[NAGDU] Input on flying
Peter Wolf
pwolf1 at wolfskills.com
Tue Aug 7 06:19:54 UTC 2018
Hey David in Clearwater, I’ll chime in along with you…
One of our dogs was sick tonight. We went to the vet. There, I pulled in the bunch of flying notes from you all. Thanks for that. I had copies printed right then at the counter, just to tuck them into our carry on bags and forget about them.
We too get some remarkable comments from TSA, those “wow, what amazingly well behaved dogs”. What kind of thugs do they usually get? Answer, the ones that lunge and snap at us almost every time we move through an airport, or worse yet, right at the gate when boarding.
Best wishes and happy flying,
Peter
On Aug 6, 2018, at 6:19 PM, nagdu-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
> (Michael Hingson)
> 2. Re: going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
> (Michael Forzano)
> 3. Re: going on US domestic flights with a guide dog (Andy Borka)
> 4. Re: going on US domestic flights with a guide dog (Andy Borka)
> 5. Re: going on US domestic flights with a guide dog (Andy Borka)
> 6. Re: going on US domestic flights with a guide dog (Andy Borka)
> 7. Re: going on US domestic flights with a guide dog (Andy Borka)
> 8. Re: going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
> (Michael Hingson)
> 9. Re: going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
> (Marianne Denning)
> 10. Re: going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
> (Jordan Gallacher)
> 11. Re: going on US domestic flights with a guide dog (Cindy Ray)
> 12. Re: going on US domestic flights with a guide dog (Andy Borka)
> 13. Re: going on US domestic flights with a guide dog (Andy Borka)
> 14. Re: going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
> (Jordan Gallacher)
> 15. Re: going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
> (Michael Hingson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 11:33:23 -0700
> From: "Michael Hingson" <mike at michaelhingson.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
> Message-ID: <004401d42db3$f65d90f0$e318b2d0$@michaelhingson.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I use Aira, although I have the Horizon system which is significantly better and does not, generally, have the connection issues. I do not give advanced notice to the airlines as they do not need it.
>
> For the most part, I find assistance from airport personnel to be less than helpful and not usually informative. I do prefer to preboard for all the obvious reasons stated by others, but I will do it on my terms.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Melissa Allman via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 10:21 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> I think it's worth a shot trying alone with Aira but I've had enough connectivity issues there that I would want the assistance arranged as a backup..
>
> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri Svendsen via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 11:24 AM
> To: Melissa Allman via NAGDU
> Cc: Keri Svendsen
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> Melissa,
>
>
> I let them know ahead of time too, since I like the assistance as well.
> Though now with Aira I might try sometime doing it alone.
>
>
> On 8/6/2018 11:11 AM, Melissa Allman via NAGDU wrote:
>> HI Dan. I typically ask for assistance getting to the gate an preboarding. I disclose in my reservation that I am blind traveling with a guide dog. Sometimes I get to the counter and find cluelessness about the accommodations I've put in there ahead of time but once they check the reservation it comes together. I often have to stand and wait for an escort provided by the airline to provide assistance getting through security and to the gate and then the decision becomes one about whether to attempt to go it alone or wait for one. Once I get to the gate I let the gate agent know I will need to preboard so they won't forget about me. I always place myself in a seat as close to the counter as possible so I am visible and I often just get up and start walking that direction when it is time to preboard because ultimately you have to rely on yourself. Preboarding is a nice way to get you and your dog on the flight and situated without having to push through throngs of people trying to get on and get access to the overhead compartments. Often I find the conversation goes something like this:
>>
>> Melissa: Good morning I am going to need some assistance getting to the gate and I'll need to preboard. That is in my reservation."
>> Agent: Ok no problem. So we need a wheelchair over here.
>> Melissa: No I do not need a wheelchair. I'm blind but I can walk just fine.
>> Agent: Okay.
>> Escort arriving: Ok mam good morning here's the wheelchair.
>> Melissa: I can walk just fine I don?t' need a wheelchair.
>> Rinke and repeat.
>>
>> Now that I have a dog the wheelchair thing seems to come up less but it still does but I never get in it. Sigh.
>>
>> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye,
>> Inc.
>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:57 AM
>> To: Mary Metzger via NAGDU
>> Cc: Dan Weiner
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>
>> thank you to all, I'm just anticipating that I'll have this type of
>> conversation:
>>
>> "is that a service dog (or ESA, or whatever term_.
>>
>> Dan "I'm blind and it's a guide dog"
>>
>> Air line person "but it doesn't show here that you filled out the form required for service dogs".
>>
>>
>> Dan: "There's probably a misunderstanding, I'm blind and he's a guide
>> dog and those requirements aren't needed for a guide dog".
>>
>> And so on and so on. I just envisage a lot of confusion, and I do
>> understand Melissa's point about talking to the airline in advance,
>> I'm curious what accommodations you ask for or can potentially ask
>> for, it might be something that would be good for me or my dog.
>>
>>
>> You take care
>>
>>
>> On 8/6/2018 9:49 AM, Mary Metzger via NAGDU wrote:
>>> My Seeing Eye dog and I recently traveled to and from Atlanta on Delta. Although I carried a rabies certificate with me I was not asked for any documentation regarding my dog.
>>>
>>> Mary Beth Metzger
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Melissa
>>> Allman via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:06 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>>
>>> Hi Dan and Parker. There is indeed a lot of confusion surrounding this issue. At this point, you do not need to provide documentation to the airlines proving that your dog is a guide dog or that you need to travel with a guide dog. You can show up as you did before if you would like. You should be able to check in on line or at curb side or at the counter. People traveling with emotional support animals can be required to complete documentation in advance of traveling which is unfortunately where the confusion stems from.
>>>
>>> If you decide you want or need accommodations, you can let the airline know. For example,, when I have flown American Airlines recently a couple of times and put in my reservation that I am traveling with a guide dog and need accommodations, it automatically brings up this form requesting information about the accommodations needed. Then they call you and ask for information about the weight and breed of your dog. You can either take the call or not. I tend to take the call because I have no objection to providing the information since I know they are not using it to prevent me from flying with my dog. I also know they cannot legally refuse to allow me to sit in the seat I've purchased so if I'm available I take the call and provide the information. Not all airlines do this, I'm just sharing my recent experiences with American.
>>>
>>> Personally, I prefer to let the airlines know ahead of time about the accommodations I'm requesting i.e. assistance getting to the gate and preboarding because I'm a planner. This is a personal choice.
>>>
>>> Delta is requiring that all service animal handlers (using the ACAA definition of service animals) carry a rabies certificate but I have been told that unless there's an issue delta will not generally ask people working with guide dogs to produce them and that they are doing it because of the problems associated with emotional support animals. Whether Delta should be requiring everybody traveling with a service animal to carry proof of rabies vaccination is another discussion that is not the focus of my email.
>>>
>>> International flights are another story and I won't' go into that, but I do want to remind everybody that on flights that last 8 hours or more airlines can ask for verification that the animal will not need to relieve during the flight or that if it does, the situation can be managed in a sanitary way.
>>>
>>> I hope that helps some.
>>>
>>> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
>>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
>>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
>>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner
>>> via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2018 6:55 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Cc: Dan Weiner
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello, beautiful people:
>>>
>>>
>>> Dan W. from Florida with the Parker dog here.
>>>
>>> I want to clear up something. I hear a lot lately about various airlines, Delta and United for example, requiring documentation, whether vet records or forms filled out for those of us who fly with in quotes service dogs. I put in quotes because I'm a guide dog user and that is what concerns me at this point.. Is any of this stuff applicable to us.
>>> I had always thought that in domestic flights in the US that the FAA regulations or air carrier access act allowed access without any additional rigamarole, essential in my traveling days, I would show up, on occasion I told when making the reservation that I had a dog, most times I didn't, and I literally had no problems. So what is the scoop nowadays. It concerns me that when I look at several of the guide dog school web sites here in the States that it seems like they are just going along with it telling students that "remember to check with the airlines about t required forms" or something strange like this.
>>>
>>> I haven't been flying in several years and am looking to get back in to traveling by air which of course includes my pup.
>>>
>>> Who can give me the definitive answer...am I as a guide dog user
>>> required to fill out these bizarre service dog forms or do anything
>>> else in advance or required to bring random documentation on domestic
>>> US air flights...I don't mean in quotes "oh the airlines are saying
>>> they want it so why not bring it..."smile, I mean the actual
>>> requirements, I've even herd from some fellow guide dog users saying
>>> "Oh I filled out the forrs and I had no problems the airline such
>>> and such was very
>>> nice"-- So I don't want that either, anyway you probably get it.
>>>
>>> Who wants to give me the skinny, the bottom line, the scoop...
>>>
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>>
>>> Dan and the Parker Hound
>>>
>>> smile
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>
> --
> Keri Svendsen
>
>
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 12:16:14 -0700
> From: Michael Forzano <michaeldforzano at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
> Message-ID:
> <CAKRnMMVt+BzJ-zZ1TU=Bvf-sygG18--ksBW=W=1za5DuiOpvEA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Totally agree about the airport assistance. I found it was adding so
> much stress to the whole experience, so I started navigating the
> airport without them. Best decision I've made as a frequent traveler
> and I'd encourage others on here to give it a try. I typically ask for
> help along the way, for example which way is security? Most people are
> happy to help at least point you in the right direction or walk you
> part of the way to wherever you're going. You might even meet someone
> going the same way. It's a great opportunity to strike up a
> conversation as well.
>
> When I first started doing this, I tried it at my home airport, which
> I was already somewhat familiar with, and on shorter flights so that I
> could show up a little earlier (with the flight being short, it wasn't
> a big deal for my dog to wait an extra half hour to relieve).
> Gradually I've built up confidence and found that even in the worst
> case scenario (getting lost), it's less stressful than dealing with
> the wheelchair and communication issues that come with using the
> airport assistance. It also gives me the freedom to explore, grab some
> food or coffee, etc. I've found the airport workers typically just
> want to deliver me to my gate and don't have the patience, or can't
> speak enough English, to describe my surroundings to me.
>
> Hope this helps, and happy to answer any questions. I do this at least monthly.
>
> Mike
>
> On 8/6/18, Michael Hingson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> I use Aira, although I have the Horizon system which is significantly better
>> and does not, generally, have the connection issues. I do not give advanced
>> notice to the airlines as they do not need it.
>>
>> For the most part, I find assistance from airport personnel to be less than
>> helpful and not usually informative. I do prefer to preboard for all the
>> obvious reasons stated by others, but I will do it on my terms.
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>>
>> Michael Hingson
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Melissa Allman via NAGDU
>> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 10:21 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>
>> I think it's worth a shot trying alone with Aira but I've had enough
>> connectivity issues there that I would want the assistance arranged as a
>> backup..
>>
>> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Keri Svendsen via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 11:24 AM
>> To: Melissa Allman via NAGDU
>> Cc: Keri Svendsen
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>
>> Melissa,
>>
>>
>> I let them know ahead of time too, since I like the assistance as well.
>> Though now with Aira I might try sometime doing it alone.
>>
>>
>> On 8/6/2018 11:11 AM, Melissa Allman via NAGDU wrote:
>>> HI Dan. I typically ask for assistance getting to the gate an preboarding.
>>> I disclose in my reservation that I am blind traveling with a guide dog.
>>> Sometimes I get to the counter and find cluelessness about the
>>> accommodations I've put in there ahead of time but once they check the
>>> reservation it comes together. I often have to stand and wait for an
>>> escort provided by the airline to provide assistance getting through
>>> security and to the gate and then the decision becomes one about whether
>>> to attempt to go it alone or wait for one. Once I get to the gate I let
>>> the gate agent know I will need to preboard so they won't forget about me.
>>> I always place myself in a seat as close to the counter as possible so I
>>> am visible and I often just get up and start walking that direction when
>>> it is time to preboard because ultimately you have to rely on yourself.
>>> Preboarding is a nice way to get you and your dog on the flight and
>>> situated without having to push through throngs of people trying to get on
>>> and get access to the overhead compartments. Often I find the conversation
>>> goes something like this:
>>>
>>> Melissa: Good morning I am going to need some assistance getting to the
>>> gate and I'll need to preboard. That is in my reservation."
>>> Agent: Ok no problem. So we need a wheelchair over here.
>>> Melissa: No I do not need a wheelchair. I'm blind but I can walk just
>>> fine.
>>> Agent: Okay.
>>> Escort arriving: Ok mam good morning here's the wheelchair.
>>> Melissa: I can walk just fine I don?t' need a wheelchair.
>>> Rinke and repeat.
>>>
>>> Now that I have a dog the wheelchair thing seems to come up less but it
>>> still does but I never get in it. Sigh.
>>>
>>> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
>>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye,
>>> Inc.
>>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
>>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner
>>> via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:57 AM
>>> To: Mary Metzger via NAGDU
>>> Cc: Dan Weiner
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>>
>>> thank you to all, I'm just anticipating that I'll have this type of
>>> conversation:
>>>
>>> "is that a service dog (or ESA, or whatever term_.
>>>
>>> Dan "I'm blind and it's a guide dog"
>>>
>>> Air line person "but it doesn't show here that you filled out the form
>>> required for service dogs".
>>>
>>>
>>> Dan: "There's probably a misunderstanding, I'm blind and he's a guide
>>> dog and those requirements aren't needed for a guide dog".
>>>
>>> And so on and so on. I just envisage a lot of confusion, and I do
>>> understand Melissa's point about talking to the airline in advance,
>>> I'm curious what accommodations you ask for or can potentially ask
>>> for, it might be something that would be good for me or my dog.
>>>
>>>
>>> You take care
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/6/2018 9:49 AM, Mary Metzger via NAGDU wrote:
>>>> My Seeing Eye dog and I recently traveled to and from Atlanta on Delta.
>>>> Although I carried a rabies certificate with me I was not asked for any
>>>> documentation regarding my dog.
>>>>
>>>> Mary Beth Metzger
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Melissa
>>>> Allman via NAGDU
>>>> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:06 AM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>>>
>>>> Hi Dan and Parker. There is indeed a lot of confusion surrounding this
>>>> issue. At this point, you do not need to provide documentation to the
>>>> airlines proving that your dog is a guide dog or that you need to travel
>>>> with a guide dog. You can show up as you did before if you would like.
>>>> You should be able to check in on line or at curb side or at the counter.
>>>> People traveling with emotional support animals can be required to
>>>> complete documentation in advance of traveling which is unfortunately
>>>> where the confusion stems from.
