[NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting serious

Sat Jan 15 18:43:37 UTC 2022

Alysha,

I hear you on this. I am seriously debating whether I want another dog
after Ari retires or not.  With the stuff with airlines, rideshares, taxis,
vicious dogs being brought out in public by owners who dont give a damn
about the safety of the public.

I refuse to jump through hoops and fight forever for the things non
disabled have access to with no problem or a thought. I will not put up
with disrespectful behavior towards me. I'm getting too old for that. I
have fought for things all my life and now I'm tired. I just want to live
my life in peace with as few hassles as possible. I am respectful of others
except for people who let their unruly pets snarl and try to attack my dog
on the sidewalks, in stores. I have learned that there are people who
refuse to educated such as Uber drivers and the company itself. I am happy
to educate someone sincerely wants to learn. But you cant fix stupid.

Lyn and Aristotle

On Sat, Jan 15, 2022, 10:22 AM Alysha Hiller via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:

> I also 100% agree with what has been said. I often don't bring my dog on
> trips when I take Uber and Lyft because I just don't want to deal with the
> potential for denials. Is this letting the law breakers win? Yes it is. But
> I need to do my best to make sure I can get where I need to go on time. I
> would be even more reluctant to roll the dice on an Uber trip when
> traveling with my children. Issues like these and all the problems with the
> airlines are also a factor in my decision not to apply for a successor dog
> once my current guide retires. I love working a dog and find my dog very
> helpful for mobility, but there comes a point when the access denials and
> battles start to negate some of the positives of having a guide dog. I
> don't know what the answer is, but clearly more work needs to be done.
>
> Best,
> Alysha
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Diane Graves via NAGDU
> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2022 12:09 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: rdgraves2007 at gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting serious
>
> I agree with the foregoing comments completely.
>
> , I am on my first dog. We'Ve been together for almost 5 years now and we
> hopefully have several good working years left. However, one of the biggest
> considerations that come into play  when I think about whether or not there
> will be a second dog is the situation with these Uber and Lyft drivers and
> having to fight with them every time I wan to get from point A to point B.
>
> I don't live in a neighborhood that is conducive to bus travel, so
> sometimes these services are our only option. Do I really want to spend so
> much time and energy wondering whether I'll get denied a ride to my
> destination or wondering whether I'll get home once I get there because of
> these people who are allowed to break the law so blatantly. Is it worth the
> battle?
>
> Something really does need to be done. It does absolutely no good to have
> a policy or a settlement agreement on paper if you aren't going to enforce
> it.
>
> Diane Graves
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2022 10:59 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting serious
>
> Hi all,
>
> I have to agree with Lynn and Mike here. It's about time that we take
> drastic action against Uber and Lyft. I am generally not one to complain
> about what an organization does not do when I am not helping to solve the
> problem, but it seems as though dog denials are increasing and our response
> to them as an organization is falling off.
>
> I, too have been denied a ride and then received a message that the driver
> canceled because I was supposedly not wearing a mask. Not true, obviously.
> I believe this happened to me twice, once right after the start of the
> pandemic, and once last summer. My last Uber denial, one of the last trips
> I took with my now retired guide, was so bad. The driver told me to my face
> that he would not take me, that he did not care what happened to him, and
> that he did not care I would be 15 minutes late for class. (This denial was
> the second one I had experienced that morning.) I was 8 months pregnant and
> very uncomfortable and emotional. I was not mean, but I did cry while
> trying to explain the law to him. That particular denial got me thinking
> about all kinds of dangerous situations. What if it had been hot outside
> and I had to wait in the heat while in that condition?
> What if I had had my baby with me? I have heard of blind people, even
> without dogs, being denied Ubers with their children. When these drivers
> deny us, they are generally insensitive and sometimes rude to the point
> where we question our safety. And with a baby now, I think about safety
> much more than I ever did before.
>
> All that to say, this is a problem and it should be one of our highest
> priorities. I would like to do what I can to help. I am now technically
> between dogs and caring for a very young baby, so I may not be able to
> offer as much as I would like at the moment. But we need to show Uber and
> Lyft that we are not going away and that we will take them to court, give
> them ba press, whatever it takes. I saw an article in the New York Times
> today about how Covid tests are inaccessible to blind people. I know there
> has been some press about Uber and Lyft denials, but have we gotten an
> article in a paper like the NY Times? Or maybe we could form a relationship
> with a reporter who could do a series. I love the Lyft video idea and am
> trying to encourage those around me to help with that.
>
> The bottom line is that we rely on Lyft and Uber. The drivers are
> blatantly breaking the law, and they don't care about the consequences
> because Uber does not enforce its own policies. We absolutely must show
> them that the ADA is a civil rights law, just like any other, and that
> there is no excuse.
>
> Julie
>
>
> On 1/15/22, judotina48kg--- via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > I agree with Michael. I believe it is time to take a more aggressive
> > approach with respect to Uber and its discriminative practices with
> > their policies concerning Guide and Service dogs.
> > Tina and the Little Man
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Mike Hingson via
> > NAGDU
> > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 5:14 PM
> > To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: mike at michaelhingson.com
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting
> > serious
> >
> > Cindy,
> >
> > I agree. However, Uber especially continues to flaunt its lack of real
> > interest in fixing the problems in spite of the legal settlement and
> > the multi-year input from the NFB. The NFB is doing quite a bit, but I
> > can but wonder if it is time once again to litigate. It will be
