[NAGDU] Stress of discrimination

Thu Feb 22 23:46:07 UTC 2024

Hello Christina,

I'm sure plenty of people don't travel in large cities. What this does come
down to is making the dog work, not having family members take the dog for a
walk you doing that yourself, thus keeping up the guiding skills.

COVID had many people work from home who would have usually worked from an
office, so they had to start taking the dog for a walk before they started
work or once they finished work. As I was told by someone in this situation
"taking the dog for a walk while working from home means I come out ahead".
This meant he could walk his guide and still be home before the usual daily
commute had finished.

I'm sure with such an attitude and you not getting others to walk your dog
you will be absolutely fine.

Enough of the negative thoughts. Chin up girl...

Cheers.

Brent.

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Christina Moore
via NAGDU
Sent: Friday, 23 February 2024 9:10 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Christina Moore
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Stress of discrimination

Hi Cindy,
I appreciate your positive perspective on this, Cindy. I tend to get into
my own head and let negative self-talk talk me out of things so it is good
to know I am not alone in feeling how I feel about our current
circumstances as service dog users and the fact that I'm not the only one
who does not travel in large cities.
Christina

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 3:37 PM Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:

> Hi, Christina,
> I am currently waiting for the opportunity to train with another dog from
> The Seeing Eye. I am almost certain that I would not get out as much if I
> weren’t exercising a dog. Currently I am walking a Yorkie every day, and
> without him, I am sure I would only be using my Treadmill. You said you
> want and need a dog. If you want and need a dog, then go for it. I am
> doing
> that, and I am excited to see what adventures lie ahead for me. Like you,
> I
> wasn’t sure that I would want to put up with the things we are currently
> required to put up with, but one day I decided that it is just part of the
> adventure of life. I will continue to try to change these things, but in
> the meantime, I will try to train with another dog and have happy trails
> with that udog.
> Cindyray at gmail.com
>
> Cindy Lou Ray
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 22, 2024, at 1:20 PM, Christina Moore via NAGDU
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Tracy,
> >
> > Thank you for your words of encouragement and support. I've had my share
> of
> > denials in the past so that does contribute to my concerns in a large
> way.
> > I've found the flight process pretty straightforward though and do not
> mind
> > too much about having to fill out the form (though it is an
> inconvenience).
> > I also am at a different stage in my life right now: I don't get out as
> > much as did back when I was in college and had my first guide (I work
> from
> > home so would only be doing mainly exercise walks which TSE said is
> fine).
> > I was thinking maybe Uber and Lyft Etc. could add a checkbox that a
> person
> > could check in their profile saying they have a service dog so then the
> > drivers who will accept can accept and those who won't will not bother
> but
> > then that in itself would be discriminatory and not hold the drivers
> > accountable for their actions and give them a way out of complying. It
> > is
> > definitely a tricky thing and I'm not sure what the best option for us
> > to
> > be treated equally and with respect is.
> > Christina
> >
> >> On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 8:10 AM Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Christina.
> >> Of course it's up to you, but for me the advantages of having a dog far
> >> outweigh the stress of worrying about possible discrimination.  We hear
> >> about the problems; we don't hear about the times that went well.  I
> know
> >> it's different in different places, but here in Jersey most of my Uber
> >> rides go well.  I worry a bit every time, but not so much that I don't
> go
> >> or I think about going without my dog, unless there's a real good
> >> reason
> >> other than worry about some dumb driver.  And I was very worried about
> >> flying last summer.  It was a huge hassle to deal with the stinking
> >> paperwork, but the flights actually went well.
> >> So it's up to you.  How many problems do you actually have?  How
> stressful
> >> for you is it?  Those are the questions I'd ask myself.
> >> Tracy
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Christina Moore via
> >> NAGDU
> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2024 9:06 PM
> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <
> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> Cc: Christina Moore <moorechristina107 at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Horrible Experience with JetBlue
> >>
> >> I'm sorry this happened to you. There is no reason this should have
> >> happened in the first place.
> >> All of the trouble people have been having with rideshares and the
> >> flights, make me question if I should get another dog altogether...I'm
> on
> >> the waiting list for Seeing Eye however things are complicated right
> >> now
> >> with our ability to travel freely with our dogs so I'm not sure what to
> do.
> >> I really want and need a new dog but is all of this stress worth it
> when I
> >> can just bring a cane? I'm unsure about this because I know with a dog
> >> I
> >> travel more-easily, more-freely if that makes sense and I feel
> >> more-confident than with my cane (though I have good cane skills) I
> >> feel
> >> like my preferred tool is the guide dog. I'm more independent with a
> >> dog
> >> than a cane. Thoughts?
> >> Christina
> >>
> >> On Wed, Feb 21, 2024 at 8:43 PM Michael Forzano via NAGDU <
> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Exactly. Since the very beginning of the interaction I kept saying
> >>> that I'm blind and she's my seeing eye dog, I filled out the form
> >>> already and can you please just add her to the reservation. There was
> >>> no empathy or coppassion shown by these employees. I was viewed as in
> >>> the wrong until my girlfriend and I somehow got through to them. It
> >>> was really surprising, honestly.
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>> On Feb 21, 2024, at 6:39 PM, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU
> >>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> This is outrageous.  Is it time to start calling the media?  They
> >>>> beat
> >>> the
> >>>> heck out of the emotional support peacock.  They might at least show
> >>>> the blind guy with his Seeing Eye dog being hassled by the airlines
> >>>> that everyone despises.
> >>>> How long, O Lord, how long?!
> >>>> Tracy
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Michael Forzano
> >>>> via NAGDU
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2024 5:20 PM
> >>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>>> Cc: Michael Forzano <michaeldforzano at gmail.com>
> >>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Horrible Experience with JetBlue
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi All,
> >>>>
> >>>> Below is the text of the DOT complaint I submitted yesterday
> >>>> regarding my experience with JetBlue this past Sunday. I wanted to
> >>>> post here so the
> >>> board
> >>>> is aware in case it helps in our advocacy efforts, and so that the
> >>>> NAGDU community is informed of the kinds of experience that await
> >>>> you if you choose to fly this airline.
> >>>>
> >>>> On February 18, 2024, I traveled from New York (JFK) to Fort
> >>>> Lauderdale
> >>>> (FLL) on JetBlue flight 1401. I am blind and travel with a Seeing
> >>>> Eye
> >>> dog.
> >>>> I filled out the required DOT form weeks before my flight and
> >>>> received
> >>> the
> >>>> email from the Open Doors Organization, which JetBlue partners with,
> >>> that my
> >>>> travel was approved. At JFK Terminal 5, JetBlue has instructed the
> >>>> TSA boarding pass checkers not to let anyone with a dog through
> >>>> unless they
> >>> have
> >>>> the dog listed on their boarding pass. Mine was not, so I was told
> >>>> that I needed to go to the check in counter. I refused and asked to
> >>>> speak with a supervisor. As I checked in online, I should not have
> >>>> to go stand in
> >>> another
> >>>> line and requiring this of me is discriminatory.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Most of the employees I dealt with were rude and confrontational,
> >>>> and
> >>> would
> >>>> not listen when I explained that I had filled out the form and it
> >>>> had
> >>> been
> >>>> approved. I even showed them the approval email from Open Doors
> >>>> which confirmed I was approved to fly with my guide dog on the
> >>>> applicable confirmation number. The email is also attached to this
> >>>> complaint. I was even asked to fill out the form again despite
> >>>> having the email proving I
> >>> had
> >>>> already filled it out. As a totally blind person, filling out a
> >>>> print
> >>> copy
> >>>> of a form is not something I am capable of doing. I had to argue
> >>>> with
> >>>> 4 different people before a supervisor finally agreed to just add my
> >>>> dog
> >>> to
> >>>> the reservation. At the end of it, I was told that it was a glitch
> >>>> in the system where even though I filled out the form it was not
> >>>> linked to my reservation. The last employee I spoke to even said he
> >>>> has a family
> >>> member
> >>>> who has a guide dog, and this happens to them all the time. This is
> >>>> absolutely unacceptable. All said and done, I wasted a half hour of
> >>>> my
> >>> time,
> >>>> with my girlfriend and I standing there humiliated as people
> >>>> streamed
> >>> past
> >>>> us going through TSA. It was beyond embarrassing and the emotional
> >>>> toll
> >>> this
> >>>> incident has taken on me is significant. I worry that in the future,
> >>>> I
> >>> will
> >>>> end up missing a flight because an issue such as this one occurs.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> It's one thing to have these burdensome forms to deal with, but
> >>>> another
> >>> for
> >>>> the systems to not work correctly so that people who follow the
> >>>> rules are still penalized. I fly every month and have flown just
> >>>> about every US airline since the regulations have gone into effect
> >>>> and this is by far
> >>> the
> >>>> worst experience I have had. Most airlines are at least respectful
> >>>> and do their best to work with us, but not JetBlue. Throughout the
> >>>> whole
> >>> ordeal, I
> >>>> was talked down to as if I didn't know what I was doing and this was
> >>>> my fault, and it took literally half an hour and 4 people for them
> >>>> to admit that the airline dropped the ball.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I am filing this complaint as JetBlue needs to be held accountable
> >>>> for
> >>> their
> >>>> mistake. I would like to be made aware of steps that JetBlue is
> >>>> taking to prevent this from happening again. The systems need to be
> >>>> rectified so
> >>> that
> >>>> the forms are correctly added to the reservation when filled out,
> >>>> and JetBlue employees need training on how to interact with
> >>>> customers with disabilities and how to treat them with the dignity
> >>>> and respect they deserve.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> In addition to the DOT complaint, a complaint was filed on my behalf
> >>>> by airport staff. JetBlue responded today, denying any wrongdoing
> >>>> under the
> >>> DOT
> >>>> rules. They stated that my dog was added to the reservation on
> >>>> December
> >>> 31,
> >>>> when I filled out the form, and that she wasn't listed on the
> >>>> boarding
> >>> pass
> >>>> due to a technical glitch. Despite having to relive the entire
> >>> experience on
> >>>> a phone conversation with their executive team, they were not at all
> >>>> apologetic about the conduct of their employees and refused to offer
> >>>> me
> >>> any
> >>>> compensation even when I explicitly asked for it. Apparently, we are
> >>>> expected to live with these "technical glitches" and just suck it up
> >>>> and deal when we are held up at the airport. They have also given me
> >>>> no guarantee that this won't happen on my return flight on Saturday.
> >>>> At this point, I'm considering cancelling and booking with another
> >>>> airline, even
> >>> if
> >>>> it would cost me over $600 for my girlfriend and I.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm truly frustrated with not only what happened but their totally
> >>>> inadequate response as well.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -Michael
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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