>>>>
>>>> If you decide you want or need accommodations, you can let the airline
>>>> know. For example,, when I have flown American Airlines recently a couple
>>>> of times and put in my reservation that I am traveling with a guide dog
>>>> and need accommodations, it automatically brings up this form requesting
>>>> information about the accommodations needed. Then they call you and ask
>>>> for information about the weight and breed of your dog. You can either
>>>> take the call or not. I tend to take the call because I have no objection
>>>> to providing the information since I know they are not using it to
>>>> prevent me from flying with my dog. I also know they cannot legally
>>>> refuse to allow me to sit in the seat I've purchased so if I'm available
>>>> I take the call and provide the information. Not all airlines do this,
>>>> I'm just sharing my recent experiences with American.
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I prefer to let the airlines know ahead of time about the
>>>> accommodations I'm requesting i.e. assistance getting to the gate and
>>>> preboarding because I'm a planner. This is a personal choice.
>>>>
>>>> Delta is requiring that all service animal handlers (using the ACAA
>>>> definition of service animals) carry a rabies certificate but I have been
>>>> told that unless there's an issue delta will not generally ask people
>>>> working with guide dogs to produce them and that they are doing it
>>>> because of the problems associated with emotional support animals.
>>>> Whether Delta should be requiring everybody traveling with a service
>>>> animal to carry proof of rabies vaccination is another discussion that is
>>>> not the focus of my email.
>>>>
>>>> International flights are another story and I won't' go into that, but I
>>>> do want to remind everybody that on flights that last 8 hours or more
>>>> airlines can ask for verification that the animal will not need to
>>>> relieve during the flight or that if it does, the situation can be
>>>> managed in a sanitary way.
>>>>
>>>> I hope that helps some.
>>>>
>>>> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
>>>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
>>>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>>>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
>>>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner
>>>> via NAGDU
>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2018 6:55 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Cc: Dan Weiner
>>>> Subject: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello, beautiful people:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dan W. from Florida with the Parker dog here.
>>>>
>>>> I want to clear up something. I hear a lot lately about various
>>>> airlines, Delta and United for example, requiring documentation, whether
>>>> vet records or forms filled out for those of us who fly with in quotes
>>>> service dogs. I put in quotes because I'm a guide dog user and that is
>>>> what concerns me at this point.. Is any of this stuff applicable to us.
>>>> I had always thought that in domestic flights in the US that the FAA
>>>> regulations or air carrier access act allowed access without any
>>>> additional rigamarole, essential in my traveling days, I would show up,
>>>> on occasion I told when making the reservation that I had a dog, most
>>>> times I didn't, and I literally had no problems. So what is the scoop
>>>> nowadays. It concerns me that when I look at several of the guide dog
>>>> school web sites here in the States that it seems like they are just
>>>> going along with it telling students that "remember to check with the
>>>> airlines about t required forms" or something strange like this.
>>>>
>>>> I haven't been flying in several years and am looking to get back in to
>>>> traveling by air which of course includes my pup.
>>>>
>>>> Who can give me the definitive answer...am I as a guide dog user
>>>> required to fill out these bizarre service dog forms or do anything
>>>> else in advance or required to bring random documentation on domestic
>>>> US air flights...I don't mean in quotes "oh the airlines are saying
>>>> they want it so why not bring it..."smile, I mean the actual
>>>> requirements, I've even herd from some fellow guide dog users saying
>>>> "Oh I filled out the forrs and I had no problems the airline such
>>>> and such was very
>>>> nice"-- So I don't want that either, anyway you probably get it.
>>>>
>>>> Who wants to give me the skinny, the bottom line, the scoop...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yours,
>>>>
>>>> Dan and the Parker Hound
>>>>
>>>> smile
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> NAGDU:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mallman%40seeingey
>>>> e.org _______________________________________________
>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> NAGDU:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mmetzger1%40nycap.
>>>> rr.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NAGDU mailing list
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>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> NAGDU:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dcwein%40dcwein.cn
>>>> c.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
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>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail.com
>>
>> --
>> Keri Svendsen
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> https://www.avg.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 18:13:30 -0400
> From: "Andy Borka" <sonfire11 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
> Message-ID: <002e01d42dd2$b5c07ca0$214175e0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> American told me once that they insist on wheelchairs for two reasons:
> 1. The employees at the airport are not airline carrier employees. Instead, they are airport employees, which the airline carriers contract through to provide service. This means that the airport employees, unless TSA employees, are not trained on disability specific problems such as dealing with blind people and guide dogs. Thus, they assume every disabled person needs a wheelchair.
> 2. Like hospitals, a disabled or injured person poses a liability risk on the hospital's insurance. The same with bus terminals, airports, and train stations.
>
> Looks like more education on disability related training needs to happen with terminals, and insist that you aren't a liability risk during your visit at the terminal. It throws most employees off kilter enough to get the point across.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Janell via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 1:03 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: nellie at culodge.com
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> I flew to O'Hare in Chicago. For my return trip I got to O'Hare and asked for assistance to my gate. They plopped me down somewhere by some desk and I waited for what seemed like forever. I finally heard someone (employee) go to the desk and grab a wheelchair. Not thinking it was for me I didn?t say anything. The employee got over to me and she was a lady from India. She sort of tapped my shoulder and said something I couldn?t understand. I stood up to start walking and she sort of pushed the wheelchair up from behind me so I had no choice to sit down. I could not understand one word she was trying to tell me. I stood up and said I can walk just fine and I am not using a wheelchair. Then we started walking to my gate and she kept muttering "go there, or turn there.) She could tell of my frustration so she grabbed my elbow. I stopped and agreed to grab hers because I knew I was cutting it very close to my departure, and I have tons of anxiety when flying so I was done arguing. I finally got to the security check and she passed me off to a very nice man who got me the rest of the way.
>
> Why do employees assume blind people need a wheelchair?
>
> On both of my flights that week (united) the flight crew were fantastic and went above and beyond to insure Sully and I were both comfortable. In fact, a young man crew member even came to me before they do their speech on emergency landings etc. and did a one on one session with just me. I have flown for about 20 years since I have been blind and I have never once had an employee take the time to do that.
>
> Happy Monday, Janell and Sully
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Melissa Allman via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 10:11 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> HI Dan. I typically ask for assistance getting to the gate an preboarding. I disclose in my reservation that I am blind traveling with a guide dog. Sometimes I get to the counter and find cluelessness about the accommodations I've put in there ahead of time but once they check the reservation it comes together. I often have to stand and wait for an escort provided by the airline to provide assistance getting through security and to the gate and then the decision becomes one about whether to attempt to go it alone or wait for one. Once I get to the gate I let the gate agent know I will need to preboard so they won't forget about me. I always place myself in a seat as close to the counter as possible so I am visible and I often just get up and start walking that direction when it is time to preboard because ultimately you have to rely on yourself. Preboarding is a nice way to get you and your dog on the flight and situated without having to push through throngs of people trying to get on and get access to the overhead compartments. Often I find the conversation goes something like this:
>
> Melissa: Good morning I am going to need some assistance getting to the gate and I'll need to preboard. That is in my reservation."
> Agent: Ok no problem. So we need a wheelchair over here.
> Melissa: No I do not need a wheelchair. I'm blind but I can walk just fine.
> Agent: Okay.
> Escort arriving: Ok mam good morning here's the wheelchair.
> Melissa: I can walk just fine I don?t' need a wheelchair.
> Rinke and repeat.
>
> Now that I have a dog the wheelchair thing seems to come up less but it still does but I never get in it. Sigh.
>
> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:57 AM
> To: Mary Metzger via NAGDU
> Cc: Dan Weiner
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> thank you to all, I'm just anticipating that I'll have this type of
> conversation:
>
> "is that a service dog (or ESA, or whatever term_.
>
> Dan "I'm blind and it's a guide dog"
>
> Air line person "but it doesn't show here that you filled out the form required for service dogs".
>
>
> Dan: "There's probably a misunderstanding, I'm blind and he's a guide dog and those requirements aren't needed for a guide dog".
>
> And so on and so on. I just envisage a lot of confusion, and I do understand Melissa's point about talking to the airline in advance, I'm curious what accommodations you ask for or can potentially ask for, it might be something that would be good for me or my dog.
>
>
> You take care
>
>
> On 8/6/2018 9:49 AM, Mary Metzger via NAGDU wrote:
>> My Seeing Eye dog and I recently traveled to and from Atlanta on Delta. Although I carried a rabies certificate with me I was not asked for any documentation regarding my dog.
>>
>> Mary Beth Metzger
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Melissa
>> Allman via NAGDU
>> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:06 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>
>> Hi Dan and Parker. There is indeed a lot of confusion surrounding this issue. At this point, you do not need to provide documentation to the airlines proving that your dog is a guide dog or that you need to travel with a guide dog. You can show up as you did before if you would like. You should be able to check in on line or at curb side or at the counter. People traveling with emotional support animals can be required to complete documentation in advance of traveling which is unfortunately where the confusion stems from.
>>
>> If you decide you want or need accommodations, you can let the airline know. For example,, when I have flown American Airlines recently a couple of times and put in my reservation that I am traveling with a guide dog and need accommodations, it automatically brings up this form requesting information about the accommodations needed. Then they call you and ask for information about the weight and breed of your dog. You can either take the call or not. I tend to take the call because I have no objection to providing the information since I know they are not using it to prevent me from flying with my dog. I also know they cannot legally refuse to allow me to sit in the seat I've purchased so if I'm available I take the call and provide the information. Not all airlines do this, I'm just sharing my recent experiences with American.
>>
>> Personally, I prefer to let the airlines know ahead of time about the accommodations I'm requesting i.e. assistance getting to the gate and preboarding because I'm a planner. This is a personal choice.
>>
>> Delta is requiring that all service animal handlers (using the ACAA definition of service animals) carry a rabies certificate but I have been told that unless there's an issue delta will not generally ask people working with guide dogs to produce them and that they are doing it because of the problems associated with emotional support animals. Whether Delta should be requiring everybody traveling with a service animal to carry proof of rabies vaccination is another discussion that is not the focus of my email.
>>
>> International flights are another story and I won't' go into that, but I do want to remind everybody that on flights that last 8 hours or more airlines can ask for verification that the animal will not need to relieve during the flight or that if it does, the situation can be managed in a sanitary way.
>>
>> I hope that helps some.
>>
>> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2018 6:55 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Dan Weiner
>> Subject: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>
>>
>> Hello, beautiful people:
>>
>>
>> Dan W. from Florida with the Parker dog here.
>>
>> I want to clear up something. I hear a lot lately about various airlines, Delta and United for example, requiring documentation, whether vet records or forms filled out for those of us who fly with in quotes service dogs. I put in quotes because I'm a guide dog user and that is what concerns me at this point.. Is any of this stuff applicable to us.
>> I had always thought that in domestic flights in the US that the FAA regulations or air carrier access act allowed access without any additional rigamarole, essential in my traveling days, I would show up, on occasion I told when making the reservation that I had a dog, most times I didn't, and I literally had no problems. So what is the scoop nowadays. It concerns me that when I look at several of the guide dog school web sites here in the States that it seems like they are just going along with it telling students that "remember to check with the airlines about t required forms" or something strange like this.
>>
>> I haven't been flying in several years and am looking to get back in to traveling by air which of course includes my pup.
>>
>> Who can give me the definitive answer...am I as a guide dog user
>> required to fill out these bizarre service dog forms or do anything
>> else in advance or required to bring random documentation on domestic
>> US air flights...I don't mean in quotes "oh the airlines are saying
>> they want it so why not bring it..."smile, I mean the actual
>> requirements, I've even herd from some fellow guide dog users saying
>> "Oh I filled out the forrs and I had no problems the airline such and
>> such was very
>> nice"-- So I don't want that either, anyway you probably get it.
>>
>> Who wants to give me the skinny, the bottom line, the scoop...
>>
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Dan and the Parker Hound
>>
>> smile
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mallman%40seeingeye
>> .org _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mmetzger1%40nycap.r
>> r.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dcwein%40dcwein.cnc
>> .net
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mallman%40seeingeye.org
> _______________________________________________
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> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/nellie%40culodge.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sonfire11%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 18:16:58 -0400
> From: "Andy Borka" <sonfire11 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
> Message-ID: <003001d42dd3$318b9e50$94a2daf0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Just use your guide dog school's version of the straight command. Everything
> should be fine after that point.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Jordan Gallacher via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 12:31 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Jordan Gallacher <jordangandbelto at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> I have done it with Aira a couple of times, and your only challenge might be
> if you have a dog that likes wandering around instead of following a
> straight path. For the most part except for Delta, I have never had an
> issue flying with my dogs.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Melissa Allman via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 10:16 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> I have also found that Luna hs been well received and treated kindly by
> flight attendants.
>
> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 10:29 AM
> To: Dan Weiner via NAGDU
> Cc: David
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> There is no form for service dogs, Dan. I always carry a rabies
> certificate, but that's it. 'Never been asked. I do usually ask for help
> scheduling enough time for Claire to relieve herself outside the terminal
> when we have connections. Claire refuses to enter airport relieving areas -
> inside the terminal, or outside the terminal. Fortunately, she will go in
> the street, beside the curb.
>
> I have found that airline personnel do not mind having a 'real' service dog
> on board. They've told me incredible stories about the behavior of ESAs.
> In fact, more than once, I have been told, "We are so glad to have a real
> service dog on board. Let us know if we can do anything for your her."
>
> *David in Clearwater, FL*
> *david at bakerinet.com
>
> *
> On 8/6/2018 9:56 AM, Dan Weiner via NAGDU wrote:
>> thank you to all, I'm just anticipating that I'll have this type of
>> conversation:
>>
>> "is that a service dog (or ESA, or whatever term_.
>>
>> Dan "I'm blind and it's a guide dog"
>>
>> Air line person "but it doesn't show here that you filled out the form
>> required for service dogs".
>>
>>
>> Dan: "There's probably a misunderstanding, I'm blind and he's a guide
>> dog and those requirements aren't needed for a guide dog".
>>
>> And so on and so on. I just envisage a lot of confusion, and I do
>> understand Melissa's point about talking to the airline in advance,
>> I'm curious what accommodations you ask for or can potentially ask
>> for, it might be something that would be good for me or my dog.
>>
>>
>> You take care
>>
>>
>> On 8/6/2018 9:49 AM, Mary Metzger via NAGDU wrote:
>>> My Seeing Eye dog and I recently traveled to and from Atlanta on
>>> Delta. Although I carried a rabies certificate with me I was not
>>> asked for any documentation regarding my dog.
>>>
>>> Mary Beth Metzger
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Melissa
>>> Allman via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:06 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>>
>>> Hi Dan and Parker. There is indeed a lot of confusion surrounding
>>> this issue. At this point, you do not need to provide documentation
>>> to the airlines proving that your dog is a guide dog or that you need
>>> to travel with a guide dog. You can show up as you did before if you
>>> would like. You should be able to check in on line or at curb side or
>>> at the counter. People traveling with emotional support animals can
>>> be required to complete documentation in advance of traveling which
>>> is unfortunately where the confusion stems from.
