[NAGDU] For Afik
Peter Wolf
pwolf1 at wolfskills.com
Fri Feb 22 06:31:19 UTC 2019
Afik,
Please pardon grammar, I am dictating..
It sounds like you are looking for options. I might be one of those people who can provide some insight on options for you, because my scenario is not straightforward, and I do not use a program dog. We self trained. I got into this in the first place, getting a puppy and planning to self train, at a time when I did not yet know that I would have qualified for a dog.
Because I am not totally blind, it seemed that I had somewhat different of needs in a dog teaming. For one thing, my right side is more blind, and I do not feel space around me. So for the reason that I tend to bang into things more on my right side than on my left side, I trained my dog from the start to walk on my right side. That was a simple damage control solution.
I then trained her to sometimes walk on my left if I needed. But I would say that we spend 85% of the time with her walking to my right. And as habits go, also, if we are ever in a pinch where I have too many things in my arms, and the door is small or too fast, metukah defaults and goes through the door on my right. Michael Hingson had some good things to say about this, that it is good to break some of these kinds of habits that dogs can develop. In this case I am a good example of this, for doors. If it gets too tight or fast, Metukah might slip by on the other side. To correct this and keep us current, we do a quick replay and make it right. But I have to remember that she does this because I can default to my bizarre vision, which has no walking peripheral vision, and I am the one who trained her to keep clear of swinging doors because I missed where she was and she really took a few good head knocks in early training from swinging doors and gates where I did not exactly know where she was. This is why I try to pay so much more attention for us, but also for her!
Another thing is that my issues are most requiring of a dog and or a cane when close in to my body, primarily inside of the range of my cane. For that, neurologically, I am essentially blind. Strangely, with these brain things, it's not so bad out there in the distance. But I don't live ten, or a hundred, or a thousand feet out away from my body. I live and operate within my own arms and legs reach! For this, I trained with a school to train my dog for particular needs which are primarily walking, and stairs. So I hope that you're getting an example from me too, in this group, that many of us have found our own ways. Perhaps especially if we have self trained. I will say in regard to any handlers out there reading this, that I get plenty of moments to envy you guys, in that you got an amazingly trained package of supercharged professional wonderfulness if you got a program dog. There is so much depth and effectiveness in that training, and my job by comparison was to find out... how to find out…how to train and start from scratch myself. Every cloud has its silver lining.
I did not have my dog for a very long when I began O & M training. The cane is very useful to me. But there are times travelling, when I have exhausted my dog, and I must let her rest. If she is going to work that hard, and she needs some sleep, it is time for me to drive a cane for a while and let her. Or, the particular thing I am about to do would be better if I just go at it by cane, not dog. There are those times. One amazing thing my dog is good for is this. If I am going downstairs, I will swear to god that I am stepping off of at thousand foot cliff and I am going to die now. I can talk to myself all day about it. But dying is the truth in every cell of my body. I simply cannot feel it spatially, or pick it up tactilly through the handle of the cane in my hand. What my hand gets means absolutely nothing to me when descending. And so, in that case I either make sure to use the rail while I am using my cane, (and I still don’t feel it but at least I can be dangle off the cliff from a rail), or I'll use my dog, and sometimes it is both. So for me this is variable.
So I hope that this helps you, particularly, in knowing that we each have particular needs. I simply liked the idea, that I could work with a program who would train me, to train my dog, for my own particular disabilities, in the way that I live and want to live.
I believe, that if I were to get a program dog, in the way that I live in my own body, that I might feel too slowed-down or controlled. That is because I tend to move pretty fast. I was a ballet dancer. I've done martial arts for almost my whole life. I tend to move spontaneously and fast, even if it gets me racked up on the landscape! I want to keep expanding my body mobility and awareness, not just slow down. It is a personal mission.
My dog has learned this about me, and because I have the kind of dysfunctional vision that I do have when I have it, our leading is more of a dialogue together than that I am led by her. She functions as much for me to tell me about altitude and depth, like stairs for example, or not directly walking into something, as anything else. Her biggest job of all is not to guide me around obstacles or stop me from walking across the street if a car Is coming, because out the distance I may actually pick up those kinds of things. But once they get close to my body space, that's a whole other story. And so in some ways Metukah's biggest job is to be there in relationship with me, with the constant contact of holding her leash or harness, to tell me what those foreign intellectual concepts called quote space and up unquote mean. These are things I do not feel very much. It is that ever-changing place of sensation that I feel from her, where she is standing, walking, moving, because of how she is next to me, whether moving or leaning or shifting or stepping or walking that is constantly giving me feedback: Therefore, that is about where it is that I must be now with her. That’s how we work a lot.
