[NAGDU] FHA question

Fri Sep 21 00:09:23 UTC 2018

I think this topic needs to be visited in an even and kindly manner. No one
was bullying here. Nothing was previously said about the woman's dog being
highly trained. The word was that she gave Janelle a ridiculous certifying
thing. Now she is being defended. Folks, there seems to be a major
communications gap on this topic. Read the messages carefully and respond
accordingly. Jordan, Janelle seems to know the laws, though we can all
afford to review them from time to time when in a landlord situation. 
Rebecca, don't poke fun at typos in messages. Who knows, I might make one in
this one. This is a good topic if it changes in tone.
Cindy Lou Ray, Moderator
cindyray at gmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Star Gazer via NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 6:03 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Star Gazer <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FHA question

The hma ?? 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 20, 2018, at 6:41 PM, Janell via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Julie, please understand me completely and 100%... I fully understand 
> the HMA regulations as well as guide dog laws and I find it offensive 
> that you say otherwise because you have differing opinions.  Again, 
> for the third time, this dog is trained (according to my renter) her 
> dog is highly trained and again, according to her it is necessary for 
> her to have this dog as a companion because of her anxiety, yet she 
> never has the dog with her.  I will not be bullied by your comments 
> and I think we will just have to respectfully disagree.  You are 
> certainly not going to change my mind and I am not going to change 
> yours.  This is not the first disagreement we have had and I welcome 
> your opinion and it does make for some interesting conversation.
> 
> -Janell
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Julie Johnson via 
> NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 5:24 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Julie Johnson <julielj at neb.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FHA question
> 
> You said you read the FHA.   Like Rox and others are trying to explain to 
> you.  Emotional support animals, ESA, are legally allowed under the 
> Fair Housing Act and currently the Air Carrier Access Act.  This means 
> that people can have untrained pets in their homes and on planes to 
> provide emotional support.  These animals do what they do by the fact 
> of their existence.  They are not individually trained to do any specific
tasks.
> 
> If you want to take your dog into public places, grocery stores, 
> banks, doctor's offices etc, then your dog has to be individually 
> trained to mitigate your disability.  This includes cognitive and 
> psychiatric disabilities.  However as soon as the dog has received 
> training to act appropriately in public and perform disability related 
> tasks for the handler, it is not an ESA, it is a legitimate service dog.
> 
> I am saying that the particular woman you brought up is following the 
> law by
> 
> not taking her ESA in public.   She finds other ways to deal with her
health
> 
> related concerns, which is great.  Having a variety of coping 
> strategies is a good thing.  We encourage guide dog users to keep up with
cane skills.
> Folks with other types of disabilities also have different strategies 
> available to them.
> 
> There are certainly people who take their ESA's into public and that 
> is a problem.  I have never said having untrained and ill behaved dogs 
> in public isn't a problem.  These people are taking advantage of business
owners lack
> of understanding of the law.   There are loads of companies on the
internet 
> that are promoting this bad behavior by providing unnecessary 
> documentation, which furthers the confusion.
> 
> More questions?  I'm happy to help you understand.  As a landlord it 
> is particularly important for you to understand the differences 
> between the FHA and ADA.
> 
> Julie
> On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com 
> http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
> also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall
> <https://www.blindmicemegamall.com/bmm/shop/Directory_Departments?stor
> eid=19
> 16046>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Janell via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 4:59 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: nellie at culodge.com
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FHA question
> 
> Why are you saying that ESA's are only for home only?  That is completely
> preposterous!!!!   Again, if home use is "the only" reason they have an
ESA
> animal, then why are they taking them virtually everywhere?
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Julie Johnson via 
> NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 4:40 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Julie Johnson <julielj at neb.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FHA question
> 
> Glad I could make your day!
> 
> No, of course I'm not saying she doesn't have anxiety when she leaves 
> her home.  What I am saying is that ESA's are for home only, so she is 
> doing the legal thing.
> 
> So many people complain about people abusing the ESA laws and taking 
> their untrained dogs in public.  Here's a woman who is doing the right 
> and legal thing and leaving her ESA at home, but still the complaints roll
in.
> 
> Blind people aren't the only folks who can benefit from dogs.  It 
> bothers me greatly that other uses that are legally allowed, are 
> summarily dismissed as being categorically fraudulent.
> 
> Julie
> On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com 
> http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
> also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall
> <https://www.blindmicemegamall.com/bmm/shop/Directory_Departments?stor
> eid=19
> 16046>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Janell via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 2:45 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: nellie at culodge.com
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FHA question
> 
> I disagree Julie,
> 
> Are you saying she only has anxiety/stress when she is at home?  I 
> figured I would get some backlash from my email when my only point was 
> to tell you of the ESA laws regarding ESA animals.  Thanks for not
disappointing.
