[NAGDU] Graduate feedback

Fri Jun 7 15:08:49 UTC 2024

I can give you one example of how being in touch with my dog's raiser family helped. I had just finished home training with a dog, and a few days later she was terribly ill, vomiting, diarrhea, all that not so fun stuff. GDB was feeding eukanuba at the time. I learned from the raisers that this dog had always had these problems periodically while in the puppy home. I decided a food switch was in order and did so right away. Sure, I could have gotten there eventually, but learning that this was history for that dog helped me make a change immediately, instead of messing around with trying other things. I was a almost 30 year handler at the time, so I had lots of tricks up my sleeves. And who helped me with researching other foods? Why it was the leaders of a local GDB puppy raising group I'd been involved with for a while. I was working full time then, and they did research, went to different pet food stores and helped find a food that was easy on that dog's tummy. When I spoke to that dog's trainers about it later, they had no idea. Also I never once have had a problem with my dogs' raisers trying to tell me how to handle my dogs. I got my first dog in 1975, so that's a long time. Of course, there have been raisers that have been that sort, but I just have never experienced it. I've learned about different commands raisers might use that were not taught in formal training. The GDB raisers had a command called Kennel. They used it to teach the puppies to get in their crates. But they also used it for telling the pup to get in a vehicle, under a table at a restaurant, things like that. It was like magic when I started using that command with the dog I had at the time. One raiser and I became good friends, and she never said one word about how I handled that dog, even though we lived about half an hour apart and were theater buddies, making a day of going down to Denver and getting lunch and then to the theater for shows, my guide with me all the time. Another time, I reached out to a local puppy raising group to help me find a home for a dog I had to retire and couldn't keep. They put the call out to raisers in the area, and that dog was adopted by a wonderful older couple, the perfect home for this dog. And there's the element for me, that I've been in touch with my raisers for what will be 50 years next year, you know, every dog's raisers. Some were close, some were once a year letters, but they've been a part of my life. And I've participated in puppy raising clubs, been friends with many others through online groups, some of whom I've known for around 30 years. It's always augmented my life, not detracted. There are often things raisers might know that trainers never do because trainers don't always see the dogs in a home environment. Now that I have a dog from guiding eyes, the raisers are in new York, and I'm in California. She is a long-time adult raiser for GEB, and since I had home training, we never had the opportunity to meet. But last year, she and her boyfriend did a several month cross-country trip, and they stopped here, spending a day with us. It was sweet to see them together, and sweeter yet to see that Shani still stuck pretty close to me. But I got to know two terrific people who I would be friends with if we lived closer together. When it all comes down to it, though, the basic questions is, shouldn't this be my and my raisers' choice? Why does TSE have the right to say I cannot be in touch with the raiser, if I had a dog from them? I am an adult and want that choice. Raisers have added a wealth of knowledge, friendship and fun to my life, so why not be in touch. Still, I know it's not something everyone wants, and that's okay too. Thankfully, the pro raiser contact schools make it something that both sides must agree to now. with my first couple dogs, both sides were given contact info upon graduating, and neither had the ability to say, no, I don't want to be in touch. Now, both handler and raiser have to agree to it, and either can choose to stop as well. Anyway, a very long answer, but just a drop in the bucket of how knowing either my dogs' raisers, or other raisers through local groups or the internet has enriched my life in many ways. It always comes down to personal choice for me.

Sherry
Sherry.gomes at outlook.com

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Al Sten-Clanton via NAGDU
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2024 5:17 AM
To: Sherry Gomes via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Al Sten-Clanton <albert.e.sten_clanton at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Graduate feedback

Having never had contact with any puppy raiser of one of my five dogs, I'm curious why some see this as quite important.  I don't mean that it wouldn't be nice and sometimes useful:  there have been a few times when I wanted to ask some questions about my current dog and my third one. That said, if my school can help me with any problems I have, as it has from time to time, I doubt I need that contact.  Also, given how much folks can track other folks these days, I wouldn't want the puppy raiser to claim some privilege to tell me how to deal with my dog.  Even connections that begin with mutual cordiality can go wrong, and I wouldn't want somebody who is mostly a stranger to think he or she or they could take a hand in my care and work with the dog.

Mind, I'm not closed to the idea.  Had that sort of thing been The Seeing Eye's practice when I first went there in 1979, I'm pretty sure I would have thought it was fine, unless a problem came up.  Sheldon's raiser wrote up a good and sometimes amusing commentary; it helped some, though I'd have been glad to know more.  But not very far along, I think, what the puppy raiser could tell me would ge less and less helpful as I learned first-hand (or is it first-paw) about my dog, and the school will almost certainly be my best source of help.

I also note that I've heard only fragments of Seeing Eye's notions about contact with puppy raisers.  I'm therefore interested not only in alternative views but, if anybody can tell me, a better understanding of Seeing Eye's.

Best!

Al

On 6/6/24 23:56, Sherry Gomes via NAGDU wrote:
> I went as far as submitting an application to TSE when GDB denied me after over 40 years, because I refused to continue to work with an unsafe dog after trying for five years. I'd applied to TSE when I was in high school, applied to both TES and GDB, which were the only schools I'd hear of in the 70s. I told both schools about my juvenile arthritis and my fused knee, range of motion and chronic pain. GDB said we can get you a dog, TES said I couldn't possibly work a guide dog. But by the time I retired my last GDB dog in 2019, I knew TSE did not have that policy anymore, and I came very close to picking them, because I knew what a fantastic reputation thy have and I wanted the best possible dog. In the end, I didn't follow through, because of the puppy raiser issue. I'm personal friends with a lot of puppy raisers, not necessarily any that raised my dogs, and I could never attend a guide dog training org that wouldn't let me and the raiser choose to be in touch. I got a wonder wonderful perfect match from guiding eyes, but there's a part of me that will always wish I could have gotten a seeing eye dog. I love hearing about the training from all of you.
>
> Sherry
> Sherry.gomes at outlook.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Al Sten-Clanton 
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, June 6, 2024 7:32 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: albert.e.sten_clanton at verizon.net
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Graduate feedback
>
> I don't know in general how well Seeing Eye listens to its graduates.  I've felt free to tell the folks what I think the few times I thought I should, but of course I can't tell whether anything I've said had an incremental affect on changes.  Also, to listen respectfully is of course not necessarily to agree, and I consider that the place may be more right than I am on a given topic, but I have had a couple of good conversations with instructors and a couple of others with senior staff.  I also don't know how many graduates share my views, especially as I seem to be somewhat quirky in my thinking on a variety of subjects, including, to a small degree, on guide dog work and school operation.
>
> Al
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via 
> NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, June 6, 2024 10:22 PM
> To: NAGDU Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Graduate feedback
>
> Elizabeth asked an interesting question in her previous message. Do the schools appreciate our feedback when we are out using our dogs. If our experiences make us think changes could be well received in training, do they listen to us? Do they ever incorporate them. Do you feel heard when talking to the school if it is not about your current dog? Elizabeth, you can address that because maybe I didn’t make it completely clearly according to what you were looking for.
>
> Cindy Lou Ray
> Sent from my iPhone
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