>>>
>>> If you decide you want or need accommodations, you can let the
>>> airline know. For example,, when I have flown American Airlines
>>> recently a couple of times and put in my reservation that I am
>>> traveling with a guide dog and need accommodations, it automatically
>>> brings up this form requesting information about the accommodations
>>> needed. Then they call you and ask for information about the weight
>>> and breed of your dog. You can either take the call or not. I tend to
>>> take the call because I have no objection to providing the
>>> information since I know they are not using it to prevent me from
>>> flying with my dog. I also know they cannot legally refuse to allow
>>> me to sit in the seat I've purchased so if I'm available I take the
>>> call and provide the information. Not all airlines do this, I'm just
>>> sharing my recent experiences with American.
>>>
>>> Personally, I prefer to let the airlines know ahead of time about the
>>> accommodations I'm requesting i.e. assistance getting to the gate and
>>> preboarding because I'm a planner. This is a personal choice.
>>>
>>> Delta is requiring that all service animal handlers (using the ACAA
>>> definition of service animals) carry a rabies certificate but I have
>>> been told that unless there's an issue delta will not generally ask
>>> people working with guide dogs to produce them and that they are
>>> doing it because of the problems associated with emotional support
>>> animals. Whether Delta should be requiring everybody traveling with a
>>> service animal to carry proof of rabies vaccination is another
>>> discussion that is not the focus of my email.
>>>
>>> International flights are another story and I won't' go into that,
>>> but I do want to remind everybody that on flights that last 8 hours
>>> or more airlines can ask for verification that the animal will not
>>> need to relieve during the flight or that if it does, the situation
>>> can be managed in a sanitary way.
>>>
>>> I hope that helps some.
>>>
>>> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
>>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye,
>>> Inc.
>>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
>>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner
>>> via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2018 6:55 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Cc: Dan Weiner
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello, beautiful people:
>>>
>>>
>>> Dan W. from Florida with the Parker dog here.
>>>
>>> I want to clear up something. I hear a lot lately about various
>>> airlines, Delta and United for example, requiring documentation,
>>> whether vet records or forms filled out for those of us who fly with
>>> in quotes service dogs. I put in quotes because I'm a guide dog user
>>> and that is what concerns me at this point.. Is any of this stuff
>>> applicable to us.
>>> I had always thought that in domestic flights in the US that the FAA
>>> regulations or air carrier access act allowed access without any
>>> additional rigamarole, essential in my traveling days, I would show
>>> up, on occasion I told when making the reservation that I had a dog,
>>> most times I didn't, and I literally had no problems. So what is the
>>> scoop nowadays. It concerns me that when I look at several of the
>>> guide dog school web sites here in the States that it seems like they
>>> are just going along with it telling students that "remember to
>>> check with the airlines about t required forms" or something strange
>>> like this.
>>>
>>> I haven't been flying in several years and am looking to get back in
>>> to traveling by air which of course includes my pup.
>>>
>>> Who can give me the definitive answer...am I as a guide dog user
>>> required to fill out these bizarre service dog forms or do anything
>>> else in advance or required to bring random documentation on domestic
>>> US air flights...I don't mean in quotes "oh the airlines are saying
>>> they want it so why not bring it..."smile, I mean the actual
>>> requirements, I've even herd from some fellow guide dog users saying
>>> "Oh I filled out the forrs and I had no problems the airline such
>>> and such was very
>>> nice"-- So I don't want that either, anyway you probably get it.
>>>
>>> Who wants to give me the skinny, the bottom line, the scoop...
>>>
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>>
>>> Dan and the Parker Hound
>>>
>>> smile
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mallman%40seeingey
>>> e.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mmetzger1%40nycap.
>>> rr.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dcwein%40dcwein.cn
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 18:19:06 -0400
> From: "Andy Borka" <sonfire11 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
> Message-ID: <003901d42dd3$7d890c70$789b2550$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I always ask for help when getting to the airport. Alec is an expert with follow, especially in massive crowds of people. We might be able to hussle and follow the helper.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Keri Svendsen via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 11:24 AM
> To: Melissa Allman via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Keri Svendsen <keribcu at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> Melissa,
>
>
> I let them know ahead of time too, since I like the assistance as well.
> Though now with Aira I might try sometime doing it alone.
>
>
> On 8/6/2018 11:11 AM, Melissa Allman via NAGDU wrote:
>> HI Dan. I typically ask for assistance getting to the gate an preboarding. I disclose in my reservation that I am blind traveling with a guide dog. Sometimes I get to the counter and find cluelessness about the accommodations I've put in there ahead of time but once they check the reservation it comes together. I often have to stand and wait for an escort provided by the airline to provide assistance getting through security and to the gate and then the decision becomes one about whether to attempt to go it alone or wait for one. Once I get to the gate I let the gate agent know I will need to preboard so they won't forget about me. I always place myself in a seat as close to the counter as possible so I am visible and I often just get up and start walking that direction when it is time to preboard because ultimately you have to rely on yourself. Preboarding is a nice way to get you and your dog on the flight and situated without having to push through throngs of people trying to get on and get access to the overhead compartments. Often I find the conversation goes something like this:
>>
>> Melissa: Good morning I am going to need some assistance getting to the gate and I'll need to preboard. That is in my reservation."
>> Agent: Ok no problem. So we need a wheelchair over here.
>> Melissa: No I do not need a wheelchair. I'm blind but I can walk just fine.
>> Agent: Okay.
>> Escort arriving: Ok mam good morning here's the wheelchair.
>> Melissa: I can walk just fine I don?t' need a wheelchair.
>> Rinke and repeat.
>>
>> Now that I have a dog the wheelchair thing seems to come up less but it still does but I never get in it. Sigh.
>>
>> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye,
>> Inc.
>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:57 AM
>> To: Mary Metzger via NAGDU
>> Cc: Dan Weiner
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>
>> thank you to all, I'm just anticipating that I'll have this type of
>> conversation:
>>
>> "is that a service dog (or ESA, or whatever term_.
>>
>> Dan "I'm blind and it's a guide dog"
>>
>> Air line person "but it doesn't show here that you filled out the form required for service dogs".
>>
>>
>> Dan: "There's probably a misunderstanding, I'm blind and he's a guide
>> dog and those requirements aren't needed for a guide dog".
>>
>> And so on and so on. I just envisage a lot of confusion, and I do
>> understand Melissa's point about talking to the airline in advance,
>> I'm curious what accommodations you ask for or can potentially ask
>> for, it might be something that would be good for me or my dog.
>>
>>
>> You take care
>>
>>
>> On 8/6/2018 9:49 AM, Mary Metzger via NAGDU wrote:
>>> My Seeing Eye dog and I recently traveled to and from Atlanta on Delta. Although I carried a rabies certificate with me I was not asked for any documentation regarding my dog.
>>>
>>> Mary Beth Metzger
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Melissa
>>> Allman via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:06 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>>
>>> Hi Dan and Parker. There is indeed a lot of confusion surrounding this issue. At this point, you do not need to provide documentation to the airlines proving that your dog is a guide dog or that you need to travel with a guide dog. You can show up as you did before if you would like. You should be able to check in on line or at curb side or at the counter. People traveling with emotional support animals can be required to complete documentation in advance of traveling which is unfortunately where the confusion stems from.
>>>
>>> If you decide you want or need accommodations, you can let the airline know. For example,, when I have flown American Airlines recently a couple of times and put in my reservation that I am traveling with a guide dog and need accommodations, it automatically brings up this form requesting information about the accommodations needed. Then they call you and ask for information about the weight and breed of your dog. You can either take the call or not. I tend to take the call because I have no objection to providing the information since I know they are not using it to prevent me from flying with my dog. I also know they cannot legally refuse to allow me to sit in the seat I've purchased so if I'm available I take the call and provide the information. Not all airlines do this, I'm just sharing my recent experiences with American.
>>>
>>> Personally, I prefer to let the airlines know ahead of time about the accommodations I'm requesting i.e. assistance getting to the gate and preboarding because I'm a planner. This is a personal choice.
>>>
>>> Delta is requiring that all service animal handlers (using the ACAA definition of service animals) carry a rabies certificate but I have been told that unless there's an issue delta will not generally ask people working with guide dogs to produce them and that they are doing it because of the problems associated with emotional support animals. Whether Delta should be requiring everybody traveling with a service animal to carry proof of rabies vaccination is another discussion that is not the focus of my email.
>>>
>>> International flights are another story and I won't' go into that, but I do want to remind everybody that on flights that last 8 hours or more airlines can ask for verification that the animal will not need to relieve during the flight or that if it does, the situation can be managed in a sanitary way.
>>>
>>> I hope that helps some.
>>>
>>> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
>>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
>>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
>>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner
>>> via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2018 6:55 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Cc: Dan Weiner
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello, beautiful people:
>>>
>>>
>>> Dan W. from Florida with the Parker dog here.
>>>
>>> I want to clear up something. I hear a lot lately about various airlines, Delta and United for example, requiring documentation, whether vet records or forms filled out for those of us who fly with in quotes service dogs. I put in quotes because I'm a guide dog user and that is what concerns me at this point.. Is any of this stuff applicable to us.
>>> I had always thought that in domestic flights in the US that the FAA regulations or air carrier access act allowed access without any additional rigamarole, essential in my traveling days, I would show up, on occasion I told when making the reservation that I had a dog, most times I didn't, and I literally had no problems. So what is the scoop nowadays. It concerns me that when I look at several of the guide dog school web sites here in the States that it seems like they are just going along with it telling students that "remember to check with the airlines about t required forms" or something strange like this.
>>>
>>> I haven't been flying in several years and am looking to get back in to traveling by air which of course includes my pup.
>>>
>>> Who can give me the definitive answer...am I as a guide dog user
>>> required to fill out these bizarre service dog forms or do anything
>>> else in advance or required to bring random documentation on domestic
>>> US air flights...I don't mean in quotes "oh the airlines are saying
>>> they want it so why not bring it..."smile, I mean the actual
>>> requirements, I've even herd from some fellow guide dog users saying
>>> "Oh I filled out the forrs and I had no problems the airline such
>>> and such was very
>>> nice"-- So I don't want that either, anyway you probably get it.
>>>
>>> Who wants to give me the skinny, the bottom line, the scoop...
>>>
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>>
>>> Dan and the Parker Hound
>>>
>>> smile
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mallman%40seeingey
>>> e.org _______________________________________________
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>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mmetzger1%40nycap.
>>> rr.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dcwein%40dcwein.cn
>>> c.net
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mallman%40seeingeye
>> .org _______________________________________________
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>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/keribcu%40gmail.com
>
> --
> Keri Svendsen
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sonfire11%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 18:25:05 -0400
> From: "Andy Borka" <sonfire11 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
> Message-ID: <003b01d42dd4$53a47330$faed5990$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On my way home from class, I found not only AA employees treating Alec well, the passengers on the plane treated him just as well. In fact, I ended up talking to another passenger sitting next to me for the entire 2 hour flight about Seeing Eye and guide dogs. Just to find a line of exiting passengers waiting for us to harness up. I told them to go ahead, but the entire line of people said to take our time. On the way out of the plane, the flight attendant made a comment about how quiet the dog was... She forgot he was on the plane until she walked by and saw his head poking out from the seet in front of us.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Melissa Allman via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 11:16 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> I have also found that Luna hs been well received and treated kindly by flight attendants.
>
> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 10:29 AM
> To: Dan Weiner via NAGDU
> Cc: David
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> There is no form for service dogs, Dan. I always carry a rabies certificate, but that's it. 'Never been asked. I do usually ask for help scheduling enough time for Claire to relieve herself outside the terminal when we have connections. Claire refuses to enter airport relieving areas - inside the terminal, or outside the terminal. Fortunately, she will go in the street, beside the curb.
>
> I have found that airline personnel do not mind having a 'real' service dog on board. They've told me incredible stories about the behavior of ESAs. In fact, more than once, I have been told, "We are so glad to have a real service dog on board. Let us know if we can do anything for your her."
>
> *David in Clearwater, FL*
> *david at bakerinet.com
>
> *
> On 8/6/2018 9:56 AM, Dan Weiner via NAGDU wrote:
>> thank you to all, I'm just anticipating that I'll have this type of
>> conversation:
>>
>> "is that a service dog (or ESA, or whatever term_.
>>
>> Dan "I'm blind and it's a guide dog"
>>
>> Air line person "but it doesn't show here that you filled out the form
>> required for service dogs".
>>
>>
>> Dan: "There's probably a misunderstanding, I'm blind and he's a guide
>> dog and those requirements aren't needed for a guide dog".
>>
>> And so on and so on. I just envisage a lot of confusion, and I do
>> understand Melissa's point about talking to the airline in advance,
>> I'm curious what accommodations you ask for or can potentially ask
>> for, it might be something that would be good for me or my dog.
>>
>>
>> You take care
>>
>>
>> On 8/6/2018 9:49 AM, Mary Metzger via NAGDU wrote:
>>> My Seeing Eye dog and I recently traveled to and from Atlanta on
>>> Delta. Although I carried a rabies certificate with me I was not
>>> asked for any documentation regarding my dog.
>>>
>>> Mary Beth Metzger
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Melissa
>>> Allman via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:06 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>>
>>> Hi Dan and Parker. There is indeed a lot of confusion surrounding
>>> this issue. At this point, you do not need to provide documentation
>>> to the airlines proving that your dog is a guide dog or that you need
>>> to travel with a guide dog. You can show up as you did before if you
>>> would like. You should be able to check in on line or at curb side or
>>> at the counter. People traveling with emotional support animals can
>>> be required to complete documentation in advance of traveling which
>>> is unfortunately where the confusion stems from.
>>>
>>> If you decide you want or need accommodations, you can let the
>>> airline know. For example,, when I have flown American Airlines
>>> recently a couple of times and put in my reservation that I am
>>> traveling with a guide dog and need accommodations, it automatically
>>> brings up this form requesting information about the accommodations
>>> needed. Then they call you and ask for information about the weight
>>> and breed of your dog. You can either take the call or not. I tend to
>>> take the call because I have no objection to providing the
>>> information since I know they are not using it to prevent me from
>>> flying with my dog. I also know they cannot legally refuse to allow
>>> me to sit in the seat I've purchased so if I'm available I take the
>>> call and provide the information. Not all airlines do this, I'm just
>>> sharing my recent experiences with American.