I have gone into a lot of detail for you, in the hope that it will show you that we can really dial-in exactly what we need, if we train our dog. Of course what I have found is that that training is hardly about the dog. It really was about me, how to be clear at communicating what it is that I wanted. And then how to be consistent about it. By comparison to that, for the dog, it seemed like it was almost nothing exclamation point. I mean, training Metukah, for any particular task, never took much more than asking her something six or eight times with a lot of love and respect, and the occasional treat. I think that she is brilliant. But this may be true for many dogs. My job was to not be an idiot when I was trying to train my dog!
I use that term with humor, and there is a story attached to it. At one point, when Metukah was still young, about half way through training, we heard that there was an AKC canine good citizen class In town. That’s not a service class, but it had some particular things about mixing it up while staying a tight team. So we thought, hey what the heck, this could be fun. Why not just throw this into the mix for an extra flavor of discipline working together in a crowd. Here’s an opportunity around town to go mix it up with the public for working as a contained team, in a saturated environment of good distractions.
We knew that they used a lot of noise and distraction in that class. So why not be unorthodox, have a little fun. When we got there, wow, there was a big room full of really crazy dogs. And some owners who, well, as far as getting with the program and training their dogs, we're being idiots. Their dogs had absolutely no idea what they were asking, and there was little consistency wiht them. It was a bit of a surprise to see how well we were already doing amidst all that noise. How on earth could these people's dog learn anything, when the owner did not seem to understand what direct and consistent meant at all? I think that that learning about the extremes of consistent or not consistent by being around others, was the most valuable experience that I took away from that class, except that our dogs teamwork beautifully in an environment with an amazing amount of chaos.
So that brings us back to point again, that we are all individuals, and we really can for our accommodations to fit us best, and perhaps, even elegantly. Some are served by no dog. Others, by a program dog. Still others (like me), by writing their own menu. Hope this helps.
-Peter
> On Feb 21, 2019, at 4:00 AM, nagdu-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
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> 1. Re: GDA (dchandler001 at carolina.rr.com)
> 2. Re: GDA (Lisa Belville)
> 3. Re: GDA (Jordan Gallacher)
> 4. stairs and guide dogs question (Madison Martin)
> 5. Re: stairs and guide dogs question (Yiska)
> 6. Re: stairs and guide dogs question (Jordan Gallacher)
> 7. Re: stairs and guide dogs question (Danielle Sykora)
> 8. Re: stairs and guide dogs question (Sandra Johnson)
> 9. Re: stairs and guide dogs question (d m gina)
> 10. Uber and Lift (Monse)
> 11. Re: stairs and guide dogs question (Afik Souffir)
> 12. Re: stairs and guide dogs question (Dan Weiner)
> 13. Re: stairs and guide dogs question (Afik Souffir)
> 14. Re: stairs and guide dogs question (Dan Weiner)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 14:47:16 +0000
> From: <dchandler001 at carolina.rr.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] GDA
> Message-ID: <20190220144716.67L6P.142829.root at dnvrco-web25>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Hi Jordan and others. I'm not familiar with GDA so can't comment on that particular school. When a school talks about handling skills, a lot of it has to do with arm strength so that one can give a firm correction to the dog. I don't know if this is the issue. My left arm isn't extremely strong so this has affected the matches I've received in the past.
> Deb and Tally
> ---- Julie Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Ummm...I've not been to a guide dog program, so it's quite possible I'm
>> missing something obvious here. Still, I thought the whole point to
>> attending a program was so that they could teach you the skills needed to
>> handle the dog?
>> If they said you didn't have sufficient orientation skills, I could wrap my
>> head around that. Or if they said you lived in a place where the dog
>> wouldn't be able to help much or you only went out once a month or
>> something. Not having good enough handling skills just makes no sense to
>> me.
>>
>> Julie
>> On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com
>> http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
>> also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall
>> <https://www.blindmicemegamall.com/bmm/shop/Directory_Departments?storeid=1916046>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dan Weiner via NAGDU
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2019 4:03 AM
>> To: Jordan Gallacher via NAGDU
>> Cc: Dan Weiner
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] GDA
>>
>> Hello, Jordan, if someone told me that I'd want specifics as to what
>> exactly the skills are I don't have, otherwise I wouldn't take it too
>> seriously except that they're trying to brush you off which isn't good,
>> see if you can pin them down.
>>
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> On 2/19/2019 6:50 PM, Jordan Gallacher via NAGDU wrote:
>>> I find it really odd that GDA is telling me that I do not have the >
>>> skills to handle a guide dog when field reps from a couple other >
>> schools have told me that I am a great handler. In fact, the last > two
>> field reps to tell me that were just plain surprised that I was > not
>> willing or wanting to send Belto back like others might have and >
>> probably would have done with the isues he had even at the > beginning.
