[NAGDU] FHA question
Star Gazer
pickrellrebecca at gmail.com
Thu Sep 20 23:02:50 UTC 2018
The hma ??
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 20, 2018, at 6:41 PM, Janell via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Julie, please understand me completely and 100%... I fully understand the
> HMA regulations as well as guide dog laws and I find it offensive that you
> say otherwise because you have differing opinions. Again, for the third
> time, this dog is trained (according to my renter) her dog is highly trained
> and again, according to her it is necessary for her to have this dog as a
> companion because of her anxiety, yet she never has the dog with her. I
> will not be bullied by your comments and I think we will just have to
> respectfully disagree. You are certainly not going to change my mind and I
> am not going to change yours. This is not the first disagreement we have
> had and I welcome your opinion and it does make for some interesting
> conversation.
>
> -Janell
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Julie Johnson via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 5:24 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Julie Johnson <julielj at neb.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FHA question
>
> You said you read the FHA. Like Rox and others are trying to explain to
> you. Emotional support animals, ESA, are legally allowed under the Fair
> Housing Act and currently the Air Carrier Access Act. This means that
> people can have untrained pets in their homes and on planes to provide
> emotional support. These animals do what they do by the fact of their
> existence. They are not individually trained to do any specific tasks.
>
> If you want to take your dog into public places, grocery stores, banks,
> doctor's offices etc, then your dog has to be individually trained to
> mitigate your disability. This includes cognitive and psychiatric
> disabilities. However as soon as the dog has received training to act
> appropriately in public and perform disability related tasks for the
> handler, it is not an ESA, it is a legitimate service dog.
>
> I am saying that the particular woman you brought up is following the law by
>
> not taking her ESA in public. She finds other ways to deal with her health
>
> related concerns, which is great. Having a variety of coping strategies is
> a good thing. We encourage guide dog users to keep up with cane skills.
> Folks with other types of disabilities also have different strategies
> available to them.
>
> There are certainly people who take their ESA's into public and that is a
> problem. I have never said having untrained and ill behaved dogs in public
> isn't a problem. These people are taking advantage of business owners lack
> of understanding of the law. There are loads of companies on the internet
> that are promoting this bad behavior by providing unnecessary documentation,
> which furthers the confusion.
>
> More questions? I'm happy to help you understand. As a landlord it is
> particularly important for you to understand the differences between the FHA
> and ADA.
>
> Julie
> On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com
> http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
> also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall
> <https://www.blindmicemegamall.com/bmm/shop/Directory_Departments?storeid=19
> 16046>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Janell via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 4:59 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: nellie at culodge.com
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FHA question
>
> Why are you saying that ESA's are only for home only? That is completely
> preposterous!!!! Again, if home use is "the only" reason they have an ESA
> animal, then why are they taking them virtually everywhere?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Julie Johnson via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 4:40 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Julie Johnson <julielj at neb.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FHA question
>
> Glad I could make your day!
>
> No, of course I'm not saying she doesn't have anxiety when she leaves her
> home. What I am saying is that ESA's are for home only, so she is doing the
> legal thing.
>
> So many people complain about people abusing the ESA laws and taking their
> untrained dogs in public. Here's a woman who is doing the right and legal
> thing and leaving her ESA at home, but still the complaints roll in.
>
> Blind people aren't the only folks who can benefit from dogs. It bothers me
> greatly that other uses that are legally allowed, are summarily dismissed as
> being categorically fraudulent.
>
> Julie
> On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com
> http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
> also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall
> <https://www.blindmicemegamall.com/bmm/shop/Directory_Departments?storeid=19
> 16046>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Janell via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 2:45 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: nellie at culodge.com
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FHA question
>
> I disagree Julie,
>
> Are you saying she only has anxiety/stress when she is at home? I figured I
> would get some backlash from my email when my only point was to tell you of
> the ESA laws regarding ESA animals. Thanks for not disappointing.
> Naturally I know that any animal(service animal or not) still have to abide
> by the same rules as any other animal.