>>>
>>> Personally, I prefer to let the airlines know ahead of time about the
>>> accommodations I'm requesting i.e. assistance getting to the gate and
>>> preboarding because I'm a planner. This is a personal choice.
>>>
>>> Delta is requiring that all service animal handlers (using the ACAA
>>> definition of service animals) carry a rabies certificate but I have
>>> been told that unless there's an issue delta will not generally ask
>>> people working with guide dogs to produce them and that they are
>>> doing it because of the problems associated with emotional support
>>> animals. Whether Delta should be requiring everybody traveling with a
>>> service animal to carry proof of rabies vaccination is another
>>> discussion that is not the focus of my email.
>>>
>>> International flights are another story and I won't' go into that,
>>> but I do want to remind everybody that on flights that last 8 hours
>>> or more airlines can ask for verification that the animal will not
>>> need to relieve during the flight or that if it does, the situation
>>> can be managed in a sanitary way.
>>>
>>> I hope that helps some.
>>>
>>> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
>>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye,
>>> Inc.
>>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
>>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner
>>> via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2018 6:55 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Cc: Dan Weiner
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello, beautiful people:
>>>
>>>
>>> Dan W. from Florida with the Parker dog here.
>>>
>>> I want to clear up something. I hear a lot lately about various
>>> airlines, Delta and United for example, requiring documentation,
>>> whether vet records or forms filled out for those of us who fly with
>>> in quotes service dogs. I put in quotes because I'm a guide dog user
>>> and that is what concerns me at this point.. Is any of this stuff
>>> applicable to us.
>>> I had always thought that in domestic flights in the US that the FAA
>>> regulations or air carrier access act allowed access without any
>>> additional rigamarole, essential in my traveling days, I would show
>>> up, on occasion I told when making the reservation that I had a dog,
>>> most times I didn't, and I literally had no problems. So what is the
>>> scoop nowadays. It concerns me that when I look at several of the
>>> guide dog school web sites here in the States that it seems like they
>>> are just going along with it telling students that "remember to
>>> check with the airlines about t required forms" or something strange
>>> like this.
>>>
>>> I haven't been flying in several years and am looking to get back in
>>> to traveling by air which of course includes my pup.
>>>
>>> Who can give me the definitive answer...am I as a guide dog user
>>> required to fill out these bizarre service dog forms or do anything
>>> else in advance or required to bring random documentation on domestic
>>> US air flights...I don't mean in quotes "oh the airlines are saying
>>> they want it so why not bring it..."smile, I mean the actual
>>> requirements, I've even herd from some fellow guide dog users saying
>>> "Oh I filled out the forrs and I had no problems the airline such
>>> and such was very
>>> nice"-- So I don't want that either, anyway you probably get it.
>>>
>>> Who wants to give me the skinny, the bottom line, the scoop...
>>>
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>>
>>> Dan and the Parker Hound
>>>
>>> smile
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mallman%40seeingey
>>> e.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mmetzger1%40nycap.
>>> rr.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dcwein%40dcwein.cn
>>> c.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/david%40bakerinet.c
>> om
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mallman%40seeingeye.org
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sonfire11%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 18:32:51 -0400
> From: "Andy Borka" <sonfire11 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
> Message-ID: <004b01d42dd5$69a4d0c0$3cee7240$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> How do you give evidence that a dog doesn't have to empty during an 8+ hour flight?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Melissa Allman via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 9:06 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> Hi Dan and Parker. There is indeed a lot of confusion surrounding this issue. At this point, you do not need to provide documentation to the airlines proving that your dog is a guide dog or that you need to travel with a guide dog. You can show up as you did before if you would like. You should be able to check in on line or at curb side or at the counter. People traveling with emotional support animals can be required to complete documentation in advance of traveling which is unfortunately where the confusion stems from.
>
> If you decide you want or need accommodations, you can let the airline know. For example,, when I have flown American Airlines recently a couple of times and put in my reservation that I am traveling with a guide dog and need accommodations, it automatically brings up this form requesting information about the accommodations needed. Then they call you and ask for information about the weight and breed of your dog. You can either take the call or not. I tend to take the call because I have no objection to providing the information since I know they are not using it to prevent me from flying with my dog. I also know they cannot legally refuse to allow me to sit in the seat I've purchased so if I'm available I take the call and provide the information. Not all airlines do this, I'm just sharing my recent experiences with American.
>
> Personally, I prefer to let the airlines know ahead of time about the accommodations I'm requesting i.e. assistance getting to the gate and preboarding because I'm a planner. This is a personal choice.
>
> Delta is requiring that all service animal handlers (using the ACAA definition of service animals) carry a rabies certificate but I have been told that unless there's an issue delta will not generally ask people working with guide dogs to produce them and that they are doing it because of the problems associated with emotional support animals. Whether Delta should be requiring everybody traveling with a service animal to carry proof of rabies vaccination is another discussion that is not the focus of my email.
>
> International flights are another story and I won't' go into that, but I do want to remind everybody that on flights that last 8 hours or more airlines can ask for verification that the animal will not need to relieve during the flight or that if it does, the situation can be managed in a sanitary way.
>
> I hope that helps some.
>
> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2018 6:55 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Dan Weiner
> Subject: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
>
> Hello, beautiful people:
>
>
> Dan W. from Florida with the Parker dog here.
>
> I want to clear up something. I hear a lot lately about various airlines, Delta and United for example, requiring documentation, whether vet records or forms filled out for those of us who fly with in quotes service dogs. I put in quotes because I'm a guide dog user and that is what concerns me at this point.. Is any of this stuff applicable to us.
> I had always thought that in domestic flights in the US that the FAA regulations or air carrier access act allowed access without any additional rigamarole, essential in my traveling days, I would show up, on occasion I told when making the reservation that I had a dog, most times I didn't, and I literally had no problems. So what is the scoop nowadays. It concerns me that when I look at several of the guide dog school web sites here in the States that it seems like they are just going along with it telling students that "remember to check with the airlines about t required forms" or something strange like this.
>
> I haven't been flying in several years and am looking to get back in to traveling by air which of course includes my pup.
>
> Who can give me the definitive answer...am I as a guide dog user required to fill out these bizarre service dog forms or do anything else in advance or required to bring random documentation on domestic US air flights...I don't mean in quotes "oh the airlines are saying they want it so why not bring it..."smile, I mean the actual requirements, I've even herd from some fellow guide dog users saying "Oh I filled out the forrs and I had no problems the airline such and such was very
> nice"-- So I don't want that either, anyway you probably get it.
>
> Who wants to give me the skinny, the bottom line, the scoop...
>
>
> Yours,
>
> Dan and the Parker Hound
>
> smile
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mallman%40seeingeye.org
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sonfire11%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 15:34:42 -0700
> From: "Michael Hingson" <mike at michaelhingson.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
> Message-ID: <00a001d42dd5$abcd00d0$03670270$@michaelhingson.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Actually, often they are carrier employees, although not always. And a lack of training is no excuse. The airlines have gotten away with so much since there is no ability through the Air Carrier Access Act to compel them to do their jobs correctly.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Andy Borka via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 3:14 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Andy Borka <sonfire11 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> American told me once that they insist on wheelchairs for two reasons:
> 1. The employees at the airport are not airline carrier employees. Instead, they are airport employees, which the airline carriers contract through to provide service. This means that the airport employees, unless TSA employees, are not trained on disability specific problems such as dealing with blind people and guide dogs. Thus, they assume every disabled person needs a wheelchair.
> 2. Like hospitals, a disabled or injured person poses a liability risk on the hospital's insurance. The same with bus terminals, airports, and train stations.
>
> Looks like more education on disability related training needs to happen with terminals, and insist that you aren't a liability risk during your visit at the terminal. It throws most employees off kilter enough to get the point across.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Janell via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 1:03 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: nellie at culodge.com
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> I flew to O'Hare in Chicago. For my return trip I got to O'Hare and asked for assistance to my gate. They plopped me down somewhere by some desk and I waited for what seemed like forever. I finally heard someone (employee) go to the desk and grab a wheelchair. Not thinking it was for me I didn?t say anything. The employee got over to me and she was a lady from India. She sort of tapped my shoulder and said something I couldn?t understand. I stood up to start walking and she sort of pushed the wheelchair up from behind me so I had no choice to sit down. I could not understand one word she was trying to tell me. I stood up and said I can walk just fine and I am not using a wheelchair. Then we started walking to my gate and she kept muttering "go there, or turn there.) She could tell of my frustration so she grabbed my elbow. I stopped and agreed to grab hers because I knew I was cutting it very close to my departure, and I have tons of anxiety when flying so I was done arguing. I finally got to the security check and she passed me off to a very nice man who got me the rest of the way.
>
> Why do employees assume blind people need a wheelchair?
>
> On both of my flights that week (united) the flight crew were fantastic and went above and beyond to insure Sully and I were both comfortable. In fact, a young man crew member even came to me before they do their speech on emergency landings etc. and did a one on one session with just me. I have flown for about 20 years since I have been blind and I have never once had an employee take the time to do that.
>
> Happy Monday, Janell and Sully
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Melissa Allman via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 10:11 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> HI Dan. I typically ask for assistance getting to the gate an preboarding. I disclose in my reservation that I am blind traveling with a guide dog. Sometimes I get to the counter and find cluelessness about the accommodations I've put in there ahead of time but once they check the reservation it comes together. I often have to stand and wait for an escort provided by the airline to provide assistance getting through security and to the gate and then the decision becomes one about whether to attempt to go it alone or wait for one. Once I get to the gate I let the gate agent know I will need to preboard so they won't forget about me. I always place myself in a seat as close to the counter as possible so I am visible and I often just get up and start walking that direction when it is time to preboard because ultimately you have to rely on yourself. Preboarding is a nice way to get you and your dog on the flight and situated without having to push through throngs of people trying to get on and get access to the overhead compartments. Often I find the conversation goes something like this:
>
> Melissa: Good morning I am going to need some assistance getting to the gate and I'll need to preboard. That is in my reservation."
> Agent: Ok no problem. So we need a wheelchair over here.
> Melissa: No I do not need a wheelchair. I'm blind but I can walk just fine.
> Agent: Okay.
> Escort arriving: Ok mam good morning here's the wheelchair.
> Melissa: I can walk just fine I don?t' need a wheelchair.
> Rinke and repeat.
>
> Now that I have a dog the wheelchair thing seems to come up less but it still does but I never get in it. Sigh.
>
> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:57 AM
> To: Mary Metzger via NAGDU
> Cc: Dan Weiner
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> thank you to all, I'm just anticipating that I'll have this type of
> conversation:
>
> "is that a service dog (or ESA, or whatever term_.
>
> Dan "I'm blind and it's a guide dog"
>
> Air line person "but it doesn't show here that you filled out the form required for service dogs".
>
>
> Dan: "There's probably a misunderstanding, I'm blind and he's a guide dog and those requirements aren't needed for a guide dog".
>
> And so on and so on. I just envisage a lot of confusion, and I do understand Melissa's point about talking to the airline in advance, I'm curious what accommodations you ask for or can potentially ask for, it might be something that would be good for me or my dog.
>
>
> You take care
>
>
> On 8/6/2018 9:49 AM, Mary Metzger via NAGDU wrote:
>> My Seeing Eye dog and I recently traveled to and from Atlanta on Delta. Although I carried a rabies certificate with me I was not asked for any documentation regarding my dog.
>>
>> Mary Beth Metzger
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Melissa
>> Allman via NAGDU
>> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:06 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>
>> Hi Dan and Parker. There is indeed a lot of confusion surrounding this issue. At this point, you do not need to provide documentation to the airlines proving that your dog is a guide dog or that you need to travel with a guide dog. You can show up as you did before if you would like. You should be able to check in on line or at curb side or at the counter. People traveling with emotional support animals can be required to complete documentation in advance of traveling which is unfortunately where the confusion stems from.
>>
>> If you decide you want or need accommodations, you can let the airline know. For example,, when I have flown American Airlines recently a couple of times and put in my reservation that I am traveling with a guide dog and need accommodations, it automatically brings up this form requesting information about the accommodations needed. Then they call you and ask for information about the weight and breed of your dog. You can either take the call or not. I tend to take the call because I have no objection to providing the information since I know they are not using it to prevent me from flying with my dog. I also know they cannot legally refuse to allow me to sit in the seat I've purchased so if I'm available I take the call and provide the information. Not all airlines do this, I'm just sharing my recent experiences with American.
>>
>> Personally, I prefer to let the airlines know ahead of time about the accommodations I'm requesting i.e. assistance getting to the gate and preboarding because I'm a planner. This is a personal choice.
>>
>> Delta is requiring that all service animal handlers (using the ACAA definition of service animals) carry a rabies certificate but I have been told that unless there's an issue delta will not generally ask people working with guide dogs to produce them and that they are doing it because of the problems associated with emotional support animals. Whether Delta should be requiring everybody traveling with a service animal to carry proof of rabies vaccination is another discussion that is not the focus of my email.
>>
>> International flights are another story and I won't' go into that, but I do want to remind everybody that on flights that last 8 hours or more airlines can ask for verification that the animal will not need to relieve during the flight or that if it does, the situation can be managed in a sanitary way.
>>
>> I hope that helps some.
>>
>> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2018 6:55 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Dan Weiner
>> Subject: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>
>>
>> Hello, beautiful people:
>>
>>
>> Dan W. from Florida with the Parker dog here.
>>
>> I want to clear up something. I hear a lot lately about various airlines, Delta and United for example, requiring documentation, whether vet records or forms filled out for those of us who fly with in quotes service dogs. I put in quotes because I'm a guide dog user and that is what concerns me at this point.. Is any of this stuff applicable to us.
>> I had always thought that in domestic flights in the US that the FAA regulations or air carrier access act allowed access without any additional rigamarole, essential in my traveling days, I would show up, on occasion I told when making the reservation that I had a dog, most times I didn't, and I literally had no problems. So what is the scoop nowadays. It concerns me that when I look at several of the guide dog school web sites here in the States that it seems like they are just going along with it telling students that "remember to check with the airlines about t required forms" or something strange like this.
>>
>> I haven't been flying in several years and am looking to get back in to traveling by air which of course includes my pup.
>>
>> Who can give me the definitive answer...am I as a guide dog user
>> required to fill out these bizarre service dog forms or do anything
>> else in advance or required to bring random documentation on domestic
>> US air flights...I don't mean in quotes "oh the airlines are saying
>> they want it so why not bring it..."smile, I mean the actual
>> requirements, I've even herd from some fellow guide dog users saying
>> "Oh I filled out the forrs and I had no problems the airline such and
>> such was very
>> nice"-- So I don't want that either, anyway you probably get it.
>>
>> Who wants to give me the skinny, the bottom line, the scoop...