>> My field rep from the school where I received September > was the same
>> and had tried at one point to talk me into retiring her, > and to this
>> day neither he or I can figure out what did it to get her > working
>> properly until she was attacked. GDF, GEB, and Southeastern > are the
>> other schools I am looking into at this point. > > Jordan > >
>> _______________________________________________ NAGDU mailing list >
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org >
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for
>> NAGDU: >
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 11:20:31 -0600
> From: Lisa Belville <missktlab1217 at frontier.com>
> To: Dan Weiner via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] GDA
> Message-ID: <256c6290-013b-ac1f-1889-c7816873a78a at frontier.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Yep, I agree with Dan in this respect.. I've found the staff at GDA to
> be open and generally better at communication as compared to other
> schools I've dealt with.? Don't be afraid to push for more specific
> reasoning.? it could be that this particular rep doesn't like the fact
> that you've had issues with dogs in the past and is automatically
> equating that with your handling skills.
>
>
> Lisa
>
>
> Lisa Belville
> missktlab1217 at frontier.com
>
> On 2/20/2019 4:03 AM, Dan Weiner via NAGDU wrote:
>> Hello, Jordan, if someone told me that I'd want specifics as to what
>> exactly the skills are I don't have, otherwise I wouldn't take it too
>> seriously except that they're trying to brush you off which isn't
>> good, see if you can pin them down.
>>
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> On 2/19/2019 6:50 PM, Jordan Gallacher via NAGDU wrote:
>>> I find it really odd that GDA is telling me that I do not have the? >
>>> skills to handle a guide dog when field reps from a couple other >
>> schools have told me that I am a great handler. In fact, the last >
>> two field reps to tell me that were just plain surprised that I was >
>> not willing or wanting to send Belto back like others might have and >
>> probably would have done with the isues he had even at the >
>> beginning. My field rep from the school where I received September >
>> was the same and had tried at one point to talk me into retiring her,
>>> and to this day neither he or I can figure out what did it to get
>> her > working properly until she was attacked. GDF, GEB, and
>> Southeastern > are the other schools I am looking into at this point.
>>>> Jordan > > _______________________________________________ NAGDU
>> mailing list > NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe,
>> change your list options or get your account info > for NAGDU: >
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>>>>
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 17:58:23 -0500
> From: "Jordan Gallacher" <jordangandbelto at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] GDA
> Message-ID: <00bc01d4c96f$c8a20080$59e60180$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> That is exactly what I am thinking they are treating the dogs being attacked and thinking bad handling.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Lisa Belville via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2019 12:21 PM
> To: Dan Weiner via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Lisa Belville <missktlab1217 at frontier.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] GDA
>
> Yep, I agree with Dan in this respect.. I've found the staff at GDA to be open and generally better at communication as compared to other schools I've dealt with. Don't be afraid to push for more specific reasoning. it could be that this particular rep doesn't like the fact that you've had issues with dogs in the past and is automatically equating that with your handling skills.
>
>
> Lisa
>
>
> Lisa Belville
> missktlab1217 at frontier.com
>
> On 2/20/2019 4:03 AM, Dan Weiner via NAGDU wrote:
>> Hello, Jordan, if someone told me that I'd want specifics as to what
>> exactly the skills are I don't have, otherwise I wouldn't take it too
>> seriously except that they're trying to brush you off which isn't
>> good, see if you can pin them down.
>>
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> On 2/19/2019 6:50 PM, Jordan Gallacher via NAGDU wrote:
>>> I find it really odd that GDA is telling me that I do not have the >
>>> skills to handle a guide dog when field reps from a couple other >
>> schools have told me that I am a great handler. In fact, the last >
>> two field reps to tell me that were just plain surprised that I was >
>> not willing or wanting to send Belto back like others might have and >
>> probably would have done with the isues he had even at the >
>> beginning. My field rep from the school where I received September >
>> was the same and had tried at one point to talk me into retiring her,
>>> and to this day neither he or I can figure out what did it to get
>> her > working properly until she was attacked. GDF, GEB, and
>> Southeastern > are the other schools I am looking into at this point.
>>>> Jordan > > _______________________________________________ NAGDU
>> mailing list > NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe,
>> change your list options or get your account info > for NAGDU: >
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dcwein%40dcwein.cnc
>> .net
>>>>
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>>
>
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 18:19:53 -0600
> From: "Madison Martin" <maddymartin at mymts.net>
> To: <friends at guidedogs.groups.io>, <chat at guidedogusersinc.org>,
> "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [NAGDU] stairs and guide dogs question
> Message-ID: <001401d4c97b$2bb96e00$832c4a00$@mymts.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi all, Whenever I go up/down stairs, I allways hang on to the railing. So,
> I was just wondering, do you guys do this when working your guides, or do
> you just hang onto them and let them guide you? Just curious that's all.
