[NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting serious
annettenowakowski at att.net
annettenowakowski at att.net
Sat Jan 15 19:00:35 UTC 2022
Hi all,
Thanks for all of your comments and support. I contacted Huber to file a complaint through their website. Their response was that I could still order rides and take trips. I responded that I wanted the incident removed from my record, wanted the requirement of a photo removed, wanted the driver blocked from picking me up and wanted the driver to receive a formal warning. In their response, they reiterated the mask policy and their first response. Clearly, nothing will be done about the driver.
Annette
-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Lyn Gwizdak via NAGDU
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2022 12:44 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Lyn Gwizdak <gwizdaklyn at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting serious
Alysha,
I hear you on this. I am seriously debating whether I want another dog after Ari retires or not. With the stuff with airlines, rideshares, taxis, vicious dogs being brought out in public by owners who dont give a damn about the safety of the public.
I refuse to jump through hoops and fight forever for the things non disabled have access to with no problem or a thought. I will not put up with disrespectful behavior towards me. I'm getting too old for that. I have fought for things all my life and now I'm tired. I just want to live my life in peace with as few hassles as possible. I am respectful of others except for people who let their unruly pets snarl and try to attack my dog on the sidewalks, in stores. I have learned that there are people who refuse to educated such as Uber drivers and the company itself. I am happy to educate someone sincerely wants to learn. But you cant fix stupid.
Lyn and Aristotle
On Sat, Jan 15, 2022, 10:22 AM Alysha Hiller via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
> I also 100% agree with what has been said. I often don't bring my dog
> on trips when I take Uber and Lyft because I just don't want to deal
> with the potential for denials. Is this letting the law breakers win?
> Yes it is. But I need to do my best to make sure I can get where I
> need to go on time. I would be even more reluctant to roll the dice on
> an Uber trip when traveling with my children. Issues like these and
> all the problems with the airlines are also a factor in my decision
> not to apply for a successor dog once my current guide retires. I love
> working a dog and find my dog very helpful for mobility, but there
> comes a point when the access denials and battles start to negate some
> of the positives of having a guide dog. I don't know what the answer is, but clearly more work needs to be done.
>
> Best,
> Alysha
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Diane Graves via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2022 12:09 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> < nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: rdgraves2007 at gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting
> serious
>
> I agree with the foregoing comments completely.
>
> , I am on my first dog. We'Ve been together for almost 5 years now and
> we hopefully have several good working years left. However, one of the
> biggest considerations that come into play when I think about whether
> or not there will be a second dog is the situation with these Uber and
> Lyft drivers and having to fight with them every time I wan to get from point A to point B.
>
> I don't live in a neighborhood that is conducive to bus travel, so
> sometimes these services are our only option. Do I really want to
> spend so much time and energy wondering whether I'll get denied a ride
> to my destination or wondering whether I'll get home once I get there
> because of these people who are allowed to break the law so blatantly.
> Is it worth the battle?
>
> Something really does need to be done. It does absolutely no good to
> have a policy or a settlement agreement on paper if you aren't going
> to enforce it.
>
> Diane Graves
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2022 10:59 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting
> serious
>
> Hi all,
>
> I have to agree with Lynn and Mike here. It's about time that we take
> drastic action against Uber and Lyft. I am generally not one to
> complain about what an organization does not do when I am not helping
> to solve the problem, but it seems as though dog denials are
> increasing and our response to them as an organization is falling off.
>
> I, too have been denied a ride and then received a message that the
> driver canceled because I was supposedly not wearing a mask. Not true, obviously.
> I believe this happened to me twice, once right after the start of the
> pandemic, and once last summer. My last Uber denial, one of the last
> trips I took with my now retired guide, was so bad. The driver told me
> to my face that he would not take me, that he did not care what
> happened to him, and that he did not care I would be 15 minutes late
> for class. (This denial was the second one I had experienced that
> morning.) I was 8 months pregnant and very uncomfortable and
> emotional. I was not mean, but I did cry while trying to explain the
> law to him. That particular denial got me thinking about all kinds of
> dangerous situations. What if it had been hot outside and I had to wait in the heat while in that condition?
