[Ncabs] Boycott Goodwill on Facebook!

Fri Jun 15 17:15:35 UTC 2012

Checking out the website that I posted would be a great idea. I will
see what I can do. I do know that this is a fight that has been going
on for decades. I have several older friends who advocated for this in
the '70's, and it is a very sensitive and heartfelt issue to them.
This isn't a new idea that some people all of a sudden learned about a
couple of years ago. I will talk to some of these people, and see what
I can do. I do know that a lot of the information we have from the
industries themselves is only public information that has to be given
upon request. You would think that if these numbers were great and if
they counteracted our argument that many industries would be
volunteering the information. Although the NFB training centers are
not sheltered workshops, they provide training essential for the
betterment of blind peoples' lives, and they are very happy to share
the success of their programs. Similarly, you could compare technical
school and job training not necessarily targeted for disabled people
to training programs, and they are always happy to share the
successful outcomes of the programs. We do have a lot of personal
stories, and there is that 95% figure I gave before. 95% of people who
begin careers in sheltered workshops do not ever leave that type of
work. I am sure that you could call that national office if you are
ambitious, and Anil Lewis could connect you with whatever factual
resources he knows about. I do know a lot surrounding the issue, but I
am not an expert, and I think that there is probably a lot of
information out there that I have not encountered. I have however,
seen enough evidence and heard enough personal stories from people I
care about to know that I support the Fair Wages initiative.

Cindy

On 6/15/12, Currin, Kevin <kwcurrin at live.unc.edu> wrote:
> I've seen a lot of general statements so far such as "these work places
> don't prepare workers for other employment." are there any figures to
> support this? Can we get something from Goodwill that describes the success
> rate of their training programs in a quantitative sense? The statement that
> Goodwill is just using the ability to pay disabled workers less than minimum
> wage so that Goodwill can receive cheap labor to make them more competitive
> is a bold statement that needs a lot of evidence.
>
> Kevin
> ________________________________________
> From: ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org [ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of
> Cynthia Bennett [clb5590 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 8:11 PM
> To: North Carolina Association of Blind Students List
> Subject: Re: [Ncabs] Boycott Goodwill on Facebook!
>
> I would say that based on the fact that there are 45 other
> organizations fighting with us, many of whom represent people with
> disabilities other than blindness, there is a pretty good chance that
> these workers want change. Or, there is a pretty good chance that they
> have been deceptively taught. Some may not even realize that they are
> making less than the minimum wage, and some have probably been taken
> advantage of and made to believe that they aren't worth any more.
>
> Some people might get fired, but I think that percentage will be
> infinitesimal. These workshops aren't doing the work of good
> samaritans. It is evidenced by the amount of revenue of Goodwill
> alone, $4 billion annually, that these are businesses. They can cover
> with a heartfelt message, but the fact is, if they weren't making tons
> of money in the first place, they wouldn't be employing people with
> disabilities. These workshops get preferential contracts, so they are
> guaranteed more work than many other businesses. They use the "we help
> the helpless" propaganda, and they employ people with disabilities to
> make them eligible for these preferential contracts. It is all a huge
> business.
>
> Here is the comprehensive list of supporting organizations. And just
> note that the ACB is also on this list. It isn’t just the NFB blind
> that want change. Also note that 2 sheltered workshop workplaces, BISM
> and the Chicago Lighthouse are on this list. They voluntarily gave up
> their certificates last year. This is a perfect example of how
> supported employment can occur successfully without paying employees
> less than minimum wage. But first, here is the URL for a webpage which
> includes more information and articles than I could ever reference
> about the issue.
> http://nfb.org/fair-wagesCindy
>
> The following groups support the passage of H.R. 3086, the Fair Wages
> for Workers with Disabilities Act of 2011:
>
> ADAPT (formerly known as American Disabled for Attendant Programs Today)
> ADAPT Montana
> Alabama Institute for the Deaf and Blind (AIDB)
> American Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD)
> American Council of the Blind (ACB)
> APSE (formerly known as Association for Persons in Supported Employment)
> Association of Programs for Rural Independent Living (APRIL)
> Association on Higher Education and Disability (AHEAD)
> Autistic Self Advocacy Network (ASAN)
> Blind Industries and Services of Maryland (BISM)
> Blindness: Learning In New Dimensions (BLIND), Inc.