>>
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Dan and the Parker Hound
>>
>> smile
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mallman%40seeingeye
>> .org _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mmetzger1%40nycap.r
>> r.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dcwein%40dcwein.cnc
>> .net
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mallman%40seeingeye.org
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/nellie%40culodge.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sonfire11%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mike%40michaelhingson.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 19:04:38 -0400
> From: Marianne Denning <marianne at denningweb.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
> Message-ID: <9C184F4F-A7B2-4C3D-B139-36C96E12AAED at denningweb.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> I was told something very similar one time and I contacted the airport where I receive that information. That is absolutely faults and incorrect information. I think that is an airport employee assuming things they don?t know.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 6, 2018, at 6:13 PM, Andy Borka via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> American told me once that they insist on wheelchairs for two reasons:
>> 1. The employees at the airport are not airline carrier employees. Instead, they are airport employees, which the airline carriers contract through to provide service. This means that the airport employees, unless TSA employees, are not trained on disability specific problems such as dealing with blind people and guide dogs. Thus, they assume every disabled person needs a wheelchair.
>> 2. Like hospitals, a disabled or injured person poses a liability risk on the hospital's insurance. The same with bus terminals, airports, and train stations.
>>
>> Looks like more education on disability related training needs to happen with terminals, and insist that you aren't a liability risk during your visit at the terminal. It throws most employees off kilter enough to get the point across.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Janell via NAGDU
>> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 1:03 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: nellie at culodge.com
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>
>> I flew to O'Hare in Chicago. For my return trip I got to O'Hare and asked for assistance to my gate. They plopped me down somewhere by some desk and I waited for what seemed like forever. I finally heard someone (employee) go to the desk and grab a wheelchair. Not thinking it was for me I didn?t say anything. The employee got over to me and she was a lady from India. She sort of tapped my shoulder and said something I couldn?t understand. I stood up to start walking and she sort of pushed the wheelchair up from behind me so I had no choice to sit down. I could not understand one word she was trying to tell me. I stood up and said I can walk just fine and I am not using a wheelchair. Then we started walking to my gate and she kept muttering "go there, or turn there.) She could tell of my frustration so she grabbed my elbow. I stopped and agreed to grab hers because I knew I was cutting it very close to my departure, and I have tons of anxiety when flying so I was done arguing. I finally got to the security check and she passed me off to a very nice man who got me the rest of the way.
>>
>> Why do employees assume blind people need a wheelchair?
>>
>> On both of my flights that week (united) the flight crew were fantastic and went above and beyond to insure Sully and I were both comfortable. In fact, a young man crew member even came to me before they do their speech on emergency landings etc. and did a one on one session with just me. I have flown for about 20 years since I have been blind and I have never once had an employee take the time to do that.
>>
>> Happy Monday, Janell and Sully
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Melissa Allman via NAGDU
>> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 10:11 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>
>> HI Dan. I typically ask for assistance getting to the gate an preboarding. I disclose in my reservation that I am blind traveling with a guide dog. Sometimes I get to the counter and find cluelessness about the accommodations I've put in there ahead of time but once they check the reservation it comes together. I often have to stand and wait for an escort provided by the airline to provide assistance getting through security and to the gate and then the decision becomes one about whether to attempt to go it alone or wait for one. Once I get to the gate I let the gate agent know I will need to preboard so they won't forget about me. I always place myself in a seat as close to the counter as possible so I am visible and I often just get up and start walking that direction when it is time to preboard because ultimately you have to rely on yourself. Preboarding is a nice way to get you and your dog on the flight and situated without having to push through throngs of people trying to get on and get access to the overhead compartments. Often I find the conversation goes something like this:
>>
>> Melissa: Good morning I am going to need some assistance getting to the gate and I'll need to preboard. That is in my reservation."
>> Agent: Ok no problem. So we need a wheelchair over here.
>> Melissa: No I do not need a wheelchair. I'm blind but I can walk just fine.
>> Agent: Okay.
>> Escort arriving: Ok mam good morning here's the wheelchair.
>> Melissa: I can walk just fine I don?t' need a wheelchair.
>> Rinke and repeat.
>>
>> Now that I have a dog the wheelchair thing seems to come up less but it still does but I never get in it. Sigh.
>>
>> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner via NAGDU
>> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:57 AM
>> To: Mary Metzger via NAGDU
>> Cc: Dan Weiner
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>
>> thank you to all, I'm just anticipating that I'll have this type of
>> conversation:
>>
>> "is that a service dog (or ESA, or whatever term_.
>>
>> Dan "I'm blind and it's a guide dog"
>>
>> Air line person "but it doesn't show here that you filled out the form required for service dogs".
>>
>>
>> Dan: "There's probably a misunderstanding, I'm blind and he's a guide dog and those requirements aren't needed for a guide dog".
>>
>> And so on and so on. I just envisage a lot of confusion, and I do understand Melissa's point about talking to the airline in advance, I'm curious what accommodations you ask for or can potentially ask for, it might be something that would be good for me or my dog.
>>
>>
>> You take care
>>
>>
>>> On 8/6/2018 9:49 AM, Mary Metzger via NAGDU wrote:
>>> My Seeing Eye dog and I recently traveled to and from Atlanta on Delta. Although I carried a rabies certificate with me I was not asked for any documentation regarding my dog.
>>>
>>> Mary Beth Metzger
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Melissa
>>> Allman via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:06 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>>
>>> Hi Dan and Parker. There is indeed a lot of confusion surrounding this issue. At this point, you do not need to provide documentation to the airlines proving that your dog is a guide dog or that you need to travel with a guide dog. You can show up as you did before if you would like. You should be able to check in on line or at curb side or at the counter. People traveling with emotional support animals can be required to complete documentation in advance of traveling which is unfortunately where the confusion stems from.
>>>
>>> If you decide you want or need accommodations, you can let the airline know. For example,, when I have flown American Airlines recently a couple of times and put in my reservation that I am traveling with a guide dog and need accommodations, it automatically brings up this form requesting information about the accommodations needed. Then they call you and ask for information about the weight and breed of your dog. You can either take the call or not. I tend to take the call because I have no objection to providing the information since I know they are not using it to prevent me from flying with my dog. I also know they cannot legally refuse to allow me to sit in the seat I've purchased so if I'm available I take the call and provide the information. Not all airlines do this, I'm just sharing my recent experiences with American.
>>>
>>> Personally, I prefer to let the airlines know ahead of time about the accommodations I'm requesting i.e. assistance getting to the gate and preboarding because I'm a planner. This is a personal choice.
>>>
>>> Delta is requiring that all service animal handlers (using the ACAA definition of service animals) carry a rabies certificate but I have been told that unless there's an issue delta will not generally ask people working with guide dogs to produce them and that they are doing it because of the problems associated with emotional support animals. Whether Delta should be requiring everybody traveling with a service animal to carry proof of rabies vaccination is another discussion that is not the focus of my email.
>>>
>>> International flights are another story and I won't' go into that, but I do want to remind everybody that on flights that last 8 hours or more airlines can ask for verification that the animal will not need to relieve during the flight or that if it does, the situation can be managed in a sanitary way.
>>>
>>> I hope that helps some.
>>>
>>> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
>>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
>>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
>>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner
>>> via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2018 6:55 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Cc: Dan Weiner
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello, beautiful people:
>>>
>>>
>>> Dan W. from Florida with the Parker dog here.
>>>
>>> I want to clear up something. I hear a lot lately about various airlines, Delta and United for example, requiring documentation, whether vet records or forms filled out for those of us who fly with in quotes service dogs. I put in quotes because I'm a guide dog user and that is what concerns me at this point.. Is any of this stuff applicable to us.
>>> I had always thought that in domestic flights in the US that the FAA regulations or air carrier access act allowed access without any additional rigamarole, essential in my traveling days, I would show up, on occasion I told when making the reservation that I had a dog, most times I didn't, and I literally had no problems. So what is the scoop nowadays. It concerns me that when I look at several of the guide dog school web sites here in the States that it seems like they are just going along with it telling students that "remember to check with the airlines about t required forms" or something strange like this.
>>>
>>> I haven't been flying in several years and am looking to get back in to traveling by air which of course includes my pup.
>>>
>>> Who can give me the definitive answer...am I as a guide dog user
>>> required to fill out these bizarre service dog forms or do anything
>>> else in advance or required to bring random documentation on domestic
>>> US air flights...I don't mean in quotes "oh the airlines are saying
>>> they want it so why not bring it..."smile, I mean the actual
>>> requirements, I've even herd from some fellow guide dog users saying
>>> "Oh I filled out the forrs and I had no problems the airline such and
>>> such was very
>>> nice"-- So I don't want that either, anyway you probably get it.
>>>
>>> Who wants to give me the skinny, the bottom line, the scoop...
>>>
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>>
>>> Dan and the Parker Hound
>>>
>>> smile
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mallman%40seeingeye
>>> .org _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mmetzger1%40nycap.r
>>> r.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dcwein%40dcwein.cnc
>>> .net
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mallman%40seeingeye.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/nellie%40culodge.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sonfire11%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/marianne%40denningweb.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 19:01:30 -0500
> From: "Jordan Gallacher" <jordangandbelto at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
> Message-ID: <007a01d42de1$cc632c50$652984f0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> That is false information. More disability training is needed if you are running into that. Like I have said in other posts, Southwest and American have been the only two airlines I have used recently and have had no problems.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Andy Borka via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 5:14 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Andy Borka <sonfire11 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> American told me once that they insist on wheelchairs for two reasons:
> 1. The employees at the airport are not airline carrier employees. Instead, they are airport employees, which the airline carriers contract through to provide service. This means that the airport employees, unless TSA employees, are not trained on disability specific problems such as dealing with blind people and guide dogs. Thus, they assume every disabled person needs a wheelchair.
> 2. Like hospitals, a disabled or injured person poses a liability risk on the hospital's insurance. The same with bus terminals, airports, and train stations.
>
> Looks like more education on disability related training needs to happen with terminals, and insist that you aren't a liability risk during your visit at the terminal. It throws most employees off kilter enough to get the point across.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Janell via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 1:03 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: nellie at culodge.com
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> I flew to O'Hare in Chicago. For my return trip I got to O'Hare and asked for assistance to my gate. They plopped me down somewhere by some desk and I waited for what seemed like forever. I finally heard someone (employee) go to the desk and grab a wheelchair. Not thinking it was for me I didn?t say anything. The employee got over to me and she was a lady from India. She sort of tapped my shoulder and said something I couldn?t understand. I stood up to start walking and she sort of pushed the wheelchair up from behind me so I had no choice to sit down. I could not understand one word she was trying to tell me. I stood up and said I can walk just fine and I am not using a wheelchair. Then we started walking to my gate and she kept muttering "go there, or turn there.) She could tell of my frustration so she grabbed my elbow. I stopped and agreed to grab hers because I knew I was cutting it very close to my departure, and I have tons of anxiety when flying so I was done arguing. I finally got to the security check and she passed me off to a very nice man who got me the rest of the way.
>
> Why do employees assume blind people need a wheelchair?
>
> On both of my flights that week (united) the flight crew were fantastic and went above and beyond to insure Sully and I were both comfortable. In fact, a young man crew member even came to me before they do their speech on emergency landings etc. and did a one on one session with just me. I have flown for about 20 years since I have been blind and I have never once had an employee take the time to do that.
>
> Happy Monday, Janell and Sully
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Melissa Allman via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 10:11 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> HI Dan. I typically ask for assistance getting to the gate an preboarding. I disclose in my reservation that I am blind traveling with a guide dog. Sometimes I get to the counter and find cluelessness about the accommodations I've put in there ahead of time but once they check the reservation it comes together. I often have to stand and wait for an escort provided by the airline to provide assistance getting through security and to the gate and then the decision becomes one about whether to attempt to go it alone or wait for one. Once I get to the gate I let the gate agent know I will need to preboard so they won't forget about me. I always place myself in a seat as close to the counter as possible so I am visible and I often just get up and start walking that direction when it is time to preboard because ultimately you have to rely on yourself. Preboarding is a nice way to get you and your dog on the flight and situated without having to push through throngs of people trying to get on and get access to the overhead compartments. Often I find the conversation goes something like this:
>
> Melissa: Good morning I am going to need some assistance getting to the gate and I'll need to preboard. That is in my reservation."
> Agent: Ok no problem. So we need a wheelchair over here.
> Melissa: No I do not need a wheelchair. I'm blind but I can walk just fine.
> Agent: Okay.
> Escort arriving: Ok mam good morning here's the wheelchair.
> Melissa: I can walk just fine I don?t' need a wheelchair.
> Rinke and repeat.
>
> Now that I have a dog the wheelchair thing seems to come up less but it still does but I never get in it. Sigh.
>
> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:57 AM
> To: Mary Metzger via NAGDU
> Cc: Dan Weiner
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> thank you to all, I'm just anticipating that I'll have this type of
> conversation:
>
> "is that a service dog (or ESA, or whatever term_.
>
> Dan "I'm blind and it's a guide dog"
>
> Air line person "but it doesn't show here that you filled out the form required for service dogs".
>
>
> Dan: "There's probably a misunderstanding, I'm blind and he's a guide dog and those requirements aren't needed for a guide dog".
>
> And so on and so on. I just envisage a lot of confusion, and I do understand Melissa's point about talking to the airline in advance, I'm curious what accommodations you ask for or can potentially ask for, it might be something that would be good for me or my dog.
>
>
> You take care
>
>
> On 8/6/2018 9:49 AM, Mary Metzger via NAGDU wrote:
>> My Seeing Eye dog and I recently traveled to and from Atlanta on Delta. Although I carried a rabies certificate with me I was not asked for any documentation regarding my dog.
>>
>> Mary Beth Metzger
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Melissa
>> Allman via NAGDU
>> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:06 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>
>> Hi Dan and Parker. There is indeed a lot of confusion surrounding this issue. At this point, you do not need to provide documentation to the airlines proving that your dog is a guide dog or that you need to travel with a guide dog. You can show up as you did before if you would like. You should be able to check in on line or at curb side or at the counter. People traveling with emotional support animals can be required to complete documentation in advance of traveling which is unfortunately where the confusion stems from.
>>
>> If you decide you want or need accommodations, you can let the airline know. For example,, when I have flown American Airlines recently a couple of times and put in my reservation that I am traveling with a guide dog and need accommodations, it automatically brings up this form requesting information about the accommodations needed. Then they call you and ask for information about the weight and breed of your dog. You can either take the call or not. I tend to take the call because I have no objection to providing the information since I know they are not using it to prevent me from flying with my dog. I also know they cannot legally refuse to allow me to sit in the seat I've purchased so if I'm available I take the call and provide the information. Not all airlines do this, I'm just sharing my recent experiences with American.