> What if I had had my baby with me? I have heard of blind people, even
> without dogs, being denied Ubers with their children. When these
> drivers deny us, they are generally insensitive and sometimes rude to
> the point where we question our safety. And with a baby now, I think
> about safety much more than I ever did before.
>
> All that to say, this is a problem and it should be one of our highest
> priorities. I would like to do what I can to help. I am now
> technically between dogs and caring for a very young baby, so I may
> not be able to offer as much as I would like at the moment. But we
> need to show Uber and Lyft that we are not going away and that we will
> take them to court, give them ba press, whatever it takes. I saw an
> article in the New York Times today about how Covid tests are
> inaccessible to blind people. I know there has been some press about
> Uber and Lyft denials, but have we gotten an article in a paper like
> the NY Times? Or maybe we could form a relationship with a reporter
> who could do a series. I love the Lyft video idea and am trying to encourage those around me to help with that.
>
> The bottom line is that we rely on Lyft and Uber. The drivers are
> blatantly breaking the law, and they don't care about the consequences
> because Uber does not enforce its own policies. We absolutely must
> show them that the ADA is a civil rights law, just like any other, and
> that there is no excuse.
>
> Julie
>
>
> On 1/15/22, judotina48kg--- via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > I agree with Michael. I believe it is time to take a more aggressive
> > approach with respect to Uber and its discriminative practices with
> > their policies concerning Guide and Service dogs.
> > Tina and the Little Man
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Mike Hingson via
> > NAGDU
> > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 5:14 PM
> > To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: mike at michaelhingson.com
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting
> > serious
> >
> > Cindy,
> >
> > I agree. However, Uber especially continues to flaunt its lack of
> > real interest in fixing the problems in spite of the legal
> > settlement and the multi-year input from the NFB. The NFB is doing
> > quite a bit, but I can but wonder if it is time once again to
> > litigate. It will be interesting to hear about Lyft concerns, but
> > there is no way to doubt for most of us that Uber is still the bigger elephant in the room.
> > Lisa Irving won her own Uber law suit last year and even so, nothing
> seems to be changing in Uber's mindset.
> >
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> >
> > Michael Hingson
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via
> > NAGDU
> > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 5:08 PM
> > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting
> > serious
> >
> > Lynn, I’m not sure what you mean by the Nfb and ACB can’t do
> > anything about Lyft and Uber. We’ve been working on it for years,
> > and in someways things are better. The drivers have just learned
> > that they found a new weapon Dash no masks. And even if it’s a lie,
> > they’re using it until they’re not able to anymore. Nfb and probably
> > a CB two are working on it still. The idea of risking Lyft and Uber
> > going bankrupt is a bad idea for those of us who don’t have bus
> > service and trolley service and train service etc., because taxi
> > services hire. I
> don’t think we would want to take that route personally.
> > This is, of course, my point of you. At the same time, I definitely
> > deplore what they are doing. I hope at some point we can get enough
> > creativity about us that they can begin to see we really and truly
> > mean business. Cindy Lou Ray, moderator, Cindy ray at gmail.com
> >
> > Cindy Lou Ray
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Jan 14, 2022, at 6:56 PM, Lyn Gwizdak via NAGDU
> >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hey all,
> >>
> >> How about finding a friendly reporter from the press or tv news?
> >> Maybe Uber and Lyft need some bad press to go with law suits. Too
> >> bad we couldn't get a big public boycott so Uber and Lyft risk
> >> going bankrupt. This is really disgusting and it sucks that NFB and
> >> ACB cant do anything. I dont use these platforms because of these
> >> bigoted drivers and I cant afford it anyway. I take buses, the
> >> trolley, and paratransit for all my transportation needs.
> >>
> >> Lyn and Aristotle
> >>
> >>> On Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 1:13 PM robert stigile via NAGDU
> >>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Annette,
> >>> No, I have not had it where they said I was not wearing a mask.
> >>> But, I had to Ubers in a row a week ago canceled and it was raining a lot.