> Look forward to hearing back from you guys!! Thanks
>
> Madison
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 17:24:10 -0700
> From: Yiska <ichoosechrist2 at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] stairs and guide dogs question
> Message-ID:
> <CALaWVTFGAsfJ3uN4g8U18s4zxC7O5jCKHZGjbbY02p4_1UN-8Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> My dog naturally pointed out the railing so I do both railing and guiding.
> Yiska
>
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 17:21 Madison Martin via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all, Whenever I go up/down stairs, I allways hang on to the railing. So,
>> I was just wondering, do you guys do this when working your guides, or do
>> you just hang onto them and let them guide you? Just curious that's all.
>> Look forward to hearing back from you guys!! Thanks
>>
>> Madison
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ichoosechrist2%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 20:04:19 -0500
> From: "Jordan Gallacher" <jordangandbelto at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] stairs and guide dogs question
> Message-ID: <001901d4c981$607547d0$215fd770$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> September I would just let guide me. Belto I would use the railing and heel
> him since for some reason he did not like stairs.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Madison Martin via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2019 7:20 PM
> To: friends at guidedogs.groups.io; chat at guidedogusersinc.org; 'NAGDU Mailing
> List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Madison Martin <maddymartin at mymts.net>
> Subject: [NAGDU] stairs and guide dogs question
>
> Hi all, Whenever I go up/down stairs, I allways hang on to the railing. So,
> I was just wondering, do you guys do this when working your guides, or do
> you just hang onto them and let them guide you? Just curious that's all.
> Look forward to hearing back from you guys!! Thanks
>
> Madison
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jordangandbelto%40gmail.c
> om
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 20:09:49 -0500
> From: Danielle Sykora <dsykora29 at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] stairs and guide dogs question
> Message-ID: <098165EC-1389-4BFD-8001-BA3A83213757 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> I will either work the dog up/down the stairs and lightly run my hand along the railing, or not hold the railing at all. My dogs were trained to target railings so I have the option. It is also possible to heel the dog and hold the railing normally. I personally don?t like this method because the dog can?t alert me to obstacles like people standing or sitting on the stairs. You don?t really want to tightly hold the railing and work the dog simultaneously, because you can?t really move around an obstacle with the dog while still holding the railing.
>
> Danielle, Thai, and Jackie
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Feb 20, 2019, at 7:24 PM, Yiska via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> My dog naturally pointed out the railing so I do both railing and guiding.
>> Yiska
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 17:21 Madison Martin via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all, Whenever I go up/down stairs, I allways hang on to the railing. So,
>>> I was just wondering, do you guys do this when working your guides, or do
>>> you just hang onto them and let them guide you? Just curious that's all.
>>> Look forward to hearing back from you guys!! Thanks
>>>
>>> Madison
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ichoosechrist2%40gmail.com
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 20:28:55 -0500
> From: "Sandra Johnson" <SLJohnson25 at comcast.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] stairs and guide dogs question
> Message-ID: <73F4056FD770464AABD0C8DE8A269F35 at JOHNSON>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hello:
>
> I have balance issues so I always have my dogs take me to the railing. I
> hold tight to the railing and slowly go up or down the stairs. It is an
> individual preference. It comes down to what works best for each individual
> and each dog.
>
>
> Sandra and Eva
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Danielle Sykora via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2019 8:09 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Danielle Sykora
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] stairs and guide dogs question
>
> I will either work the dog up/down the stairs and lightly run my hand along
> the railing, or not hold the railing at all. My dogs were trained to target
> railings so I have the option. It is also possible to heel the dog and hold
> the railing normally. I personally don?t like this method because the dog
> can?t alert me to obstacles like people standing or sitting on the stairs.
> You don?t really want to tightly hold the railing and work the dog
> simultaneously, because you can?t really move around an obstacle with the
> dog while still holding the railing.
>
> Danielle, Thai, and Jackie
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Feb 20, 2019, at 7:24 PM, Yiska via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> My dog naturally pointed out the railing so I do both railing and guiding.
>> Yiska
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 17:21 Madison Martin via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all, Whenever I go up/down stairs, I allways hang on to the railing.
>>> So,
>>> I was just wondering, do you guys do this when working your guides, or do
>>> you just hang onto them and let them guide you? Just curious that's all.
