[NAGDU] guide horse

Thu Jun 22 14:10:51 UTC 2023

There is a lot of confusion and misinformation here. The ADA covers
both dogs and miniature horses as service animals. The ACAA only
covers dogs as service animals. People with guide/service mini horses
have the same right of access under the ADA as service dog handlers.
However, when it comes to flying, airlines are not required to allow
miniature horses (though they could choose to just like some choose to
allow pets under certain conditions).

That being said, there are some considerations to think about before
deciding on a horse as an SD. First, you would have to owner train or
find a private trainer. Guide programs train dogs, specifically dogs
they have chosen for their program, not horses or personal dogs.
Training a horse and a dog is not the same because they are not the
same animal. Second, the public is much, much more familiar with dogs
than horses. Dogs attract attention and occasional access denials. a
mini horse will attract a lot more attention and because people are
not familiar with them as SDs, you will likely be much more likely to
experience access denials. Horses need to both be fed and relieved
more often. They can be house broken, but will need more opportunities
to relieve and/or a litter box/outdoor access at home. They are prey
animals and therefore need a lot of socialization, training, and
proper handling to be solid and reliable in public. Socialization,
training and good handling applies to dogs also of course, but again
even more so for horses because they are prey animals not predators.
Horses do offer some advantages, mainly a much longer lifespan and
therefore career, and may be a good option for people with severe dog
allergies.

I think it's a good idea for anyone considering a mini horse as an SD
to ask themselves what a horse can offer them specifically that a dog
can not. I personally wouldn't choose a horse just because you like
them more than dogs for example. A service animal needs to
realistically fit into your lifestyle and be more of a benefit than an
inconvenience. This is actually very similar to what I recommend when
people are considering breeds of dogs as an SD. You may like a certain
breed, but will that breed be a good fit as an SD in general and for
your lifestyle in particular?

Note that I've never had a mini horse, but do know of a couple people
with task trained mini horses.