> California State Council on Developmental Disabilities
> Center for People with Disabilities (CPWD)
> Center for Self-Determination
> Center for Social Capital
> Center for the Human Rights of Users and Survivors of Psychiatry (CHRUSP)
> Center for the Visually Impaired (CVI), Atlanta
> Chicago Lighthouse for People Who Are Blind or Visually Impaired
> Collaboration to Promote Self Determination (CPSD)
> Colorado Center for the Blind
> Council of Schools for the Blind (COSB)
> Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund (DREDF)
> Hearing Loss Association of America (HLAA)
> Houston Center for Independent Living
> Independent Living Resource Center San Francisco
> Jewish Guild for the Blind
> Lighthouse for the Blind and Visually Impaired
> Little People of America (LPA)
> Louisiana Center for the Blind
> National Association of the Deaf (NAD)
> National Coalition for Mental Health Recovery (NCMHR)
> National Council of State Agencies for the Blind (NCSAB)
> National Council on Independent Living (NCIL)
> National Disability Institute (NDI)
> National Disability Leadership Alliance (NDLA)
> National Disability Rights Network (NDRN)
> National Down Syndrome Society (NDSS)
> National Down Syndrome Congress (NDSC)
> National Federation of the Blind (NFB)
> National Fragile X Foundation (NFXF)
> Not Dead Yet (NDY)
> Self Advocates Becoming Empowered (SABE)
> Service Employees International Union (SEIU)
> Texas Association of Centers for Independent Living (TACIL)
> TASH
> United Spinal Association
> Xavier Society for the Blind
>
> As of June 14, 2012
>
> Cindy
>
>
> On 6/14/12, Currin, Kevin <kwcurrin at live.unc.edu> wrote:
>> Hey Everyone,
>>
>> The points that Cindy and Justin are making are valid (as well as the
>> points
>> by the NABs President). However, my impression of this investigation is a
>> third party (the NFB) is fighting for rights of people that may or may
>> not
>> want the NFB to fight for them. Is there evidence that the Goodwill
>> workers
>> actually want this issue addressed? If they do, then that's fine, but if
>> not, then what the NFB is doing could potentially cost people their jobs.
>> While people have been saying that the employees will not be fired, it is
>> a
>> possibility that they will be. Also, Justin mentioned that if they were
>> fired that it would give them a reason to work hard to get a job paying
>> at
>> least minimum wage. However, you have to consider that there will be
>> people
>> who will not be motivated and will just be unemployed.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Kevin
>> ________________________________________
>> From: ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org [ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of
>> Cynthia Bennett [clb5590 at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 3:15 AM
>> To: North Carolina Association of Blind Students List
>> Subject: Re: [Ncabs] Boycott Goodwill on Facebook!
>>
>> I know that I personally was not intending to target anyone
>> individually. I think it is wise to investigate things. One main
>> reason why workers are paid subminimum wages is that they supposedly
>> cannot produce the number of items a "normal" person can. One method
>> for figuring a disabled person's wage is to have a nondisabled person
>> produce items for an hour. This is called piece work. For example, a
>> nondisabled person could package parachutes, and let's say they can
>> package 60 in an hour. Then, the disabled person would be timed, and
>> whatever percent of 60 parachutes they could package would determine
>> the percentage of wage they would be paid. So let's say that a
>> nondisabled person got paid $7.25 an hour, and let's say that the
>> disabled person could only package 30 parachutes in that hour. The
>> disabled person would then make half of $7.25 an hour. There are many
>> problems with this. Often times, disabled people are not properly
>> trained. A nondisabled person is assigned to them, undoubtedly this
>> person is making minimum wage, and their soul job is just to help the
>> disabled person if they need it. This means, that from the get go, the
>> disabled person is not taught to be independent or to do their job
>> properly. There is certainly a list of required experiences and
>> qualifications required in any job description, but any new employee
>> that is employed separate from this certificate program is going to
>> receive training the educates them on the unique aspects of their job.
>> Also, many times, appropriate alternative techniques are not
>> investigated. As blind people, we make simple changes to environments
>> and the way we do things to be competitive employees. There are
>> undoubtedly similar techniques that could be employed, that are not,
>> with disabled people, to get their productivity "up to par." The other
>> huge problem with this method of determining wage is that an hour of
>> piece work is hardly accurate to how the nondisabled person would do
>> in general. it often does not take into account fatigue. Also, if
>> someone is not disabled, or even if they are, they wouldn't make extra
>> money for assembling extra parachutes per hour than the norm, so how
>> is it fair?
>>
>> The heart of the issue is that an umblrella idea is applied to many
>> disabled people. They are disabled, so they are not worth minimum
>> wage. Many blindness training centers train blind people so they can
>> leave the training center and be employed somewhere else. However,
>> many sheltered workshops claim to be "training centers" offering the
>> sheltered work as an opportunity for the disabled person to learn how
>> to "work" so they can leave the facility and find other forms of
>> employment. But in one of the articles I read, it was reported that
>> 95% of people working in sheltered workshops remain there for their
>> entire career. So it seems that the "training centers" do not seem to
>> be actually releasing their employees to find other and better forms
>> of employment like they claim.
