[NAGDU] King of the Creepers

Wed May 22 21:18:25 UTC 2019

hello:

interesting topic.  my experience with Gonzo the crazy poodle is that when I ask him to find something, like an elevator, I've learned that he does a half circle fly by of the object. then I have to ask for the more specific. Show me thing and then he goes to it.  very weird. it took a year to figure out my last dog showed me things at his left shoulder.

not the same as slowing down but something in his poodle mind thinks that doing a fly by is doing what he has been asked.  I've decided if every dog has a shape, gonzo's is a circle. he's always doing circles. when getting ready to go outside he does laps through the living room, dining. room, kitchen to the door and again and again and now I'm standing up with my shoes on and. the pace increases. probably don't even need to take him for walks, just pretend to and he'll exercise himself. :)

gary

On May 22, 2019 11:32:45 AM PDT, Danielle Sykora via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>Tracy,
>
>I definitely was not trying to talk about you or anyone else
>specifically in my previous messages. I was just trying to generally
>explain some of the appropriate situations in which to use treats to
>optimize performance vs. situations where handlers tend to use them
>incorrectly as a crutch, giving food rewards a bad reputation.
>
>Creeping up to targets or obstacles is often associated with a lack of
>confidence. Both of my dogs' favorite part of guiding is targeting.
>however, Jackie creeps up to down curbs or obstacles every once in a
>while for example if she didn't clear the obstacle correctly the last
>time, or got a correction for taking one step too far into the street.
>Thai would creep up to a few specific doors because people would often
>open them really quickly without paying attention and hit him or me.
>
>I wouldn't expect a "city dog" to struggle with confidence though
>unless there was a particular negative experience, so it might be a
>different reason.
>
>The clicker is usually a great tool for targeting and confidence
>building, because it provides a high rate of reinforcement, precise
>clarity on the behavior, and gives the dog a sense of control without
>the possibility of being corrected for making a mistake. No tool is
>ever going to work for every dog in every situation though. If the
>clicker does not provide lasting results, then it probably isn't the
>right tool. I don't necessarily think it would be a bad thing to
>provide the occasional food reward for targeting if the dog clearly
>isn't particularly enjoying it. Sometimes you need to do what
>motivates a particular dog in a particular situation. Now if he will
>*only* target if you have treats on you, that is an issue.
>
>I really hope you are able to get some helpful suggestions during
>follow up. I would definitely be interested to know if you find a
>solution.
>
>Danielle, Thai, and Jackie
>
>On 5/22/19, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hi Kerri.
>> I knew I wasn't alone, but it's nice to have confirmation.
>> It's good you know the cause of your girl's creeping.  Might make it
>easier
>> to fix.
>> I'm guessing Krokus creeps because he's a bit lazy.  He wants me to
>drop
>> the
>> harness and heel him.  He wants me to do the work.  I try to resist,
>but
>> sometimes I just can't deal with the creeping.  Self-defeating, I
>know.
>>
>> Too bad the king can't meet the queen!  He loves playing with
>shepherds.
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shawn and
>Kerri
>> Sprecher via NAGDU
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 1:21 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Shawn and Kerri Sprecher; Tracy Carcione
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] King of the Creepers
>>
>> Hello Tracy and list,
>> Thank you for writing this message, it was exactly what I needed to
>> hear. I am going through the exact same thing; Iris, my German
>> Shepherd, is one of the smartest and most intelligent guides I have
>> ever had, and in class she showed that she would definitely stop at
>> the down curb or walk right up to a door. Well, there was an uneven
>> spot in one of the routes we took during training, and I didn't get
>> hurt thankfully, but I did stumble and have to catch myself with my
>> other foot, which made her yelp. She's very sensitive to me and I
>have
>> never had a dog yelp when I stumbled or fell due to them not slowing
>> down enough. I actually thought I'd stepped on her but the instructo
>> said that my foot was nowhere near close enough to her foot to elicit
>> a yelp like that, so he said the only thing it probably could be is
>> that she feels a great deal of responsibility for me, and she was
>> showing concern for me. The instructor said that he's seen several
>> other shepherds do the same thing.
>> Well, after that stumble, now she is almost too careful, wanting to
>> avoid down curbs or stairs as much as she possibly can, and  I have
>> thought about starting click and treat as well, because she seemed to
>> respond well to it in class with finding things and such, so I know
>> she's really good at clicker activities.
>> Anyway, I just wanted you to know that I have the queen of creepers
>to
>> mmatch the king of creepers. smile
>> I'll be interested to know how this goes, if you're ok informing us
>> about the outcome or any techniques they're having you try.
>> Talk soon,
>> Kerri
>>
>> On 5/22/19, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Danielle seemed to be wondering why I'd need to carry treats in the
>>> office
>>> anyway, so I may as well say.  Krokus is the King of the Creepers. 
>He
>>> often
>>> stops 5 or 6 feet short of where I want to go, especially in the
>office.
>> I
>>> tried getting really happy when we arrive, and I tried correcting
>him,
>>> but
>>> he still stops short and I either have to drop the harness and heel
>him
>>> or
>>> get him to creep slowly up to where I want to go.  Really annoying.
>>>
>>> I asked my school for advice, and they said click-and-treat, which I
>did.
>>> But, once the king sees he's not getting a treat this time, he goes
>back
>> to
>>> creeping.  So I've been randomly treating, which somewhat fixes the
>>> problem,
>>> though I suspect he's smart enough to know when I have treats with
>me and
>>> when I don't.  Rather a pain.  I don't want to keep carrying treats,
>and
>>> I
>>> don't want to stop short, either.  I'm getting some follow-up with
>>> another
>>> issue soon, so I'll ask about this, too.  I just bet there's a note
>on my
>>> file at the school that says "will put up with any amount of crap,
>so
>>> give
>>> her the problem child".
>>>
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>>
>>>
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