> >>> So I reported him, and uber called me to find out what happened
> >>> and I told him and one of the drivers was blatant and his
> >>> discrimination and they still said they educated him and he is
> >>> back on the platform just don’t get it!
> >>>
> >>> Robert Stigile, Second Vice-President National Federation of the
> >>> Blind of California President San Fernando Valley Chapter
> >>> 818-381-9568
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Jan 14, 2022, at 12:36 PM, Melissa Allman via NAGDU
> >>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Anette. What you are saying is unfortunately all too common.
> >>>> I'm not
> >>> great at taking selfies so I'll leave that topic alone but will be
> >>> interested in the perspectives of others on that. However, I think
> >>> it would be worth reaching out to the state protection and
> >>> advocacy agency as you suggest. Unfortunately Uber's terms and
> >>> conditions have an arbitration clause which is limiting. However,
> >>> some people have filed state law contract claims and I'm hearing
> >>> that some are exploring small claims court actions depending on
> >>> whether it's viable in the state they are in. I'm sorry to hear
> >>> that about the AG as far as the criminal law front. I would say
> >>> get some legal advice and don't give up. I'm so sorry to hear you
> >>> are one more person who has experienced this.
> >>>>
> >>>> Melissa
> >>>>
> >>>> Melissa Allman
> >>>> Senior Specialist, Advocacy and Government Relations The Seeing
> >>>> Eye P.O. Box 375, Morristown, NJ 07963-0375 (mail)
> >>>> 1 Seeing Eye Way, Morristown, NJ 07960-3378 (deliveries)
> >>>> 973-539-4425 ext. x1724 | mallman at seeingeye.org |
> >>>> www.SeeingEye.org
> >>>>
> >>>> Your support helps us create extraordinary teams. Please help The
> >>>> Seeing
> >>> Eye by making a donation today.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of annette via
> >>>> NAGDU
> >>>> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 3:23 PM
> >>>> To: NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> >>>> Cc: annette <annettenowakowski at att.net>
> >>>> Subject: [NAGDU] another incident with Huber and its getting
> >>>> serious
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Hello all,
> >>>>
> >>>> Yesterday I was waiting for my Huber ride with my guide dog in
> >>>> harness
> >>> and I was wearing a mask. When the driver approached and saw me
> >>> he drove off. I received a text from Huber saying that my request
> >>> could not be filled. I requested another rife from Huber. This
> >>> time the app wanted me to take a selfie with my mask on and send
> >>> it to
> them.
> >>> By now, I was going to be late for my appointment. I gave up on
> >>> Huber and took Lift. For my return trip, I requested a trip with
> >>> Huber. I got the same message about taking a photo. I tried a
> >>> couple of times but could not get the photo done. I asked for
> >>> some sighted help. I received an email from Huber stating that
> >>> the driver reported that I was not wearing a mask which is a lie.
> >>> The email said that if there were multiple attempts to ride
> >>> without a mask, I will lose access to the app. Now, I have this on my record.
> >>> If this driver pulled this stunt, more drivers will do it as well
> >>> and
> get away
> >>> with it. I reported this to the ridership survey and am going to
> >>> contact Huber. Has this happened to anyone else? Does anyone
> >>> have any tips on how to take a selfie for the Huber app? I feel
> >>> so helpless. It’s my word against the driver, and the driver wins.
> >>> Huber sides with the driver and against the customer. A couple of
> >>> years ago, I complained to Huber about a refusal of service.
> >>> Huber just said they would talk to the driver, but no disciplinary
> >>> action was taken. I know NFB’s history of taking action against
> >>> Huber and Lift, but feel something else must be done. Who
> >>> regulates Huber and Lift? In the past, someone suggested filing a
> >>> criminal misdemeanor against the driver. However, the city and
> >>> county states attorneys here in St. Louis have dismal prosecution
> >>> records and thousands of misdemeanors cases, and I don’t think I
> >>> would get far. Should I report this to the Attorney General,
> >>> Protection and Advocacy, the BBB or who?
> >>>>
> >>>> Annette
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> --
> Julie A. McGinnity
> MM Vocal Performance, 2015; American University Washington College of
> Law, JD Candidate 2023
>
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