>>
>> Personally, I prefer to let the airlines know ahead of time about the accommodations I'm requesting i.e. assistance getting to the gate and preboarding because I'm a planner. This is a personal choice.
>>
>> Delta is requiring that all service animal handlers (using the ACAA definition of service animals) carry a rabies certificate but I have been told that unless there's an issue delta will not generally ask people working with guide dogs to produce them and that they are doing it because of the problems associated with emotional support animals. Whether Delta should be requiring everybody traveling with a service animal to carry proof of rabies vaccination is another discussion that is not the focus of my email.
>>
>> International flights are another story and I won't' go into that, but I do want to remind everybody that on flights that last 8 hours or more airlines can ask for verification that the animal will not need to relieve during the flight or that if it does, the situation can be managed in a sanitary way.
>>
>> I hope that helps some.
>>
>> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2018 6:55 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Dan Weiner
>> Subject: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>
>>
>> Hello, beautiful people:
>>
>>
>> Dan W. from Florida with the Parker dog here.
>>
>> I want to clear up something. I hear a lot lately about various airlines, Delta and United for example, requiring documentation, whether vet records or forms filled out for those of us who fly with in quotes service dogs. I put in quotes because I'm a guide dog user and that is what concerns me at this point.. Is any of this stuff applicable to us.
>> I had always thought that in domestic flights in the US that the FAA regulations or air carrier access act allowed access without any additional rigamarole, essential in my traveling days, I would show up, on occasion I told when making the reservation that I had a dog, most times I didn't, and I literally had no problems. So what is the scoop nowadays. It concerns me that when I look at several of the guide dog school web sites here in the States that it seems like they are just going along with it telling students that "remember to check with the airlines about t required forms" or something strange like this.
>>
>> I haven't been flying in several years and am looking to get back in to traveling by air which of course includes my pup.
>>
>> Who can give me the definitive answer...am I as a guide dog user
>> required to fill out these bizarre service dog forms or do anything
>> else in advance or required to bring random documentation on domestic
>> US air flights...I don't mean in quotes "oh the airlines are saying
>> they want it so why not bring it..."smile, I mean the actual
>> requirements, I've even herd from some fellow guide dog users saying
>> "Oh I filled out the forrs and I had no problems the airline such and
>> such was very
>> nice"-- So I don't want that either, anyway you probably get it.
>>
>> Who wants to give me the skinny, the bottom line, the scoop...
>>
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Dan and the Parker Hound
>>
>> smile
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mallman%40seeingeye
>> .org _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mmetzger1%40nycap.r
>> r.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dcwein%40dcwein.cnc
>> .net
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mallman%40seeingeye.org
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/nellie%40culodge.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sonfire11%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jordangandbelto%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 19:13:33 -0500
> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
> Message-ID: <01af01d42de3$7af994b0$70ecbe10$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> People who work for airports and airlines have developed very vivid imaginations.
> Cindy Lou
> cindyray at gmail.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Marianne Denning via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 6:05 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Marianne Denning <marianne at denningweb.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> I was told something very similar one time and I contacted the airport where I receive that information. That is absolutely faults and incorrect information. I think that is an airport employee assuming things they don?t know.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 6, 2018, at 6:13 PM, Andy Borka via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> American told me once that they insist on wheelchairs for two reasons:
>> 1. The employees at the airport are not airline carrier employees. Instead, they are airport employees, which the airline carriers contract through to provide service. This means that the airport employees, unless TSA employees, are not trained on disability specific problems such as dealing with blind people and guide dogs. Thus, they assume every disabled person needs a wheelchair.
>> 2. Like hospitals, a disabled or injured person poses a liability risk on the hospital's insurance. The same with bus terminals, airports, and train stations.
>>
>> Looks like more education on disability related training needs to happen with terminals, and insist that you aren't a liability risk during your visit at the terminal. It throws most employees off kilter enough to get the point across.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Janell via NAGDU
>> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 1:03 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: nellie at culodge.com
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>
>> I flew to O'Hare in Chicago. For my return trip I got to O'Hare and asked for assistance to my gate. They plopped me down somewhere by some desk and I waited for what seemed like forever. I finally heard someone (employee) go to the desk and grab a wheelchair. Not thinking it was for me I didn?t say anything. The employee got over to me and she was a lady from India. She sort of tapped my shoulder and said something I couldn?t understand. I stood up to start walking and she sort of pushed the wheelchair up from behind me so I had no choice to sit down. I could not understand one word she was trying to tell me. I stood up and said I can walk just fine and I am not using a wheelchair. Then we started walking to my gate and she kept muttering "go there, or turn there.) She could tell of my frustration so she grabbed my elbow. I stopped and agreed to grab hers because I knew I was cutting it very close to my departure, and I have tons of anxiety when flying so I was done arguing. I finally got to the security check and she passed me off to a very nice man who got me the rest of the way.
>>
>> Why do employees assume blind people need a wheelchair?
>>
>> On both of my flights that week (united) the flight crew were fantastic and went above and beyond to insure Sully and I were both comfortable. In fact, a young man crew member even came to me before they do their speech on emergency landings etc. and did a one on one session with just me. I have flown for about 20 years since I have been blind and I have never once had an employee take the time to do that.
>>
>> Happy Monday, Janell and Sully
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Melissa Allman via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 10:11 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>
>> HI Dan. I typically ask for assistance getting to the gate an preboarding. I disclose in my reservation that I am blind traveling with a guide dog. Sometimes I get to the counter and find cluelessness about the accommodations I've put in there ahead of time but once they check the reservation it comes together. I often have to stand and wait for an escort provided by the airline to provide assistance getting through security and to the gate and then the decision becomes one about whether to attempt to go it alone or wait for one. Once I get to the gate I let the gate agent know I will need to preboard so they won't forget about me. I always place myself in a seat as close to the counter as possible so I am visible and I often just get up and start walking that direction when it is time to preboard because ultimately you have to rely on yourself. Preboarding is a nice way to get you and your dog on the flight and situated without having to push through throngs of people trying to get on and get access to the overhead compartments. Often I find the conversation goes something like this:
>>
>> Melissa: Good morning I am going to need some assistance getting to the gate and I'll need to preboard. That is in my reservation."
>> Agent: Ok no problem. So we need a wheelchair over here.
>> Melissa: No I do not need a wheelchair. I'm blind but I can walk just fine.
>> Agent: Okay.
>> Escort arriving: Ok mam good morning here's the wheelchair.
>> Melissa: I can walk just fine I don?t' need a wheelchair.
>> Rinke and repeat.
>>
>> Now that I have a dog the wheelchair thing seems to come up less but it still does but I never get in it. Sigh.
>>
>> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:57 AM
>> To: Mary Metzger via NAGDU
>> Cc: Dan Weiner
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>
>> thank you to all, I'm just anticipating that I'll have this type of
>> conversation:
>>
>> "is that a service dog (or ESA, or whatever term_.
>>
>> Dan "I'm blind and it's a guide dog"
>>
>> Air line person "but it doesn't show here that you filled out the form required for service dogs".
>>
>>
>> Dan: "There's probably a misunderstanding, I'm blind and he's a guide dog and those requirements aren't needed for a guide dog".
>>
>> And so on and so on. I just envisage a lot of confusion, and I do understand Melissa's point about talking to the airline in advance, I'm curious what accommodations you ask for or can potentially ask for, it might be something that would be good for me or my dog.
>>
>>
>> You take care
>>
>>
>>> On 8/6/2018 9:49 AM, Mary Metzger via NAGDU wrote:
>>> My Seeing Eye dog and I recently traveled to and from Atlanta on Delta. Although I carried a rabies certificate with me I was not asked for any documentation regarding my dog.
>>>
>>> Mary Beth Metzger
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Melissa
>>> Allman via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:06 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>>
>>> Hi Dan and Parker. There is indeed a lot of confusion surrounding this issue. At this point, you do not need to provide documentation to the airlines proving that your dog is a guide dog or that you need to travel with a guide dog. You can show up as you did before if you would like. You should be able to check in on line or at curb side or at the counter. People traveling with emotional support animals can be required to complete documentation in advance of traveling which is unfortunately where the confusion stems from.
>>>
>>> If you decide you want or need accommodations, you can let the airline know. For example,, when I have flown American Airlines recently a couple of times and put in my reservation that I am traveling with a guide dog and need accommodations, it automatically brings up this form requesting information about the accommodations needed. Then they call you and ask for information about the weight and breed of your dog. You can either take the call or not. I tend to take the call because I have no objection to providing the information since I know they are not using it to prevent me from flying with my dog. I also know they cannot legally refuse to allow me to sit in the seat I've purchased so if I'm available I take the call and provide the information. Not all airlines do this, I'm just sharing my recent experiences with American.
>>>
>>> Personally, I prefer to let the airlines know ahead of time about the accommodations I'm requesting i.e. assistance getting to the gate and preboarding because I'm a planner. This is a personal choice.
>>>
>>> Delta is requiring that all service animal handlers (using the ACAA definition of service animals) carry a rabies certificate but I have been told that unless there's an issue delta will not generally ask people working with guide dogs to produce them and that they are doing it because of the problems associated with emotional support animals. Whether Delta should be requiring everybody traveling with a service animal to carry proof of rabies vaccination is another discussion that is not the focus of my email.
>>>
>>> International flights are another story and I won't' go into that, but I do want to remind everybody that on flights that last 8 hours or more airlines can ask for verification that the animal will not need to relieve during the flight or that if it does, the situation can be managed in a sanitary way.
>>>
>>> I hope that helps some.
>>>
>>> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
>>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
>>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
>>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner
>>> via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2018 6:55 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Cc: Dan Weiner
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello, beautiful people:
>>>
>>>
>>> Dan W. from Florida with the Parker dog here.
>>>
>>> I want to clear up something. I hear a lot lately about various airlines, Delta and United for example, requiring documentation, whether vet records or forms filled out for those of us who fly with in quotes service dogs. I put in quotes because I'm a guide dog user and that is what concerns me at this point.. Is any of this stuff applicable to us.
>>> I had always thought that in domestic flights in the US that the FAA regulations or air carrier access act allowed access without any additional rigamarole, essential in my traveling days, I would show up, on occasion I told when making the reservation that I had a dog, most times I didn't, and I literally had no problems. So what is the scoop nowadays. It concerns me that when I look at several of the guide dog school web sites here in the States that it seems like they are just going along with it telling students that "remember to check with the airlines about t required forms" or something strange like this.
>>>
>>> I haven't been flying in several years and am looking to get back in to traveling by air which of course includes my pup.
>>>
>>> Who can give me the definitive answer...am I as a guide dog user
>>> required to fill out these bizarre service dog forms or do anything
>>> else in advance or required to bring random documentation on domestic
>>> US air flights...I don't mean in quotes "oh the airlines are saying
>>> they want it so why not bring it..."smile, I mean the actual
>>> requirements, I've even herd from some fellow guide dog users saying
>>> "Oh I filled out the forrs and I had no problems the airline such
>>> and such was very
>>> nice"-- So I don't want that either, anyway you probably get it.
>>>
>>> Who wants to give me the skinny, the bottom line, the scoop...
>>>
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>>
>>> Dan and the Parker Hound
>>>
>>> smile
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mallman%40seeingey
>>> e .org _______________________________________________
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>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mmetzger1%40nycap.
>>> r
>>> r.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dcwein%40dcwein.cn
>>> c
>>> .net
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
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>> m
>>
>>
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>> om
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/marianne%40denningw
>> eb.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 20:28:45 -0400
> From: "Andy Borka" <sonfire11 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
> Message-ID: <000701d42de5$9a4f8390$ceee8ab0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I have no clue, but this is what the airline told me. All they do is rent space and purchase services from the airport. The people that help with disability related services in the airport are not hired by the airline. Instead, they are hired by the airport who rents out space to the carriers. So, the friendly person who offers a wheelchair has nothing to do with Delta, United, or AA. Same goes for Amtrak. The gate agents and employees of the terminal are not Amtrak employees. They are hired by the terminal. This is why it is difficult to get a redcap to help you get food or perform other tasks while in the terminal -- they are not obligated to follow Amtrak's disabled passenger guidelines.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Jordan Gallacher via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 8:02 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Jordan Gallacher <jordangandbelto at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> That is false information. More disability training is needed if you are running into that. Like I have said in other posts, Southwest and American have been the only two airlines I have used recently and have had no problems.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Andy Borka via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 5:14 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Andy Borka <sonfire11 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> American told me once that they insist on wheelchairs for two reasons:
> 1. The employees at the airport are not airline carrier employees. Instead, they are airport employees, which the airline carriers contract through to provide service. This means that the airport employees, unless TSA employees, are not trained on disability specific problems such as dealing with blind people and guide dogs. Thus, they assume every disabled person needs a wheelchair.
> 2. Like hospitals, a disabled or injured person poses a liability risk on the hospital's insurance. The same with bus terminals, airports, and train stations.
>
> Looks like more education on disability related training needs to happen with terminals, and insist that you aren't a liability risk during your visit at the terminal. It throws most employees off kilter enough to get the point across.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Janell via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 1:03 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: nellie at culodge.com
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> I flew to O'Hare in Chicago. For my return trip I got to O'Hare and asked for assistance to my gate. They plopped me down somewhere by some desk and I waited for what seemed like forever. I finally heard someone (employee) go to the desk and grab a wheelchair. Not thinking it was for me I didn?t say anything. The employee got over to me and she was a lady from India. She sort of tapped my shoulder and said something I couldn?t understand. I stood up to start walking and she sort of pushed the wheelchair up from behind me so I had no choice to sit down. I could not understand one word she was trying to tell me. I stood up and said I can walk just fine and I am not using a wheelchair. Then we started walking to my gate and she kept muttering "go there, or turn there.) She could tell of my frustration so she grabbed my elbow. I stopped and agreed to grab hers because I knew I was cutting it very close to my departure, and I have tons of anxiety when flying so I was done arguing. I finally got to the security check and she passed me off to a very nice man who got me the rest of the way.
>
> Why do employees assume blind people need a wheelchair?
>
> On both of my flights that week (united) the flight crew were fantastic and went above and beyond to insure Sully and I were both comfortable. In fact, a young man crew member even came to me before they do their speech on emergency landings etc. and did a one on one session with just me. I have flown for about 20 years since I have been blind and I have never once had an employee take the time to do that.
