[NAGDU] leash guiding

albert.e.sten_clanton at verizon.net albert.e.sten_clanton at verizon.net
Tue Jun 11 02:43:53 UTC 2024 

Thank you for that info.  I don't know if I should try it on my own or not.  Any thoughts?  (After all, to some extent we often expand on the training we got after we've been working with a dog for a while.)

Al

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Danielle Sykora via NAGDU
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2024 9:37 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Danielle Sykora <dsykora29 at gmail.com>
Subject: [NAGDU] leash guiding

Leash guiding involves the handler holding the leash close to the dog's collar, standing just behind the dog's shoulders. The dog is expected to guide the same way it would in harness--stopping for obstacles, ignoring distractions, etc. The handler uses all the same cues and footwork as if the dog were guiding in harness. It is meant to be used for short distances in familiar environments. Some examples involves taking the dog out to relieve to an area outside your dorm/apartment building, going from a house to a car, or going from your office to the bathroom just down the hallway.
It should not be used for long distances, when crossing streets, or in areas that are very complicated.

Many dogs will naturally perform some guide tasks on leash; however, what differentiates true leash guiding is that 1. the way the leash is held and the handler's position makes it feasible to follow the dog appropriately and 2. the dog is held to the same standard as when it is in harness. So for example, a dog can not effectively guide at the end of a four foot leash. In addition, it's important that handler's don't take the attitude of "oh the dog is only leash guiding so it's OK they didn't stop for this obstacle," because this will cause leash guiding to not be reliable.

GDF is the only program that formally trains dogs and handlers to use leash guiding, so it should not be expected that dogs from other programs are familiar with this concept without being introduced to it.

Danielle



On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 2:17 PM Al Sten-Clanton via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:

