gabriel
>>>
>>>> On 21 Apr 2018, at 14:56, Bianka Brankovic via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi gabriel and all,
>>>>
>>>> as for the free runs, my current dog has a very good recall when she is off leash and of course you wouldn’t want to let your dog run free near a street. My view on food rewards has drastically changed throughout the years. At first, I did not like them at all, now I use them on a regular basis. As for socializing, of course this is only encouraged during free runs. On leash contact may be allowed if your dog feels comfortable with it. When working, it is strongly discouraged, there might be some allowance if the other dog is sniffing your dog annyways. My current guide could care less for other dogs, she has my husband’s dog to play with and that’s mainly enough for her. My husband’s dog likes other dogs in general.
>>>>
>>>> As for the dog distraction issue, I personally believe dogs who have well socialized dogs to play with on a regular basis are better around other dogs. I have had two dogs with severe dog distractions, with one of them I could continue working for a while, the other had to be retired.
>>>>
>>>> Hope that clarifies it a bit.
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>
>>>> Bianka
>>>>
>>>>
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