[NAGDU] [GuideDogs] applying for a guide dog

Sun Sep 1 21:10:54 UTC 2019

I agree with what folks are saying. I also want to point out that because you are currently going sighted guide mostly everywhere, you also have the other person to think about.  It is good now, to get folks used to you walking independently.
Frequently sighted folks get nervous when this happens and try and "help" the blind person by grabbing them, or trying to "guide" them, or giving too much verbal information.  Its better for folks to see how you navigate independently and that includes problem solving your way out of situations.  Because when you have a dog, there will be 3 beings in this equation, and it is hard to work, and give direction to, a dog while also trying to educate the sighted person you are with about the right kind of, and amount of help you need.  It would be great to practice these skills and let your sighted guides practice taking that step back before the dog comes into the picture.
Just my .02

Rox'E and the Kitchen Bitches
Soleil, Rowan, Phoenix
pawpower4me at gmail.com

> On Sep 1, 2019, at 2:32 PM, margo Downey via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> It would be good for you to use the cane at other times as well.
> 
> Margo and Isis
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2019 1:50 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: David Andrews
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] [GuideDogs] applying for a guide dog
> 
> You said "I always do sighted guide except for O&M."  If you don't 
> practice with the cane you will never be any good.  You may say, it 
> doesn't matter since I intend to get a dog. I think the better you 
> are with a cane -- the better you w2ill be with a dog!
> 
> Dave
> 
> At 06:18 PM 8/29/2019, you wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> Thank you for your thoughts, I really appreaciate it.
>> I just wanted to clarify some things.
>> I'm waiting for my instructor to tell me that I'm ready for a guide dog, I
>> don't want to apply and then find out that I'm not ready for a guide dog.
>> My instructor wasn't doing an assessment, we've been having regular
> lessons
>> together for a while. I always do sighted guide except of course during
> O&M
>> lessons of course. I'm honestly fine with my pace, it's my instructor who
>> wants me to walk faster. I don't know how long my cane is; it's
> comfortable
>> for me to use though. I understand the O&M concepts, I've been getting
>> training for years. The 3 routes thing is from GDF not from my instructor.
>> Mike, I've done tones and tones of research to decide on GDF, and I'm not
>> going to apply to other schools just to apply to other schools. GDF is the
>> only one that appeals to me.  Hope this helps
>> Madison
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: GuideDogs at yahoogroups.com [mailto:GuideDogs at yahoogroups.com]
>> Sent: August-29-19 5:40 PM
>> To: GuideDogs at yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: RE: [GuideDogs] applying for a guide dog
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The cane is their bread and butter.
>> 
>> I think it is good to have both skills. However, I am a really bad cane
>> traveler.
>> 
>> Give me a dog any day!
>> 
>> Truie
>> 
>> From: GuideDogs at yahoogroups.com [mailto:GuideDogs at yahoogroups.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 5:49 PM
>> To: GuideDogs at yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: RE: [GuideDogs] applying for a guide dog
>> 
>> Hi Madison, Your instructor is, frankly, way off. First, people walk all
>> different speeds with their dogs-some extremely slow, some extremely fast
>> and most of us somewhere in between. Further more, a dog is not limited to
>> only one speed. Sometimes, I fly around with my dogs, almost at a fast jog
>> or slow run; sometimes, we walk like the old lady that I sometimes am. It
>> sounds like when you walk with a sighted person, you feel more confident
> vs.
>> when you walk by yourself. Therefore, it stands to reason that you have
> the
>> ability to walk faster, and you simply would do that once you trust your
> dog
>> and feel confident he/she can guide you as well, probably better, than
> these
>> sighted guides. Nevertheless, if you always walked at a very slow speed,
> or
>> a very fast one, dogs also walk at different speeds. My Radar and Chelsea
>> had two speeds: extremely fast or asleep. <LOL> I was young, energetic and
> a
>> little crazy and I flew right along with them.
>> 
>> Noah and Angel walked at a more reasonable pace and were usually steady,
> but
>> happy to speed up a bit if we needed too or slow down.
>> 
>> Cheddar loves to fly but is disciplined enough that he can slow it down
> when
>> need be.
>> 
>> As for applying to GDF or any other school, what are you waiting for?
>> You've been talking about this for several years now. You're not going to
> be
>> accepted at GDF or any other school the day your application hits their