>
> Happy Monday, Janell and Sully
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Melissa Allman via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 10:11 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> HI Dan. I typically ask for assistance getting to the gate an preboarding. I disclose in my reservation that I am blind traveling with a guide dog. Sometimes I get to the counter and find cluelessness about the accommodations I've put in there ahead of time but once they check the reservation it comes together. I often have to stand and wait for an escort provided by the airline to provide assistance getting through security and to the gate and then the decision becomes one about whether to attempt to go it alone or wait for one. Once I get to the gate I let the gate agent know I will need to preboard so they won't forget about me. I always place myself in a seat as close to the counter as possible so I am visible and I often just get up and start walking that direction when it is time to preboard because ultimately you have to rely on yourself. Preboarding is a nice way to get you and your dog on the flight and situated without having to push through throngs of people trying to get on and get access to the overhead compartments. Often I find the conversation goes something like this:
>
> Melissa: Good morning I am going to need some assistance getting to the gate and I'll need to preboard. That is in my reservation."
> Agent: Ok no problem. So we need a wheelchair over here.
> Melissa: No I do not need a wheelchair. I'm blind but I can walk just fine.
> Agent: Okay.
> Escort arriving: Ok mam good morning here's the wheelchair.
> Melissa: I can walk just fine I don?t' need a wheelchair.
> Rinke and repeat.
>
> Now that I have a dog the wheelchair thing seems to come up less but it still does but I never get in it. Sigh.
>
> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:57 AM
> To: Mary Metzger via NAGDU
> Cc: Dan Weiner
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> thank you to all, I'm just anticipating that I'll have this type of
> conversation:
>
> "is that a service dog (or ESA, or whatever term_.
>
> Dan "I'm blind and it's a guide dog"
>
> Air line person "but it doesn't show here that you filled out the form required for service dogs".
>
>
> Dan: "There's probably a misunderstanding, I'm blind and he's a guide dog and those requirements aren't needed for a guide dog".
>
> And so on and so on. I just envisage a lot of confusion, and I do understand Melissa's point about talking to the airline in advance, I'm curious what accommodations you ask for or can potentially ask for, it might be something that would be good for me or my dog.
>
>
> You take care
>
>
> On 8/6/2018 9:49 AM, Mary Metzger via NAGDU wrote:
>> My Seeing Eye dog and I recently traveled to and from Atlanta on Delta. Although I carried a rabies certificate with me I was not asked for any documentation regarding my dog.
>>
>> Mary Beth Metzger
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Melissa
>> Allman via NAGDU
>> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:06 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>
>> Hi Dan and Parker. There is indeed a lot of confusion surrounding this issue. At this point, you do not need to provide documentation to the airlines proving that your dog is a guide dog or that you need to travel with a guide dog. You can show up as you did before if you would like. You should be able to check in on line or at curb side or at the counter. People traveling with emotional support animals can be required to complete documentation in advance of traveling which is unfortunately where the confusion stems from.
>>
>> If you decide you want or need accommodations, you can let the airline know. For example,, when I have flown American Airlines recently a couple of times and put in my reservation that I am traveling with a guide dog and need accommodations, it automatically brings up this form requesting information about the accommodations needed. Then they call you and ask for information about the weight and breed of your dog. You can either take the call or not. I tend to take the call because I have no objection to providing the information since I know they are not using it to prevent me from flying with my dog. I also know they cannot legally refuse to allow me to sit in the seat I've purchased so if I'm available I take the call and provide the information. Not all airlines do this, I'm just sharing my recent experiences with American.
>>
>> Personally, I prefer to let the airlines know ahead of time about the accommodations I'm requesting i.e. assistance getting to the gate and preboarding because I'm a planner. This is a personal choice.
>>
>> Delta is requiring that all service animal handlers (using the ACAA definition of service animals) carry a rabies certificate but I have been told that unless there's an issue delta will not generally ask people working with guide dogs to produce them and that they are doing it because of the problems associated with emotional support animals. Whether Delta should be requiring everybody traveling with a service animal to carry proof of rabies vaccination is another discussion that is not the focus of my email.
>>
>> International flights are another story and I won't' go into that, but I do want to remind everybody that on flights that last 8 hours or more airlines can ask for verification that the animal will not need to relieve during the flight or that if it does, the situation can be managed in a sanitary way.
>>
>> I hope that helps some.
>>
>> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2018 6:55 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Dan Weiner
>> Subject: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>
>>
>> Hello, beautiful people:
>>
>>
>> Dan W. from Florida with the Parker dog here.
>>
>> I want to clear up something. I hear a lot lately about various airlines, Delta and United for example, requiring documentation, whether vet records or forms filled out for those of us who fly with in quotes service dogs. I put in quotes because I'm a guide dog user and that is what concerns me at this point.. Is any of this stuff applicable to us.
>> I had always thought that in domestic flights in the US that the FAA regulations or air carrier access act allowed access without any additional rigamarole, essential in my traveling days, I would show up, on occasion I told when making the reservation that I had a dog, most times I didn't, and I literally had no problems. So what is the scoop nowadays. It concerns me that when I look at several of the guide dog school web sites here in the States that it seems like they are just going along with it telling students that "remember to check with the airlines about t required forms" or something strange like this.
>>
>> I haven't been flying in several years and am looking to get back in to traveling by air which of course includes my pup.
>>
>> Who can give me the definitive answer...am I as a guide dog user
>> required to fill out these bizarre service dog forms or do anything
>> else in advance or required to bring random documentation on domestic
>> US air flights...I don't mean in quotes "oh the airlines are saying
>> they want it so why not bring it..."smile, I mean the actual
>> requirements, I've even herd from some fellow guide dog users saying
>> "Oh I filled out the forrs and I had no problems the airline such and
>> such was very
>> nice"-- So I don't want that either, anyway you probably get it.
>>
>> Who wants to give me the skinny, the bottom line, the scoop...
>>
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Dan and the Parker Hound
>>
>> smile
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mallman%40seeingeye
>> .org _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mmetzger1%40nycap.r
>> r.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dcwein%40dcwein.cnc
>> .net
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sonfire11%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jordangandbelto%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
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>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 20:30:19 -0400
> From: "Andy Borka" <sonfire11 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
> Message-ID: <000901d42de5$d29974e0$77cc5ea0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> My information came from an AA employee at the checkin counter, and from Amtrak managers for train terminals.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Marianne Denning via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 7:05 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Marianne Denning <marianne at denningweb.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> I was told something very similar one time and I contacted the airport where I receive that information. That is absolutely faults and incorrect information. I think that is an airport employee assuming things they don?t know.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 6, 2018, at 6:13 PM, Andy Borka via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> American told me once that they insist on wheelchairs for two reasons:
>> 1. The employees at the airport are not airline carrier employees. Instead, they are airport employees, which the airline carriers contract through to provide service. This means that the airport employees, unless TSA employees, are not trained on disability specific problems such as dealing with blind people and guide dogs. Thus, they assume every disabled person needs a wheelchair.
>> 2. Like hospitals, a disabled or injured person poses a liability risk on the hospital's insurance. The same with bus terminals, airports, and train stations.
>>
>> Looks like more education on disability related training needs to happen with terminals, and insist that you aren't a liability risk during your visit at the terminal. It throws most employees off kilter enough to get the point across.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Janell via NAGDU
>> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 1:03 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: nellie at culodge.com
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>
>> I flew to O'Hare in Chicago. For my return trip I got to O'Hare and asked for assistance to my gate. They plopped me down somewhere by some desk and I waited for what seemed like forever. I finally heard someone (employee) go to the desk and grab a wheelchair. Not thinking it was for me I didn?t say anything. The employee got over to me and she was a lady from India. She sort of tapped my shoulder and said something I couldn?t understand. I stood up to start walking and she sort of pushed the wheelchair up from behind me so I had no choice to sit down. I could not understand one word she was trying to tell me. I stood up and said I can walk just fine and I am not using a wheelchair. Then we started walking to my gate and she kept muttering "go there, or turn there.) She could tell of my frustration so she grabbed my elbow. I stopped and agreed to grab hers because I knew I was cutting it very close to my departure, and I have tons of anxiety when flying so I was done arguing. I finally got to the security check and she passed me off to a very nice man who got me the rest of the way.
>>
>> Why do employees assume blind people need a wheelchair?
>>
>> On both of my flights that week (united) the flight crew were fantastic and went above and beyond to insure Sully and I were both comfortable. In fact, a young man crew member even came to me before they do their speech on emergency landings etc. and did a one on one session with just me. I have flown for about 20 years since I have been blind and I have never once had an employee take the time to do that.
>>
>> Happy Monday, Janell and Sully
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Melissa Allman via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 10:11 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>
>> HI Dan. I typically ask for assistance getting to the gate an preboarding. I disclose in my reservation that I am blind traveling with a guide dog. Sometimes I get to the counter and find cluelessness about the accommodations I've put in there ahead of time but once they check the reservation it comes together. I often have to stand and wait for an escort provided by the airline to provide assistance getting through security and to the gate and then the decision becomes one about whether to attempt to go it alone or wait for one. Once I get to the gate I let the gate agent know I will need to preboard so they won't forget about me. I always place myself in a seat as close to the counter as possible so I am visible and I often just get up and start walking that direction when it is time to preboard because ultimately you have to rely on yourself. Preboarding is a nice way to get you and your dog on the flight and situated without having to push through throngs of people trying to get on and get access to the overhead compartments. Often I find the conversation goes something like this:
>>
>> Melissa: Good morning I am going to need some assistance getting to the gate and I'll need to preboard. That is in my reservation."
>> Agent: Ok no problem. So we need a wheelchair over here.
>> Melissa: No I do not need a wheelchair. I'm blind but I can walk just fine.
>> Agent: Okay.
>> Escort arriving: Ok mam good morning here's the wheelchair.
>> Melissa: I can walk just fine I don?t' need a wheelchair.
>> Rinke and repeat.
>>
>> Now that I have a dog the wheelchair thing seems to come up less but it still does but I never get in it. Sigh.
>>
>> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:57 AM
>> To: Mary Metzger via NAGDU
>> Cc: Dan Weiner
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>
>> thank you to all, I'm just anticipating that I'll have this type of
>> conversation:
>>
>> "is that a service dog (or ESA, or whatever term_.
>>
>> Dan "I'm blind and it's a guide dog"
>>
>> Air line person "but it doesn't show here that you filled out the form required for service dogs".
>>
>>
>> Dan: "There's probably a misunderstanding, I'm blind and he's a guide dog and those requirements aren't needed for a guide dog".
>>
>> And so on and so on. I just envisage a lot of confusion, and I do understand Melissa's point about talking to the airline in advance, I'm curious what accommodations you ask for or can potentially ask for, it might be something that would be good for me or my dog.
>>
>>
>> You take care
>>
>>
>>> On 8/6/2018 9:49 AM, Mary Metzger via NAGDU wrote:
>>> My Seeing Eye dog and I recently traveled to and from Atlanta on Delta. Although I carried a rabies certificate with me I was not asked for any documentation regarding my dog.
>>>
>>> Mary Beth Metzger
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Melissa
>>> Allman via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:06 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>>
>>> Hi Dan and Parker. There is indeed a lot of confusion surrounding this issue. At this point, you do not need to provide documentation to the airlines proving that your dog is a guide dog or that you need to travel with a guide dog. You can show up as you did before if you would like. You should be able to check in on line or at curb side or at the counter. People traveling with emotional support animals can be required to complete documentation in advance of traveling which is unfortunately where the confusion stems from.
>>>
>>> If you decide you want or need accommodations, you can let the airline know. For example,, when I have flown American Airlines recently a couple of times and put in my reservation that I am traveling with a guide dog and need accommodations, it automatically brings up this form requesting information about the accommodations needed. Then they call you and ask for information about the weight and breed of your dog. You can either take the call or not. I tend to take the call because I have no objection to providing the information since I know they are not using it to prevent me from flying with my dog. I also know they cannot legally refuse to allow me to sit in the seat I've purchased so if I'm available I take the call and provide the information. Not all airlines do this, I'm just sharing my recent experiences with American.
>>>
>>> Personally, I prefer to let the airlines know ahead of time about the accommodations I'm requesting i.e. assistance getting to the gate and preboarding because I'm a planner. This is a personal choice.
>>>
>>> Delta is requiring that all service animal handlers (using the ACAA definition of service animals) carry a rabies certificate but I have been told that unless there's an issue delta will not generally ask people working with guide dogs to produce them and that they are doing it because of the problems associated with emotional support animals. Whether Delta should be requiring everybody traveling with a service animal to carry proof of rabies vaccination is another discussion that is not the focus of my email.
>>>
>>> International flights are another story and I won't' go into that, but I do want to remind everybody that on flights that last 8 hours or more airlines can ask for verification that the animal will not need to relieve during the flight or that if it does, the situation can be managed in a sanitary way.
>>>
>>> I hope that helps some.
>>>
>>> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
>>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
>>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
>>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner
>>> via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2018 6:55 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Cc: Dan Weiner
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello, beautiful people:
>>>
>>>
>>> Dan W. from Florida with the Parker dog here.
>>>
>>> I want to clear up something. I hear a lot lately about various airlines, Delta and United for example, requiring documentation, whether vet records or forms filled out for those of us who fly with in quotes service dogs. I put in quotes because I'm a guide dog user and that is what concerns me at this point.. Is any of this stuff applicable to us.
>>> I had always thought that in domestic flights in the US that the FAA regulations or air carrier access act allowed access without any additional rigamarole, essential in my traveling days, I would show up, on occasion I told when making the reservation that I had a dog, most times I didn't, and I literally had no problems. So what is the scoop nowadays. It concerns me that when I look at several of the guide dog school web sites here in the States that it seems like they are just going along with it telling students that "remember to check with the airlines about t required forms" or something strange like this.
>>>
>>> I haven't been flying in several years and am looking to get back in to traveling by air which of course includes my pup.
>>>
>>> Who can give me the definitive answer...am I as a guide dog user
>>> required to fill out these bizarre service dog forms or do anything
>>> else in advance or required to bring random documentation on domestic
>>> US air flights...I don't mean in quotes "oh the airlines are saying
>>> they want it so why not bring it..."smile, I mean the actual
>>> requirements, I've even herd from some fellow guide dog users saying
>>> "Oh I filled out the forrs and I had no problems the airline such
>>> and such was very
>>> nice"-- So I don't want that either, anyway you probably get it.
>>>
>>> Who wants to give me the skinny, the bottom line, the scoop...
>>>
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>>
>>> Dan and the Parker Hound
>>>
>>> smile
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mallman%40seeingey
>>> e .org _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mmetzger1%40nycap.