>>> Look forward to hearing back from you guys!! Thanks
>>>
>>> Madison
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ichoosechrist2%40gmail.com
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sljohnson25%40comcast.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 20:58:17 -0500
> From: d m gina <dmgina at mysero.net>
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] stairs and guide dogs question
> Message-ID: <5cc1126c.0e86.44a4.86ef.b3df5a1e53b7 at samobile.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"
>
> Original Many schools train the dog to find the rail.
> I trained my dog.
> We work on this allot.
> I even have her find the rail to the ramp.
> So she keeps in practice.
> It is a balance problem for me, works out well doing it this way.
> Wishing you the best.
>
> message:
>> Hi all, Whenever I go up/down stairs, I allways hang on to the railing. So,
>> I was just wondering, do you guys do this when working your guides, or do
>> you just hang onto them and let them guide you? Just curious that's all.
>> Look forward to hearing back from you guys!! Thanks
>
>> Madison
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dmgina%40mysero.net
>
> --
> --Dar
> skype: dmgina23
> FB: dmgina
> www.twitter.com/dmgina
> every saint has a past
> every sinner has a future
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 21:38:35 -0600
> From: "Monse" <monse_v at aol.com.mx>
> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Uber and Lift
> Message-ID: <57e001d4c996$ee447c10$cacd7430$@aol.com.mx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hello all.
>
> In your opinion, what is or would be the best strategy to fight against
> discrimination in transportation services such as uber, lift, probably buss
> drivers that refuse to pick you up with your dog or those who just don't
> stop, among others?
>
> Here in my country Mexico there are a few guide dog users, normally the same
> persons, who usually livestream to facebook to provide evidence of the
> discrimination guide dog users face each time taxi drivers refuse to take
> them so that their video goes viral and drivers get criticized by social
> network users and eventually fired. They usually do the same thing when have
> access denials even though they're allowed access in the end.
>
> I think users should do their part as well and in case of using taxis, would
> be helpful to carry mat and brush so that drivers don't have the doggy fur
> excuse and feel comfortable.
>
> Honestly my dog and I don't use taxis often partly because we live in the
> city and have many public transportation options, and partly because I like
> to walk and make my dog practice and reinforce his training, but we did use
> them when I was training him and we had just one service denial for the fur
> reason. After that I decided to carry mat and brush and each time that
> drivers had that excuse, I would give them the tools and they changed their
> actitud immediately, put the mat in their car and voila.
>
> What have worked for you?
>
>
>
> ---
> El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electr?nico en busca de virus.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2019 08:40:49 +0200
> From: "Afik Souffir" <afik.sofir at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] stairs and guide dogs question
> Message-ID: <00f901d4c9b0$631cdcd0$29569670$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1255"
>
>
>
> Hello all.
> My name is Afik souffir from Israel. I wrote to here one time and didn't get
> any response, except one.
> I'm 20 years old, and I have cp in my left hand.
> I want to know if guide dog can go in the right side? Is there an option to
> train the dog to walk on the right side?
>
> I want to hear, also the exprince to be with a guide dog.
>
> Afik.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Yiska via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 2:24 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users?
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Yiska? <ichoosechrist2 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] stairs and guide dogs question
>
> My dog naturally pointed out the railing so I do both railing and guiding.
> Yiska
>
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 17:21 Madison Martin via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all, Whenever I go up/down stairs, I allways hang on to the
>> railing. So, I was just wondering, do you guys do this when working
>> your guides, or do you just hang onto them and let them guide you? Just
> curious that's all.
>> Look forward to hearing back from you guys!! Thanks
>>
>> Madison
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ichoosechrist2%40gm
>> ail.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/afik.sofir%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2019 04:12:11 -0500
> From: Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
> To: Afik Souffir via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] stairs and guide dogs question
> Message-ID: <4efb134a-4985-7857-4f5c-80b3cf87e70d at dcwein.cnc.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1255; format=flowed
>
> Hello, Afik, I think maybe I spoke to you once on skype, not sure.
>
> Well I have heard of guide dogs being trained to walk on the right, at
> least one of the schools here does this, and I? know the others will if
> necessary,? any of that type of adaptations is called "special needs"
> here and several training facilities do it.I know of course, nothing
> about what the Israeli programs do. I've also heard of people with CP?
> using guide dogs and the school?? adapts? the harness? in some way so
> that they could use it with their? weaker hand, So yes I've heard of it
> and I think you would have to mention it to your training organization
> or at least mention that you have a problem with your left hand. A Also,
> I'm not sure what you'd like to know about having a guide dog, such a
> vast question but I for one am glad to tell you anything you want to
> know, right to us publicly here, or to me privately:
> dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net. or we could use some social media like whats app,
> skype or messenger, up to you.