>>
>> I know there are other methods for determining wage than piece work,
>> and other issues surrounding this argument, but those are just a
>> couple of things I thought mentionable.
>>
>> In regard to the professionalism of making an appointment, I think
>> that really isn't part of the issue. It may be rude, but it is quite
>> more disrespectful to rip your employees off. In any case, news media
>> and lawyers, and even average joe's like us demand information from
>> tons of people and companies without necessarily following protocol. I
>> don't think that that practice is unique to this issue at all.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>> On 6/12/12, Currin, Kevin <kwcurrin at live.unc.edu> wrote:
>>> I did read the two articles on the NCABs list, or else I would not have
>>> commented.
>>>
>>> In one of the articles, the investigators claimed that the Good Will
>>> executive would not speak to them when they admitted that they didn't
>>> make
>>> an appointment. It is unprofessional to walk in someone's office
>>> unannounced
>>> and ask them to produce a statement about something like this. I will
>>> agree
>>> that it is wrong for individuals higher in the company to make salaries
>>> well
>>> above comfortable living standards when other workers aren't making
>>> minimum
>>> wage. However, since many disabled workers are making above minimum
>>> wage,
>>> there may be another criteria for why subminimum wages were paid to
>>> certain
>>> workers, and that would need to be investigated also. Just because I
>>> currently don't support the boycott doesn't mean that I will not support
>>> it
>>> once I find out more information. As a member of the NFB, I feel that I
>>> have
>>> a right to say that I don't currently support something that the NFB
>>> supports.
>>>
>>> Kevin
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org [ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of
>>> Justin Salisbury [PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 5:29 PM
>>> To: North Carolina Association of Blind Students List
>>> Subject: Re: [Ncabs] Boycott Goodwill on Facebook!
>>>
>>> What prompts you to say that it's not complete?  Read the articles.
>>>
>>> Justin M. Salisbury
>>> Class of 2012
>>> B.A. in Mathematics
>>> East Carolina University
>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>>>
>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
>>> change
>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”    —MARGARET MEAD
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org [ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of
>>> Currin, Kevin [kwcurrin at live.unc.edu]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 12:18 PM
>>> To: North Carolina Association of Blind Students List
>>> Subject: Re: [Ncabs] Boycott Goodwill on Facebook!
>>>
>>> Hello Everyone,
>>>
>>> I do not support this boycott. The investigation is not complete and I'm
>>> not
>>> convinced that it is even a necessary investigation.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Kevin
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org [ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of
>>> Justin Salisbury [PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 12:06 PM
>>> To: North Carolina Association of Blind Students List
>>> Subject: Re: [Ncabs] Boycott Goodwill on Facebook!
>>>
>>> Here are two very brief articles that explain it thoroughly and
>>> concisely:
>>>
>>> http://nfb.org/national-federation-blind-urges-boycott-goodwill-industries
>>>
>>> http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/208068/189/Goodwill-Pays-Disabled-Employees-Less-than-Minimum-Wage
>>>
>>> Justin M. Salisbury
>>> Class of 2012
>>> B.A. in Mathematics
>>> East Carolina University
>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>>>
>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
>>> change
>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”    —MARGARET MEAD
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org [ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of
>>> Sean
>>> Mealin [spmealin at ncsu.edu]
>>> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 8:38 PM
>>> To: North Carolina Association of Blind Students List
>>> Subject: Re: [Ncabs] Boycott Goodwill on Facebook!
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I may have missed the email because things have been chaotic on this
>>> end; can I get an extremely quick rundown on why we are doing this?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Sean
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/11/12, Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu> wrote:
>>>> Fellow Federationists:
>>>>
>>>> I have created a Facebook event for our boycott of Goodwill Industries
>>>> International, Inc.  It can be found at the following link:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.facebook.com/events/453015078044368/
>>>>
>>>> Please join the boycott and encourage everyone you know to do the same!
>>>>
>>>> Yours in Federationism,
>>>>
>>>> Justin Salisbury
>>>> President
>>>> North Carolina Association of Blind Students
>>>>
>>>> Justin M. Salisbury
>>>> Class of 2012
>>>> B.A. in Mathematics
>>>> East Carolina University
>>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>>>>
>>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
>>>> change
>>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”    —MARGARET
>>>> MEAD
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sean Mealin
>>> spmealin at ncsu.edu
>>> (336) 772-2507
>>> http://www4.ncsu.edu/~spmealin/
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Cynthia Bennett
>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>>
>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>> 828.989.5383
>>
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>>
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>
>
> --
> Cynthia Bennett
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>
> clb5590 at gmail.com
> 828.989.5383
>
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-- 
Cynthia Bennett
B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383