>> desk-it takes time, perhaps another year or more to get into a school. I
>> would think you'd have more than enough time given that time-frame to
>> complete the three routes your mobility instructor deems to be so
> important.
>> 
>> Furthermore, your instructor is, obviously, pretty darn ignorant about
> what
>> a dog guide can do and so the school will be a better source of when you
> are
>> "ready" to begin guide dog work. Applicants have been told that they need
>> more work, to become more confident-whatever, and you'd not be the first
> or
>> last for that if, indeed, it happened.
>> 
>> It seems to me it's time to get serious about whether you really, really
>> want a dog guide or not. If not, that's fine; however, just make that
>> decision without all these excuses and delays.
>> 
>> Maybe spending a little more time with people who have and work dogs would
>> be helpful and a lot less time listening to some mobility instructor who,
>> apparently, slept right through the education, experience and training
> about
>> guide dogs. <sigh>
>> 
>> Historicly, and apparently still, O&M instructors have not been overly
>> enthusiastic about dog guide work. They learned the cane, seem to prefer
> the
>> cane and seem to endorse the cane over a dog guide. I'm not sure why this
> is
>> as they do receive dog guide instruction and education, and there is no
>> reason in the world an O&M can not work with a student using a dog but,
> for
>> whatever reason, this mentality remains.
>> 
>> Jessie L. Rayl, Ed.D., LPC
>> 
>> <mailto:Jrayl114 at comcast.net> Jrayl114 at comcast.net
>> 
>> FB: Eaglewings10
>> 
>> From: GuideDogs at yahoogroups.com [mailto:GuideDogs at yahoogroups.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 5:53 AM
>> To: GuideDogs at yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [GuideDogs] applying for a guide dog
>> 
>> Hi Madison,
>> Just what do you think a guide dog is, if not a sighted guide?
>> The word guide should give you a clue.
>> 
>> Really, this is ridiculous, and I have to agree with David, perhaps your
>> continuing mobility training is doing nothing but fattening the
> instructor's
>> 
>> wallet.
>> 
>> Oh yes, it may be getting you out of the house and allowing you to become
>> familiar with the streets in your neighborhood, but you are learning those
>> routs with a cane, not a dog.
>> With a cane you tend to rely on land marks, things your cane hits along
> the
>> way.
>> A dog is going to take you around and past those landmarks treating them
> as
>> obstacles to be avoided.
>> 
>> As for your walking speed:
>> In my last class, I was first given a little female that I had to push
> down
>> the sidewalk, and even once drag across the street because she was just
> too
>> darn slow.
>> When the senior trainer asked me what I thought of her, my response was,
>> "She's a good dog, just not the right one for me."
>> I was allowed to do what I called test drive two other dogs.
>> The first one was faster than the female but when urged to get along and
>> move faster, the only thing that sped up was his tail wagging.
>> He was in permanent meander down the street mode.
>> When I told Baron "Forward" he picked right up, and I knew I was going for
> a
>> 
>> walk.
>> Halfway down the first block I said to the trainer, "Now there's the pull
> I
>> was looking for."
>> Not only was his pull just right, but I could feel every move he made as
> he
>> avoided things along the rout.
>> 
>> Some dogs walk faster than do others, just like people, and any school
> worth
>> 
>> their salt knows that and trains each dog accordingly.
>> 
>> Maybe you should spend more time walking with your instructor as the guide
>> instead of getting used to what's around you with a cane.
>> 
>> And what's this learning three routs about?
>> 
>> I'm just wondering about this entire set-up someone talked you into.
>> 
>> PJ.
>> 
>> ----Original Message-----
>> From: 'Madison Martin' maddymartin at mymts.net [GuideDogs]
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 6:59 PM
>> To: friends at guidedogs.groups.io ; chat at guidedogusersinc.org ;
>> GuideDogs at yahoogroups.com ; 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association
> of
>> 
>> Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: [GuideDogs] applying for a guide dog
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> I just wanted to clearify something. I'm not actually currently applying
> to
>> GDF because I have to work more on my O&M before I can apply. That's what
> my
>> O&M instructor told me. I need to work mainly on my confidence and my
> pace,
>> I'm a slow walker (except when I'm walking sighted guide). My instructor
>> told me that my slow pace won't work with a guide dog. However, when my
>> instructor tells me that I'm ready (and once I have 3 routes) then I'm
>> deffenetly applying to GDF. I just thought that I should clearify things,
> in
>> case anyone thought that I am actually currently going through GDFs
>> application process.
>> Madison
> 
> 
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