> Naturally I know that any animal(service animal or not) still have to 
> abide by the same rules as any other animal.
> 
> If ESA's are  in your words "only for at home" then why in the world 
> are they everywhere... stores, air ports, businesses etc.?
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Julie Johnson via 
> NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 12:13 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Julie Johnson <julielj at neb.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FHA question
> 
> ESA's under the FHA are for in her home only. The fact that she 
> doesn't have it with her when she is out and about is what should be
happening.
> 
> I would think the barking should be handled like any other noise issue,
> stereos up too loud, loud parties etc.   However you would address those
> issues with tenants is how the barking should be handled.
> 
> Julie
> On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com 
> http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
> also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall
> <https://www.blindmicemegamall.com/bmm/shop/Directory_Departments?stor
> eid=19
> 16046>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Janell via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 10:18 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: nellie at culodge.com
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FHA question
> 
> We do have a Tennent that claims she needs an ESA dog and she provided 
> us with some ridiculous certificate she printed on-line.  She says she 
> is in dire need of this dog yet she never has it with her and we have 
> had complaints about the dog barking all day and night when she is 
> gone.  Now she told us she is also going to have an ESA cat.  I looked 
> up the laws in Wisconsin and sure enough she can have more than one 
> ESA animal and we can't say anything about it.  It is just her way of 
> getting to have a pet.  I fully understand that there are folks who 
> really do benefit from ESA animals but in this particular situation it 
> is not legit and we can't  do anything about it.
> 
> Just food for thought...
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Dan Weiner via 
> NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 11:00 PM
> To: Jordan Gallacher via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FHA question
> 
> I know this isn't a helpful comment, but I wonder if all the folks 
> with illigit so- called service animals, folks who have pets and they 
> buy a certificate on line, or get their doc to write a note, have 
> indeed caused this problem to come in to being. I know a guy in my 
> area who literally got his doctor to write a note saying his cat is a 
> service animal and then he showed it to his apartment office as it's a 
> no pets apartment or something...so it does seem to be a more 
> widespread problem then I would have thought.  I was actually 
> surprised he didn't at least have the brains to keep that under raps but
he seems to be telling everyone, oh well, ..
> 
> 
> The point is, if people with what would I call it, fake service 
> animals act all  official about it and show certification or supposed 
> certification to get away with stuff, then can you hardly blame the 
> uneducated public for asking about this stuff. I do suspect, though 
> it's total ignorance and probably the first thing that comes in to 
> their mind, the public that is, rather than anything based on misleading
precedent.
> 
> .I wish you good luck, Jordan, if it's not one thing it seems to be 
> another, right?--smile
> 
> 
> Dan the man and Parker the nut
> 
> 
> 
>> On 9/19/2018 11:30 PM, Jordan Gallacher via NAGDU wrote:
>> Thanks for the responses. That is exactly what I thought. I am going 
>> to wait for them to ask again and decide how to handle it.
>> Jordan
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 19, 2018, at 10:23 PM, Janell via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Jordan,
>>> 
>>> I own numerous properties in Wisconsin and it is 100% not okay that 
>>> your landlord is asking about Belto.  They can not only not ask 
>>> about him, they cannot ask for a separate pet deposit nor can they 
>>> ask for an additional monthly fee for a service animal.  They can 
>>> however get/ask/require any damages (if any) from any animal 
>>> (service dog or
>>> not) if there are any damages to the property.
>>> 
>>> Hope this helps, Janell
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Melissa Allman 
>>> via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 1:21 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Melissa Allman <MAllman at seeingeye.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FHA question
>>> 
>>> Hi Jordan. I've attached some guidance published by HUD in 2013 
>>> concerning assistance animals. It applies to both private and public 
>>> housing. Below is some pertinent language from the memo I think you 
>>> will find helpful.
>>> Basically, no the landlord cannot ask for certification to prove 
>>> that Belto is a service animal. See below and attached:
>>> 
>>> "However, a housing provider may not ask a tenant or applicant to 
>>> provide documentation showing the disability or disability-related 
>>> need for an assistance animal if the disability or 
>>> disability-related need is readily apparent or already known to the 
>>> provider. For example, persons who are blind or have low vision may 
>>> not be asked to provide documentation of their disability or their 
>>> disability-related need for a guide dog."
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Melissa R. Allman
>>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye,
Inc.
>>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
>>> 10 Washington Valley Road, Morristown, NJ 07960-3412 (deliveries)
>>> 973-539-4425 ext. 1724,     Fax:  973-525-1081 mallman at SeeingEye.org
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan 
>>> Gallacher via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 1:52 PM
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: Jordan Gallacher
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] FHA question
>>> 
>>> I have a question. Is it legal under the FHA for my landlord to be 
>>> asking for certification that Belto is a service animal?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jordan
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
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> om
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