>
>
> Of course remember one thing, we guide dog users are a little like
> drunks in a bar--smile we have very strong opinions and each one of us
> seems to think that he/she is right, and so on--smile. so take all the
> opinions and come to your own conclusion and hopefully you'll get your
> own doggie at some point and then you can be the one who tells us things.
>
>
> I'm Dan from Florida, age forty-nine, can't believe it--lol, I've had
> four guide dogs..I'm totally blind and I am deaf in the left ear,
> fortunately the right ear does a good job.
>
>
> Yours most sincerely,
>
> Dan
>
>
> On 2/21/2019 1:40 AM, Afik Souffir via NAGDU wrote:
>>
>> Hello all.
>> My name is Afik souffir from Israel. I wrote to here one time and didn't get
>> any response, except one.
>> I'm 20 years old, and I have cp in my left hand.
>> I want to know if guide dog can go in the right side? Is there an option to
>> train the dog to walk on the right side?
>>
>> I want to hear, also the exprince to be with a guide dog.
>>
>> Afik.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Yiska via NAGDU
>> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 2:24 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users?
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Yiska? <ichoosechrist2 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] stairs and guide dogs question
>>
>> My dog naturally pointed out the railing so I do both railing and guiding.
>> Yiska
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 17:21 Madison Martin via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all, Whenever I go up/down stairs, I allways hang on to the
>>> railing. So, I was just wondering, do you guys do this when working
>>> your guides, or do you just hang onto them and let them guide you? Just
>> curious that's all.
>>> Look forward to hearing back from you guys!! Thanks
>>>
>>> Madison
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ichoosechrist2%40gm
>>> ail.com
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/afik.sofir%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dcwein%40dcwein.cnc.net
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2019 11:56:13 +0200
> From: "Afik Souffir" <afik.sofir at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] stairs and guide dogs question
> Message-ID: <016f01d4c9cb$aeb2e250$0c18a6f0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1255"
>
>
> Hello Dan and all,
> Here its 11:51 AM so, I'm sorry if I wake anyone with this message smile.
> My traning organization manager know about my problem, with the left hand.
> About guide dogs expirences -sorry for the spelling errors,- I want to know
> what are the deffrences between to walk with a cane, and to walk with a
> guide dog.
> For myself, I think that guide dog will let me be more indipandent with the
> mobility.
>
> Thanks for any response,
> Afik.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Dan Weiner via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 11:12 AM
> To: Afik Souffir via NAGDU? <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Dan Weiner? <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] stairs and guide dogs question
>
> Hello, Afik, I think maybe I spoke to you once on skype, not sure.
>
> Well I have heard of guide dogs being trained to walk on the right, at least
> one of the schools here does this, and I? know the others will if
> necessary,? any of that type of adaptations is called "special needs"
> here and several training facilities do it.I know of course, nothing about
> what the Israeli programs do. I've also heard of people with CP using guide
> dogs and the school?? adapts? the harness? in some way so that they could
> use it with their? weaker hand, So yes I've heard of it and I think you
> would have to mention it to your training organization or at least mention
> that you have a problem with your left hand. A Also, I'm not sure what you'd
> like to know about having a guide dog, such a vast question but I for one am
> glad to tell you anything you want to know, right to us publicly here, or to
> me privately:
> dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net. or we could use some social media like whats app,
> skype or messenger, up to you.
>
>
> Of course remember one thing, we guide dog users are a little like drunks in
> a bar--smile we have very strong opinions and each one of us seems to think
> that he/she is right, and so on--smile. so take all the opinions and come to
> your own conclusion and hopefully you'll get your own doggie at some point
> and then you can be the one who tells us things.
>
>
> I'm Dan from Florida, age forty-nine, can't believe it--lol, I've had four
> guide dogs..I'm totally blind and I am deaf in the left ear, fortunately the
> right ear does a good job.
>
>
> Yours most sincerely,
>
> Dan
>
>
> On 2/21/2019 1:40 AM, Afik Souffir via NAGDU wrote:
>>
>> Hello all.
>> My name is Afik souffir from Israel. I wrote to here one time and
>> didn't get any response, except one.
>> I'm 20 years old, and I have cp in my left hand.
>> I want to know if guide dog can go in the right side? Is there an
>> option to train the dog to walk on the right side?
>>
>> I want to hear, also the exprince to be with a guide dog.
>>
>> Afik.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Yiska via NAGDU
>> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 2:24 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users?
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Yiska? <ichoosechrist2 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] stairs and guide dogs question
>>
>> My dog naturally pointed out the railing so I do both railing and guiding.