>>> r
>>> r.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dcwein%40dcwein.cn
>>> c
>>> .net
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
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>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mallman%40seeingeye
>> .org _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
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>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/nellie%40culodge.co
>> m
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
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>> om
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>>
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/marianne%40denningw
>> eb.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sonfire11%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 20:13:06 -0500
> From: Jordan Gallacher <jordangandbelto at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
> Message-ID: <D9D7FE46-69BC-4903-A534-9E7D4460FA93 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Guess what. My information about Amtrak came from their legal department when I had a long discussion with them about not properly giving assistance to their disabled passengers, and their employees and contractors are required to give appropriate assistance to disabled passengers. As for AA, that was just a clerk not someone who knows proper policies and procedures. Airlines and their contractors must provide appropriate assistance, and I am currently having a discussion with Southwest about this because of the screw up going out of New Orleans where the person assisting me after being told the correct gate by the ticket agent and me, still took me to the incorrect gate. Southwest made it very clear that contractors are supposed to provide proper assistance. I have also had plenty of conversations with AA employees who have said the same thing over the years when I have used AA. AA and Southwest have been the only two airlines to pay attention and have either someone on the way or already at the gate once I have arrived at my destination. So the fact is that what someone might say might not be correct. This is from he who travels quite often and knows the ropes better than most.
> Jordan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 6, 2018, at 7:30 PM, Andy Borka via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> My information came from an AA employee at the checkin counter, and from Amtrak managers for train terminals.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Marianne Denning via NAGDU
>> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 7:05 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Marianne Denning <marianne at denningweb.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>
>> I was told something very similar one time and I contacted the airport where I receive that information. That is absolutely faults and incorrect information. I think that is an airport employee assuming things they don?t know.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Aug 6, 2018, at 6:13 PM, Andy Borka via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> American told me once that they insist on wheelchairs for two reasons:
>>> 1. The employees at the airport are not airline carrier employees. Instead, they are airport employees, which the airline carriers contract through to provide service. This means that the airport employees, unless TSA employees, are not trained on disability specific problems such as dealing with blind people and guide dogs. Thus, they assume every disabled person needs a wheelchair.
>>> 2. Like hospitals, a disabled or injured person poses a liability risk on the hospital's insurance. The same with bus terminals, airports, and train stations.
>>>
>>> Looks like more education on disability related training needs to happen with terminals, and insist that you aren't a liability risk during your visit at the terminal. It throws most employees off kilter enough to get the point across.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Janell via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 1:03 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: nellie at culodge.com
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>>
>>> I flew to O'Hare in Chicago. For my return trip I got to O'Hare and asked for assistance to my gate. They plopped me down somewhere by some desk and I waited for what seemed like forever. I finally heard someone (employee) go to the desk and grab a wheelchair. Not thinking it was for me I didn?t say anything. The employee got over to me and she was a lady from India. She sort of tapped my shoulder and said something I couldn?t understand. I stood up to start walking and she sort of pushed the wheelchair up from behind me so I had no choice to sit down. I could not understand one word she was trying to tell me. I stood up and said I can walk just fine and I am not using a wheelchair. Then we started walking to my gate and she kept muttering "go there, or turn there.) She could tell of my frustration so she grabbed my elbow. I stopped and agreed to grab hers because I knew I was cutting it very close to my departure, and I have tons of anxiety when flying so I was done arguing. I finally got to the security check and she passed me off to a very nice man who got me the rest of the way.
>>>
>>> Why do employees assume blind people need a wheelchair?
>>>
>>> On both of my flights that week (united) the flight crew were fantastic and went above and beyond to insure Sully and I were both comfortable. In fact, a young man crew member even came to me before they do their speech on emergency landings etc. and did a one on one session with just me. I have flown for about 20 years since I have been blind and I have never once had an employee take the time to do that.
>>>
>>> Happy Monday, Janell and Sully
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Melissa Allman via
>>> NAGDU
>>> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 10:11 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>>
>>> HI Dan. I typically ask for assistance getting to the gate an preboarding. I disclose in my reservation that I am blind traveling with a guide dog. Sometimes I get to the counter and find cluelessness about the accommodations I've put in there ahead of time but once they check the reservation it comes together. I often have to stand and wait for an escort provided by the airline to provide assistance getting through security and to the gate and then the decision becomes one about whether to attempt to go it alone or wait for one. Once I get to the gate I let the gate agent know I will need to preboard so they won't forget about me. I always place myself in a seat as close to the counter as possible so I am visible and I often just get up and start walking that direction when it is time to preboard because ultimately you have to rely on yourself. Preboarding is a nice way to get you and your dog on the flight and situated without having to push through throngs of people trying to get on and get access to the overhead compartments. Often I find the conversation goes something like this:
>>>
>>> Melissa: Good morning I am going to need some assistance getting to the gate and I'll need to preboard. That is in my reservation."
>>> Agent: Ok no problem. So we need a wheelchair over here.
>>> Melissa: No I do not need a wheelchair. I'm blind but I can walk just fine.
>>> Agent: Okay.
>>> Escort arriving: Ok mam good morning here's the wheelchair.
>>> Melissa: I can walk just fine I don?t' need a wheelchair.
>>> Rinke and repeat.
>>>
>>> Now that I have a dog the wheelchair thing seems to come up less but it still does but I never get in it. Sigh.
>>>
>>> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
>>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
>>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
>>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner
>>> via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:57 AM
>>> To: Mary Metzger via NAGDU
>>> Cc: Dan Weiner
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>>
>>> thank you to all, I'm just anticipating that I'll have this type of
>>> conversation:
>>>
>>> "is that a service dog (or ESA, or whatever term_.
>>>
>>> Dan "I'm blind and it's a guide dog"
>>>
>>> Air line person "but it doesn't show here that you filled out the form required for service dogs".
>>>
>>>
>>> Dan: "There's probably a misunderstanding, I'm blind and he's a guide dog and those requirements aren't needed for a guide dog".
>>>
>>> And so on and so on. I just envisage a lot of confusion, and I do understand Melissa's point about talking to the airline in advance, I'm curious what accommodations you ask for or can potentially ask for, it might be something that would be good for me or my dog.
>>>
>>>
>>> You take care
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 8/6/2018 9:49 AM, Mary Metzger via NAGDU wrote:
>>>> My Seeing Eye dog and I recently traveled to and from Atlanta on Delta. Although I carried a rabies certificate with me I was not asked for any documentation regarding my dog.
>>>>
>>>> Mary Beth Metzger
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Melissa
>>>> Allman via NAGDU
>>>> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 9:06 AM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>>>
>>>> Hi Dan and Parker. There is indeed a lot of confusion surrounding this issue. At this point, you do not need to provide documentation to the airlines proving that your dog is a guide dog or that you need to travel with a guide dog. You can show up as you did before if you would like. You should be able to check in on line or at curb side or at the counter. People traveling with emotional support animals can be required to complete documentation in advance of traveling which is unfortunately where the confusion stems from.
>>>>
>>>> If you decide you want or need accommodations, you can let the airline know. For example,, when I have flown American Airlines recently a couple of times and put in my reservation that I am traveling with a guide dog and need accommodations, it automatically brings up this form requesting information about the accommodations needed. Then they call you and ask for information about the weight and breed of your dog. You can either take the call or not. I tend to take the call because I have no objection to providing the information since I know they are not using it to prevent me from flying with my dog. I also know they cannot legally refuse to allow me to sit in the seat I've purchased so if I'm available I take the call and provide the information. Not all airlines do this, I'm just sharing my recent experiences with American.
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I prefer to let the airlines know ahead of time about the accommodations I'm requesting i.e. assistance getting to the gate and preboarding because I'm a planner. This is a personal choice.
>>>>
>>>> Delta is requiring that all service animal handlers (using the ACAA definition of service animals) carry a rabies certificate but I have been told that unless there's an issue delta will not generally ask people working with guide dogs to produce them and that they are doing it because of the problems associated with emotional support animals. Whether Delta should be requiring everybody traveling with a service animal to carry proof of rabies vaccination is another discussion that is not the focus of my email.
>>>>
>>>> International flights are another story and I won't' go into that, but I do want to remind everybody that on flights that last 8 hours or more airlines can ask for verification that the animal will not need to relieve during the flight or that if it does, the situation can be managed in a sanitary way.
>>>>
>>>> I hope that helps some.
>>>>
>>>> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
>>>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
>>>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>>>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
>>>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner
>>>> via NAGDU
>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2018 6:55 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Cc: Dan Weiner
>>>> Subject: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello, beautiful people:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dan W. from Florida with the Parker dog here.
>>>>
>>>> I want to clear up something. I hear a lot lately about various airlines, Delta and United for example, requiring documentation, whether vet records or forms filled out for those of us who fly with in quotes service dogs. I put in quotes because I'm a guide dog user and that is what concerns me at this point.. Is any of this stuff applicable to us.
>>>> I had always thought that in domestic flights in the US that the FAA regulations or air carrier access act allowed access without any additional rigamarole, essential in my traveling days, I would show up, on occasion I told when making the reservation that I had a dog, most times I didn't, and I literally had no problems. So what is the scoop nowadays. It concerns me that when I look at several of the guide dog school web sites here in the States that it seems like they are just going along with it telling students that "remember to check with the airlines about t required forms" or something strange like this.
>>>>
>>>> I haven't been flying in several years and am looking to get back in to traveling by air which of course includes my pup.
>>>>
>>>> Who can give me the definitive answer...am I as a guide dog user
>>>> required to fill out these bizarre service dog forms or do anything
>>>> else in advance or required to bring random documentation on domestic
>>>> US air flights...I don't mean in quotes "oh the airlines are saying
>>>> they want it so why not bring it..."smile, I mean the actual
>>>> requirements, I've even herd from some fellow guide dog users saying
>>>> "Oh I filled out the forrs and I had no problems the airline such
>>>> and such was very
>>>> nice"-- So I don't want that either, anyway you probably get it.
>>>>
>>>> Who wants to give me the skinny, the bottom line, the scoop...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yours,
>>>>
>>>> Dan and the Parker Hound
>>>>
>>>> smile
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mallman%40seeingey
>>>> e .org _______________________________________________
>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mmetzger1%40nycap.
>>>> r
>>>> r.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dcwein%40dcwein.cn
>>>> c
>>>> .net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
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>>> .org _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/nellie%40culodge.co
>>> m
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sonfire11%40gmail.c
>>> om
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/marianne%40denningw
>>> eb.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sonfire11%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jordangandbelto%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 18:17:37 -0700
> From: "Michael Hingson" <mike at michaelhingson.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
> Message-ID: <000701d42dec$7215cc70$56416550$@michaelhingson.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi,
>
> You can't. It is all about how well you know your dog and how you prepare
> before flying. I can say with certainty that if my dog needs to relieve
> while on a flight, or between flights, there is something wrong. I have
> learned my dog's capabilities and I have taught Alamo to relieve usually at
> specific times.
>
> This is what we all learn in class before leaving a guide dog program with
> our dogs. If your dog needs to relieve more often or if there is some kind
> of medical issue then you need to account for that. Frequent blind air
> travelers using guide dogs will tell you that you are the one who needs to
> know your dog and to manage accordingly.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Andy Borka via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 3:33 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Andy Borka <sonfire11 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> How do you give evidence that a dog doesn't have to empty during an 8+ hour
> flight?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Melissa Allman via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 9:06 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
> Hi Dan and Parker. There is indeed a lot of confusion surrounding this
> issue. At this point, you do not need to provide documentation to the
> airlines proving that your dog is a guide dog or that you need to travel
> with a guide dog. You can show up as you did before if you would like. You
> should be able to check in on line or at curb side or at the counter. People
> traveling with emotional support animals can be required to complete
> documentation in advance of traveling which is unfortunately where the
> confusion stems from.
>
> If you decide you want or need accommodations, you can let the airline know.
> For example,, when I have flown American Airlines recently a couple of times
> and put in my reservation that I am traveling with a guide dog and need
> accommodations, it automatically brings up this form requesting information
> about the accommodations needed. Then they call you and ask for information
> about the weight and breed of your dog. You can either take the call or not.
> I tend to take the call because I have no objection to providing the
> information since I know they are not using it to prevent me from flying
> with my dog. I also know they cannot legally refuse to allow me to sit in
> the seat I've purchased so if I'm available I take the call and provide the
> information. Not all airlines do this, I'm just sharing my recent
> experiences with American.
>
> Personally, I prefer to let the airlines know ahead of time about the
> accommodations I'm requesting i.e. assistance getting to the gate and
> preboarding because I'm a planner. This is a personal choice.
>
> Delta is requiring that all service animal handlers (using the ACAA
> definition of service animals) carry a rabies certificate but I have been
> told that unless there's an issue delta will not generally ask people
> working with guide dogs to produce them and that they are doing it because
> of the problems associated with emotional support animals. Whether Delta
> should be requiring everybody traveling with a service animal to carry proof
> of rabies vaccination is another discussion that is not the focus of my
> email.
>
> International flights are another story and I won't' go into that, but I do
> want to remind everybody that on flights that last 8 hours or more airlines
> can ask for verification that the animal will not need to relieve during the
> flight or that if it does, the situation can be managed in a sanitary way.
>
> I hope that helps some.
>
> Melissa R. Allman, Esq.
> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2018 6:55 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Dan Weiner
> Subject: [NAGDU] going on US domestic flights with a guide dog
>
>
> Hello, beautiful people:
>
>
> Dan W. from Florida with the Parker dog here.
>
> I want to clear up something. I hear a lot lately about various airlines,
> Delta and United for example, requiring documentation, whether vet records
> or forms filled out for those of us who fly with in quotes service dogs. I
> put in quotes because I'm a guide dog user and that is what concerns me at
> this point.. Is any of this stuff applicable to us.
> I had always thought that in domestic flights in the US that the FAA
> regulations or air carrier access act allowed access without any additional
> rigamarole, essential in my traveling days, I would show up, on occasion I
> told when making the reservation that I had a dog, most times I didn't, and
> I literally had no problems. So what is the scoop nowadays. It concerns me
> that when I look at several of the guide dog school web sites here in the
> States that it seems like they are just going along with it telling
> students that "remember to check with the airlines about t required forms"
> or something strange like this.
>
> I haven't been flying in several years and am looking to get back in to
> traveling by air which of course includes my pup.
>
> Who can give me the definitive answer...am I as a guide dog user required to
> fill out these bizarre service dog forms or do anything else in advance or
> required to bring random documentation on domestic US air flights...I don't
> mean in quotes "oh the airlines are saying they want it so why not bring
> it..."smile, I mean the actual requirements, I've even herd from some fellow
> guide dog users saying "Oh I filled out the forrs and I had no problems
> the airline such and such was very
> nice"-- So I don't want that either, anyway you probably get it.
>
> Who wants to give me the skinny, the bottom line, the scoop...
>
>
> Yours,
>
> Dan and the Parker Hound
>
> smile
>
>
>
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