> > interesting to hear about Lyft concerns, but there is no way to doubt
> > for most of us that Uber is still the bigger elephant in the room.
> > Lisa Irving won her own Uber law suit last year and even so, nothing
> seems to be changing in Uber's mindset.
> >
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> >
> > Michael Hingson
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via
> > NAGDU
> > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 5:08 PM
> > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting
> > serious
> >
> > Lynn, I’m not sure what you mean by the Nfb and ACB can’t do anything
> > about Lyft and Uber. We’ve been working on it for years, and in
> > someways things are better. The drivers have just learned that they
> > found a new weapon Dash no masks. And even if it’s a lie, they’re
> > using it until they’re not able to anymore. Nfb and probably a CB two
> > are working on it still. The idea of risking Lyft and Uber going
> > bankrupt is a bad idea for those of us who don’t have bus service and
> > trolley service and train service etc., because taxi services hire. I
> don’t think we would want to take that route personally.
> > This is, of course, my point of you. At the same time, I definitely
> > deplore what they are doing. I hope at some point we can get enough
> > creativity about us that they can begin to see we really and truly
> > mean business. Cindy Lou Ray, moderator,  Cindy ray at gmail.com
> >
> > Cindy Lou Ray
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Jan 14, 2022, at 6:56 PM, Lyn Gwizdak via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hey all,
> >>
> >> How about finding a friendly reporter from the press or tv news?
> >> Maybe Uber and Lyft need some bad press to go with law suits. Too bad
> >> we couldn't get a big public boycott so Uber and Lyft risk going
> >> bankrupt. This is really disgusting and it sucks that NFB and ACB
> >> cant do anything. I dont use these platforms because of these bigoted
> >> drivers and I cant afford it anyway. I take buses, the trolley, and
> >> paratransit for all my transportation needs.
> >>
> >> Lyn and Aristotle
> >>
> >>> On Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 1:13 PM robert stigile via NAGDU
> >>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Annette,
> >>> No, I have not had it where they said I was not wearing a mask. But,
> >>> I had to Ubers in a row a week ago canceled and it was raining a lot.
> >>> So I reported him, and uber called me to find out what happened and
> >>> I told him and one of the drivers was blatant and his discrimination
> >>> and they still said they educated him and he is  back on the
> >>> platform just don’t get it!
> >>>
> >>> Robert Stigile, Second Vice-President National Federation of the
> >>> Blind of California President San Fernando Valley Chapter
> >>> 818-381-9568
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Jan 14, 2022, at 12:36 PM, Melissa Allman via NAGDU
> >>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Anette. What you are saying is unfortunately all too common.
> >>>> I'm not
> >>> great at taking selfies so I'll leave that topic alone but will be
> >>> interested in the perspectives of others on that. However, I think
> >>> it would be worth reaching out to the state protection and advocacy
> >>> agency as you suggest. Unfortunately Uber's terms and conditions
> >>> have an arbitration clause which is limiting. However, some people
> >>> have filed state law contract claims and I'm hearing that some are
> >>> exploring small claims court actions depending on whether it's
> >>> viable in the state they are in. I'm sorry to hear that about the AG
> >>> as far as the criminal law front. I would say get some legal advice
> >>> and don't give up. I'm so sorry to hear you are one more person who
> >>> has experienced this.
> >>>>
> >>>> Melissa
> >>>>
> >>>> Melissa Allman
> >>>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing Eye
> >>>> P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
> >>>> 1 Seeing Eye Way, Morristown, NJ 07960-3378 (deliveries)
> >>>> 973-539-4425 ext. x1724 | mallman at seeingeye.org | www.SeeingEye.org
> >>>>
> >>>> Your support helps us create extraordinary teams. Please help The
> >>>> Seeing
> >>> Eye by making a donation today.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of annette via
> >>>> NAGDU
> >>>> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 3:23 PM
> >>>> To: NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> >>>> Cc: annette <annettenowakowski at att.net>
> >>>> Subject: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting
> >>>> serious
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Hello all,
> >>>>
> >>>> Yesterday I was waiting for my Huber ride with my guide dog in
> >>>> harness
> >>> and I was wearing a mask.  When the driver approached and saw me he
> >>> drove off.  I received a text from Huber saying that my request
> >>> could not be filled.  I requested another rife from Huber.  This
> >>> time the app wanted me to take a selfie with my mask on and send it to
> them.
> >>> By now, I was going to be late for my appointment.  I gave up on
> >>> Huber and took Lift.  For my return trip, I requested a trip with
> >>> Huber.  I got the same message about taking a photo.  I tried a
> >>> couple of times but could not get the  photo done.  I asked for some
> >>> sighted help.  I received an email from Huber stating that the
> >>> driver reported that I was not wearing a mask which is a lie.  The
> >>> email said that if there were multiple attempts to ride without a
> >>> mask, I will lose access to the app.  Now, I have this on my record.
> >>> If this driver pulled this stunt, more drivers will do it as well and
> get away
> >>> with it.  I reported this to the   ridership survey and am going to
> >>> contact  Huber.  Has this happened to anyone else?  Does anyone have
> >>> any tips on how to take a selfie for the Huber app?  I feel so
> >>> helpless.  It’s my word against the driver, and the driver wins.
> >>> Huber sides with the driver and against the customer.  A couple of
> >>> years ago, I complained to Huber about a refusal of service.  Huber
> >>> just said they would talk to the driver, but no disciplinary action
> >>> was taken.  I know NFB’s history of taking action against Huber and
> >>> Lift, but feel something else must be done.  Who regulates Huber and
> >>> Lift?  In the past, someone suggested filing a criminal misdemeanor
> >>> against the driver.  However, the city and county states attorneys
> >>> here in St. Louis have dismal prosecution records and thousands of
> >>> misdemeanors cases, and I don’t think I would get far.  Should I
> >>> report this to the Attorney General, Protection and Advocacy, the
> >>> BBB or who?
> >>>>
> >>>> Annette
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> --
> Julie A. McGinnity
> MM Vocal Performance, 2015; American University Washington College of Law,
> JD Candidate 2023
>
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