>> Yiska
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 17:21 Madison Martin via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all, Whenever I go up/down stairs, I allways hang on to the
>>> railing. So, I was just wondering, do you guys do this when working
>>> your guides, or do you just hang onto them and let them guide you?
>>> Just
>> curious that's all.
>>> Look forward to hearing back from you guys!! Thanks
>>>
>>> Madison
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ichoosechrist2%40g
>>> m
>>> ail.com
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/afik.sofir%40gmail.
>> com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dcwein%40dcwein.cnc
>> .net
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/afik.sofir%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2019 05:28:20 -0500
> From: Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
> To: Afik Souffir via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] stairs and guide dogs question
> Message-ID: <a0919f97-d93c-31c1-b762-859f61a9aab9 at dcwein.cnc.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1255; format=flowed
>
> Well here goes my take anyway. I was never as independent traveler with
> a cane as with a guide dog. I know this flies in the face of the modern
> way of thinking? or what I might call the "party line" that you must be
> great at O and m with a cane before you consider a dog, or that it's
> just a difference in travel method, Yes, I of course know, you have to
> know something about where to go and how to get there, no question. But
> I worked hard on the cane ...however my hearing, deafness on the left
> side caused me to do all sorts of things like veer, and I couldn't
> follow the direction of sound, and I became more and more hesitant? to
> cross streets.? I always loved dogs and felt I should try it, with the
> dog and the training came motivation to get out there, I figured out
> really fast when I got home from training that i didn't really
> understand my home area very well,a nd I had to spend a few works
> halling butt to learn going out on walks with friends or family, I
> finally sort of trained them to tell me what I needed otto learn and
> then I practiced and got several good routes dow, I certainly moved
> faster, rarely ver veered on street crossings, and on the occasion that
> I didn't hear a car my dog would do his best to keep me safe or disobey
> the command. I did found that I traveled with a dog in many places alone
> that I hadn't done before with a cane. Anyway of course specifically the
> dog will get you around obstacles following your commands for a general
> line of travel. A dog can smoothly do this sometimes so skillfully that
> you don't even know there was an obstacle. A dog will stop for changes
> of surface and curbs, waiting for you to tell him or her what to do.?
> Dogs have Ben trained ot, or can learn to find many objects or
> destinations such as doors, stairs, inside (the entrance to somewhere(
> outside (the exit).? I would say that generally your walking witill be
> faster and smoother with a dog, though of course I do know cane users
> who'll give me a run for my money as we say--smile.? Also dogs an take
> initiative, I know that during training the first time, 1994 they kept
> criticizing me for letting my dog find things or a path because he was
> very very smart, but it made me so happy that I could walk fast and tall
> and know I was going the right way even if my orientation failed me for
> a moment. What I'd say is learning what you can trust your dog to do,
> and what you need to be in charge of is what ttakes the longest. You
> still will have to have the motivation, guts, and initiative to get out
> there and plan where you want to go and how to get there. but if you're
> motivated and willing to get out there and do things, make mistakes
> sometimes but learn,a nd keep at it, I think you'd do very well. I
> really don't know if that was a bunch of platitudes or if it really
> helped, maybe think of some questions that are more specific or based on
> what I have said?
>
> Sio basically, the cane's object is to sweep in front of you, to clear a
> space for the next step. A dog will guide you on a path of your choosing
> and though I'll admit--smile sometimes my dogs have found other paths I
> didn't know about--- that's another story.
>
>
> by the way, you can get lost with sa dog, there are two brains, you and
> the dog, working at the same time, and that can lead to all sorts of
> things--smile
>
>
> Even after 24 years no wait 25 years of using a dog the thrill of taking
> a nice fast walk knowing I don't have to get ensnared by alal the
> obstacles is just a wonderful feeling, and besides as I say I love dogs
> more than I can say.
>
> Disadvantages; well you have to take car e of a dog, you don't folkdd it
> or put it in a corner.? You have to deal with people, and though I am a
> people person I must admit sometimes people can be rather annoying or
> just make you wonder what happened in the scheme of evolution--smile
>
> And there is the emotional cost, we love our dogs and frankly, hwhen
> they get sick or die it can be devestatiing at least for me.
>
>
> One thing I could never do in the pre dog days was walk independently
> while following someone. Most of the guide dog programs train the dog
> also for the follow command where you can tell the dog to follow a
> designated person, this was invaluable to me in quite a few
> environments, allowing me to keep safe and independent while being with
> someone else.
>
>
> Also thoughmy dogs have allowed me travel to all sorts of places there
> ar limits, when I first got a dog I ws pretty idealistic and pictureed
> myself going everywhere, including to a restaurant I liked that would
> have involved crossing two state highways, sorry, that sididn't work
> out, dog or no dog--smile. the traffic conditions were too chaotic...