> How does leash guid work?  I'm pretty sure I was never trained with 
> that?  I think my dog does it sometimes anyway, but I'm not sure, 
> since I don't know how it's supposed to work.
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Al
>
>
> On 6/7/24 11:15, Bryan Gearry via NAGDU wrote:
> > Danielle, I agree with you about leash guiding. Am on my third dog 
> > from GDF and our class brought up the same issue. The trainers 
> > worked with us on leash guide. I find it a great tool. They were 
> > very receptive to teaching us. I don't know about the other schools 
> > which I'm sure are very good as well, but GDF has been very 
> > accommodating to my lifestyle and tailor fit the training to reflect 
> > this. Bryan
> >
> > On 6/7/2024 6:34 AM, Danielle Sykora via NAGDU wrote:
> >> I have had two dogs from the guide Dog Foundation, and I have 
> >> actually been pretty impressed that they have made some obvious 
> >> changes due to graduate feedback. A couple examples. GDF teaches 
> >> their dogs to leash guide in a very specific way in certain 
> >> situations. At one point, they stopped training dogs to leash guide.
> >> Several graduates expressed our concerns as we found leash guiding 
> >> to be incredibly useful. Several of us were given the opportunity 
> >> to talk to the Director of training at the time, and I think this 
> >> resulted in a better understanding of the benefits and potential 
> >> downfalls of leash guiding.  Shortly after, GDF started training 
> >> leash guiding again with some changes to make it more safe and 
> >> effective. In addition, I had expressed some interest in the way 
> >> dogs were taught to handle stairs during one of my interviews in my 
> >> second class. It led to a productive conversation with the guide 
> >> dog program manager, and they actually started implementing one of 
> >> the potential methods we discussed during that conversation a few months later.
> >> Danielle
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Jun 7, 2024, at 8:18 AM, Al Sten-Clanton via 
> >>> NAGDU<nagdu at nfbnet.org>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Having never had contact with any puppy raiser of one of my five 
> >>> dogs, I'm curious why some see this as quite important. I don't 
> >>> mean that it wouldn't be nice and sometimes useful: there have 
> >>> been a few times when I wanted to ask some questions about my 
> >>> current dog and my third one.  That said, if my school can help me 
> >>> with any problems I have, as it has from time to time, I doubt I need that contact.
> >>> Also, given how much folks can track other folks these days, I 
> >>> wouldn't want the puppy raiser to claim some privilege to tell me 
> >>> how to deal with my dog.  Even connections that begin with mutual 
> >>> cordiality can go wrong, and I wouldn't want somebody who is 
> >>> mostly a stranger to think he or she or they could take a hand in 
> >>> my care and work with the dog.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Mind, I'm not closed to the idea.  Had that sort of thing been The 
> >>> Seeing Eye's practice when I first went there in 1979, I'm pretty 
> >>> sure I would have thought it was fine, unless a problem came up.
> >>> Sheldon's raiser wrote up a good and sometimes amusing commentary; 
> >>> it helped some, though I'd have been glad to know more.  But not 
> >>> very far along, I think, what the puppy raiser could tell me would 
> >>> ge less and less helpful as I learned first-hand (or is it
> >>> first-paw) about my dog, and the school will almost certainly be 
> >>> my best source of help.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I also note that I've heard only fragments of Seeing Eye's notions 
> >>> about contact with puppy raisers.  I'm therefore interested not 
> >>> only in alternative views but, if anybody can tell me, a better 
> >>> understanding of Seeing Eye's.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Best!
> >>>
> >>> Al
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On 6/6/24 23:56, Sherry Gomes via NAGDU wrote:
> >>>> I went as far as submitting an application to TSE when GDB denied 
> >>>> me after over 40 years, because I refused to continue to work 
> >>>> with an unsafe dog after trying for five years. I'd applied to 
> >>>> TSE when I was in high school, applied to both TES and GDB, which 
> >>>> were the only schools I'd hear of in the 70s. I told both schools 
> >>>> about my juvenile arthritis and my fused knee, range of motion 
> >>>> and chronic pain. GDB said we can get you a dog, TES said I 
> >>>> couldn't possibly work a guide dog. But by the time I retired my 
> >>>> last GDB dog in 2019, I knew TSE did not have that policy 
> >>>> anymore, and I came very close to picking them, because I knew 
> >>>> what a fantastic reputation thy have and I wanted the best 
> >>>> possible dog. In the end, I didn't follow through, because of the 
> >>>> puppy raiser issue. I'm personal friends with a lot of puppy 
> >>>> raisers, not necessarily any that raised my dogs, and I could 
> >>>> never attend a guide dog training org that wouldn't let me and 
> >>>> the raiser choose to be in touch. I got a wonder wonderful 
> >>>> perfect match from guiding eyes, but there's a part of me that 
> >>>> will always wish I could have gotten a seeing eye dog. I love hearing about the training from all of you.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sherry
> >>>> Sherry.gomes at outlook.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: NAGDU<nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>  On Behalf Of Al 
> >>>> Sten-Clanton via NAGDU
> >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 6, 2024 7:32 PM
> >>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
> >>>> Users'<nagdu at nfbnet.org> Cc:albert.e.sten_clanton at verizon.net
> >>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Graduate feedback
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't know in general how well Seeing Eye listens to its 
> >>>> graduates.  I've felt free to tell the folks what I think the few 
> >>>> times I thought I should, but of course I can't tell whether 
> >>>> anything I've said had an incremental affect on changes.  Also, 
> >>>> to listen respectfully is of course not necessarily to agree, and 
> >>>> I consider that the place may be more right than I am on a given 
> >>>> topic, but I have had a couple of good conversations with 
> >>>> instructors and a couple of others with senior staff.  I also 
> >>>> don't know how many graduates share my views, especially as I 
> >>>> seem to be somewhat quirky in my thinking on a variety of 
> >>>> subjects, including, to a small degree, on guide dog work and school operation.
> >>>>
> >>>> Al
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: NAGDU<nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>  On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via 
> >>>> NAGDU
> >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 6, 2024 10:22 PM
> >>>> To: NAGDU Users<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>>> Cc: Cindy Ray<cindyray at gmail.com>
> >>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Graduate feedback
> >>>>
> >>>> Elizabeth asked an interesting question in her previous message. 
> >>>> Do the schools appreciate our feedback when we are out using our dogs.
> >>>> If our experiences make us think changes could be well received 
> >>>> in training, do they listen to us? Do they ever incorporate them. 
> >>>> Do you feel heard when talking to the school if it is not about 
> >>>> your current dog? Elizabeth, you can address that because maybe I 
> >>>> didn’t make it completely clearly according to what you were looking for.
> >>>>
> >>>> Cindy Lou Ray
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
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