>
> If ESA's are in your words "only for at home" then why in the world are
> they everywhere... stores, air ports, businesses etc.?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Julie Johnson via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 12:13 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Julie Johnson <julielj at neb.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FHA question
>
> ESA's under the FHA are for in her home only. The fact that she doesn't have
> it with her when she is out and about is what should be happening.
>
> I would think the barking should be handled like any other noise issue,
> stereos up too loud, loud parties etc. However you would address those
> issues with tenants is how the barking should be handled.
>
> Julie
> On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com
> http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
> also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall
> <https://www.blindmicemegamall.com/bmm/shop/Directory_Departments?storeid=19
> 16046>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Janell via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 10:18 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: nellie at culodge.com
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FHA question
>
> We do have a Tennent that claims she needs an ESA dog and she provided us
> with some ridiculous certificate she printed on-line. She says she is in
> dire need of this dog yet she never has it with her and we have had
> complaints about the dog barking all day and night when she is gone. Now
> she told us she is also going to have an ESA cat. I looked up the laws in
> Wisconsin and sure enough she can have more than one ESA animal and we can't
> say anything about it. It is just her way of getting to have a pet. I
> fully understand that there are folks who really do benefit from ESA animals
> but in this particular situation it is not legit and we can't do anything
> about it.
>
> Just food for thought...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Dan Weiner via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 11:00 PM
> To: Jordan Gallacher via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FHA question
>
> I know this isn't a helpful comment, but I wonder if all the folks with
> illigit so- called service animals, folks who have pets and they buy a
> certificate on line, or get their doc to write a note, have indeed caused
> this problem to come in to being. I know a guy in my area who literally got
> his doctor to write a note saying his cat is a service animal and then he
> showed it to his apartment office as it's a no pets apartment or
> something...so it does seem to be a more widespread problem then I would
> have thought. I was actually surprised he didn't at least have the brains
> to keep that under raps but he seems to be telling everyone, oh well, ..
>
>
> The point is, if people with what would I call it, fake service animals act
> all official about it and show certification or supposed certification to
> get away with stuff, then can you hardly blame the uneducated public for
> asking about this stuff. I do suspect, though it's total ignorance and
> probably the first thing that comes in to their mind, the public that is,
> rather than anything based on misleading precedent.
>
> .I wish you good luck, Jordan, if it's not one thing it seems to be another,
> right?--smile
>
>
> Dan the man and Parker the nut
>
>
>
>> On 9/19/2018 11:30 PM, Jordan Gallacher via NAGDU wrote:
>> Thanks for the responses. That is exactly what I thought. I am going
>> to wait for them to ask again and decide how to handle it.
>> Jordan
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Sep 19, 2018, at 10:23 PM, Janell via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello Jordan,
>>>
>>> I own numerous properties in Wisconsin and it is 100% not okay that
>>> your landlord is asking about Belto. They can not only not ask about
>>> him, they cannot ask for a separate pet deposit nor can they ask for
>>> an additional monthly fee for a service animal. They can however
>>> get/ask/require any damages (if any) from any animal (service dog or
>>> not) if there are any damages to the property.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps, Janell
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Melissa Allman
>>> via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 1:21 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FHA question
>>>
>>> Hi Jordan. I've attached some guidance published by HUD in 2013
>>> concerning assistance animals. It applies to both private and public
>>> housing. Below is some pertinent language from the memo I think you
>>> will find helpful.
>>> Basically, no the landlord cannot ask for certification to prove that
>>> Belto is a service animal. See below and attached:
>>>
>>> "However, a housing provider may not ask a tenant or applicant to
>>> provide documentation showing the disability or disability-related
>>> need for an assistance animal if the disability or disability-related
>>> need is readily apparent or already known to the provider. For
>>> example, persons who are blind or have low vision may not be asked to
>>> provide documentation of their disability or their disability-related
>>> need for a guide dog."
>>>
>>>
>>> Melissa R. Allman
>>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye, Inc.
>>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
>>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724, Fax: 973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan
>>> Gallacher via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 1:52 PM
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: Jordan Gallacher
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] FHA question
>>>
>>> I have a question. Is it legal under the FHA for my landlord to be
>>> asking for certification that Belto is a service animal?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jordan
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
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> om
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