>
>
> You will know what you can do or not based on your training, talk with
> your trainers and other handlers, O and M, and just your trial and
> error, so don't worry about that...
>
> But I mean look when I think of it I dodo a lot of walking with my dogs
> in the local area and I've lived in different places for study and work
> and even in different countries,it's really a wonderful thing.
>
> Now also, remember on this list you will mostly I assuem get people who
> like me, adore using a guide dog,f or those who don't like it--smile
> don't know whom I'd recommend you to but though I try to be balanced I'm
> sure my enthusiasm comes through.
>
> also at least for me, the cane takes tremendous concentration I can't
> walk a straight line to save my life even when I'm sober and to do so I
> must concentrate to a very high degree, I tend to be a lot straighter
> with a dog because he's taught to guide in a straight line of
> travel...aviding obstacles and then coming back to the line of travel we
> were on,.
>
>
> Anyway I wish you a wonderful early afternoon.
>
>
> I'm sure that's more than enough for now.
>
>
> I'm thinking later when I'm awake I'll describe some walks I take with
> my dog so you can seem ore of the mechanics of it, but now I'm not
> mentally clear-headed enough--lol
>
>
> More coffee is required.
>
>
>
> ?.
>
> On 2/21/2019 4:56 AM, Afik Souffir via NAGDU wrote:
>> Hello Dan and all,
>> Here its 11:51 AM so, I'm sorry if I wake anyone with this message smile.
>> My traning organization manager know about my problem, with the left hand.
>> About guide dogs expirences -sorry for the spelling errors,- I want to know
>> what are the deffrences between to walk with a cane, and to walk with a
>> guide dog.
>> For myself, I think that guide dog will let me be more indipandent with the
>> mobility.
>>
>> Thanks for any response,
>> Afik.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Dan Weiner via NAGDU
>> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 11:12 AM
>> To: Afik Souffir via NAGDU? <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Dan Weiner? <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] stairs and guide dogs question
>>
>> Hello, Afik, I think maybe I spoke to you once on skype, not sure.
>>
>> Well I have heard of guide dogs being trained to walk on the right, at least
>> one of the schools here does this, and I? know the others will if
>> necessary,? any of that type of adaptations is called "special needs"
>> here and several training facilities do it.I know of course, nothing about
>> what the Israeli programs do. I've also heard of people with CP using guide
>> dogs and the school?? adapts? the harness? in some way so that they could
>> use it with their? weaker hand, So yes I've heard of it and I think you
>> would have to mention it to your training organization or at least mention
>> that you have a problem with your left hand. A Also, I'm not sure what you'd
>> like to know about having a guide dog, such a vast question but I for one am
>> glad to tell you anything you want to know, right to us publicly here, or to
>> me privately:
>> dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net. or we could use some social media like whats app,
>> skype or messenger, up to you.
>>
>>
>> Of course remember one thing, we guide dog users are a little like drunks in
>> a bar--smile we have very strong opinions and each one of us seems to think
>> that he/she is right, and so on--smile. so take all the opinions and come to
>> your own conclusion and hopefully you'll get your own doggie at some point
>> and then you can be the one who tells us things.
>>
>>
>> I'm Dan from Florida, age forty-nine, can't believe it--lol, I've had four
>> guide dogs..I'm totally blind and I am deaf in the left ear, fortunately the
>> right ear does a good job.
>>
>>
>> Yours most sincerely,
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>> On 2/21/2019 1:40 AM, Afik Souffir via NAGDU wrote:
>>> Hello all.
>>> My name is Afik souffir from Israel. I wrote to here one time and
>>> didn't get any response, except one.
>>> I'm 20 years old, and I have cp in my left hand.
>>> I want to know if guide dog can go in the right side? Is there an
>>> option to train the dog to walk on the right side?
>>>
>>> I want to hear, also the exprince to be with a guide dog.
>>>
>>> Afik.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Yiska via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 2:24 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users?
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Yiska? <ichoosechrist2 at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] stairs and guide dogs question
>>>
>>> My dog naturally pointed out the railing so I do both railing and guiding.
>>> Yiska
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 17:21 Madison Martin via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all, Whenever I go up/down stairs, I allways hang on to the
>>>> railing. So, I was just wondering, do you guys do this when working
>>>> your guides, or do you just hang onto them and let them guide you?
>>>> Just
>>> curious that's all.
>>>> Look forward to hearing back from you guys!! Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Madison
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ichoosechrist2%40g
>>>> m
>>>> ail.com
>>>>
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>>>
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