Danielle

On 6/22/23, Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Josh, there are very few people training guide horses. You will truly have
> to do that research and find your own trainer. Well, you’ll have to figure
> out how to do it yourself. As for the loss, we’re already having a load of
> trouble with dogs on airlines and rideshare. You’ve surely been around
> enough to see that. I think adding additional animals to the list only is at
> this time going to create problems. My friend Becky has been refused rides
> on Lyft four times from my house, alone, and at least one downtown because I
> was with her. I’m really really looking forward to having a dog again so
> that we can fight the battle together here. Things just aren’t switching as
> they should, and they get worse because of the addition of other animals,
> even other uses for dogs, being added into the mix. Of course, a lot of
> that’s because of emotional support animals, and what  people were beginning
> to bring on board planes, and such weird things that nobody thought of as
> service animals,. . And yes it is aren’t service animals. I understand your
> desire for a horse, but honestly, I think that we probably have to hold off
> on that. So far, it really hasn’t worked out well. And it’s been tried. I
> heard some rather negative comments about a guide horse at the Atlanta
> airport once. Now I don’t know if they were negative because they didn’t
> like the horse  and what it did, or negative because they just hadn’t seen
> it before. But I just don’t think we can spread our efforts that thin. I
> think you should take a shot at a dog again, because you could get the
> training done way faster. Otherwise, I think you should stick with your cane
> and continue your research. By the way, I’m not on the board, so board
> members might wait into this fray and feel very much differently about it.
> Thanks for listening.
>
> Cindy Lou Ray
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jun 22, 2023, at 7:19 AM, Josh Kennedy via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> yes, and both of those criteria fit me perfectly. There's even a tractor
>> supply nearby where I live.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jun 22, 2023, at 08:11, Carlos M Contreras via NAGDU
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> My understanding is that Miniature horses are mostly used by people who
>>> live in rural ares and walk in rural roads. Also, they are preferred by
>>> people who doesn't want to experience death of their service animal
>>> frequently.
>>>
>>>>> On Jun 21, 2023, at 4:31 PM, Jody ianuzzi via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> In 2011, the ADA restricted assistance animals to dogs. So many people
>>>> tried passing off all kinds of exotic animals as assistance animals that
>>>> it caused a lot of trouble. Guide horses that were working at the time
>>>> were grandfathered in and allowed to continue but I don’t think new
>>>> guide horses are permitted under the ADA.
>>>>
>>>> it is difficult enough to get through the grocery store with a guy dog
>>>> without drawing attention, having a guide horse would probably make it
>>>> even more difficult to go to public places.
>>>>
>>>> I absolutely adore horses, but I don’t think they’re appropriate animals
>>>> to be guides. Horses are a flight animal  And would require a lot of
>>>> socialization and desensitizing in order to work in a heavy traffic
>>>> environment.
>>>>
>>>> There’s also the difficulty that they have to wear appropriate shoes and
>>>> a toileting harness at all times. They don’t fold easily in a small
>>>> space such as under an airline seat, or in a car.
>>>>
>>>> I think the advantage of the horse has they have a much longer life than
>>>> a dog, but loving both dogs and horses. I can’t imagine having a guide
>>>> horse.
>>>>
>>>> JODY
>>>>
>>>> To Boldly Go  🖖🏻
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> thunderwalker321 at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> "What's within you is stronger than what's in your way."  NO BARRIERS
>>>> Erik Weihenmayer
>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 21, 2023, at 4:21 PM, Josh via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Isn't there any possible way I could have a class A 26 to 30 inch tall
>>>>> mini horse guide animal? A guide horse? Could a guide dog school train
>>>>> one for me? Ann Edie has her guide horse, Panda, after all, who was
>>>>> trained by Alexandra Kurland. The more time I spend with Jazzy, the
>>>>> more I love mini horses! I feel very very safe and comfortable with
>>>>> miniature horses.
>>>>>
>>>>> Josh
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Leye-Shprintse
>>>>> Teller via NAGDU
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2023 14:19
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Leye-Shprintse Teller <leyeshprintse at icloud.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Juno
>>>>>
>>>>> BS’D
>>>>>
>>>>> Josh,
>>>>>
>>>>> I’d say that your experience of being dragged around has less to do
>>>>> with the guide dog than the specific guide dog which you were working
>>>>> with. When I got my first guide dog, now passed, I was on an
>>>>> Information Course before I was accepted, it’s the routine in my
>>>>> country of birth, and I got to work three different guide dogs, a male
>>>>> Labradoodle, a male Labrador and a female Labrador. The boys dragged me
>>>>> around because their physical size and pace didn’t match me, the small
>>>>> female Labrador with several walking speeds matched me better and when
>>>>> I got my first guide dog Hera, she was the perfect match for me. I
>>>>> don’t want to minimalize your experience but guide dogs are like us
>>>>> humans, different. You need to have the best match for you to get a
>>>>> smoothly partnership for both human and dog.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind Regards,
>>>>> לשלום,
>>>>> Leye-Shprintse Teller
>>>>> Brooklyn (N.Y.), U.S.
>>>>> +1 (929) 977-8890
>>>>> leyeshprintse at icloud.com
>>>>> www.leyeshprintse.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone XR
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 21, 2023, at 7:52 AM, Josh via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wish I could do a juno walk with a guide horse somehow. I would
>>>>>> absolutely love that! Specifically a class A 26 to 30 inch tall mini
>>>>>> guide horse. I visited a guide dog school over 20 years ago. I felt I
>>>>>> was being dragged by the dog. When I walk with the female mini horse
>>>>>> with  the lead rope. Note I do not own the horse... anyway she has a
>>>>>> nice fluid smooth motion when she walks. She doesn't pull me at all,
>>>>>> like the dog at the guide dog school did, and unless like the one time
>>>>>> she was distracted by some grass getting her back on track is
>>>>>> relatively easy. At least for me it is. I would love a guide horse
>>>>>> similar to Jazzy someday. She is such a good little horse!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Stephanie Mcdowell
>>>>>> via NAGDU
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2023 7:41
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Cc: Stephanie Mcdowell <smcdowell_2005 at yahoo.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Juno
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Cindy,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is exciting. Have fun.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stephanie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jun 20, 2023, at 9:26 PM, Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have a Juno walk next Tuesday. I am really excited about it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cindy Lou Ray
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> Cindyray at gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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