[Ncabs] Boycott Goodwill on Facebook!

Fri Jun 15 17:30:56 UTC 2012

Kevin:

What other data do you want to see?  If you can figure out what it is that you want to see and call the national office at 410.659.9314 and use the dial-by-name directory to talk to Anil Lewis or really anyone who works there, you will be much more successful in finding the data than you will be here on the NCABS listserv.

Like Cindy said, if Goodwill had data that crushed our argument, wouldn't it be in their best interests to put it out there for the world to see what fools we were?  They have issued a statement, and we responded right back.  I have updated the Facebook event to include links to their statement and our press release responding to the Goodwill statement.

Justin

Justin M. Salisbury
Class of 2012
B.A. in Mathematics
East Carolina University
president at alumni.ecu.edu

“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”    —MARGARET MEAD
________________________________________
From: ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org [ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Currin, Kevin [kwcurrin at live.unc.edu]
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 11:52 AM
To: North Carolina Association of Blind Students List
Subject: Re: [Ncabs] Boycott Goodwill on Facebook!

I've seen a lot of general statements so far such as "these work places don't prepare workers for other employment." are there any figures to support this? Can we get something from Goodwill that describes the success rate of their training programs in a quantitative sense? The statement that Goodwill is just using the ability to pay disabled workers less than minimum wage so that Goodwill can receive cheap labor to make them more competitive is a bold statement that needs a lot of evidence.

Kevin
________________________________________
From: ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org [ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Cynthia Bennett [clb5590 at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 8:11 PM
To: North Carolina Association of Blind Students List
Subject: Re: [Ncabs] Boycott Goodwill on Facebook!

I would say that based on the fact that there are 45 other
organizations fighting with us, many of whom represent people with
disabilities other than blindness, there is a pretty good chance that
these workers want change. Or, there is a pretty good chance that they
have been deceptively taught. Some may not even realize that they are
making less than the minimum wage, and some have probably been taken
advantage of and made to believe that they aren't worth any more.

Some people might get fired, but I think that percentage will be
infinitesimal. These workshops aren't doing the work of good
samaritans. It is evidenced by the amount of revenue of Goodwill
alone, $4 billion annually, that these are businesses. They can cover
with a heartfelt message, but the fact is, if they weren't making tons
of money in the first place, they wouldn't be employing people with
disabilities. These workshops get preferential contracts, so they are
guaranteed more work than many other businesses. They use the "we help
the helpless" propaganda, and they employ people with disabilities to
make them eligible for these preferential contracts. It is all a huge
business.

Here is the comprehensive list of supporting organizations. And just
note that the ACB is also on this list. It isn’t just the NFB blind
that want change. Also note that 2 sheltered workshop workplaces, BISM
and the Chicago Lighthouse are on this list. They voluntarily gave up
their certificates last year. This is a perfect example of how
supported employment can occur successfully without paying employees
less than minimum wage. But first, here is the URL for a webpage which
includes more information and articles than I could ever reference
about the issue.
http://nfb.org/fair-wagesCindy

The following groups support the passage of H.R. 3086, the Fair Wages
for Workers with Disabilities Act of 2011:

ADAPT (formerly known as American Disabled for Attendant Programs Today)
ADAPT Montana
Alabama Institute for the Deaf and Blind (AIDB)
American Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD)
American Council of the Blind (ACB)
APSE (formerly known as Association for Persons in Supported Employment)
Association of Programs for Rural Independent Living (APRIL)
Association on Higher Education and Disability (AHEAD)
Autistic Self Advocacy Network (ASAN)
Blind Industries and Services of Maryland (BISM)
Blindness: Learning In New Dimensions (BLIND), Inc.
California State Council on Developmental Disabilities
Center for People with Disabilities (CPWD)
Center for Self-Determination
Center for Social Capital
Center for the Human Rights of Users and Survivors of Psychiatry (CHRUSP)
Center for the Visually Impaired (CVI), Atlanta
Chicago Lighthouse for People Who Are Blind or Visually Impaired
Collaboration to Promote Self Determination (CPSD)
Colorado Center for the Blind
Council of Schools for the Blind (COSB)
Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund (DREDF)
Hearing Loss Association of America (HLAA)
Houston Center for Independent Living
Independent Living Resource Center San Francisco
Jewish Guild for the Blind
Lighthouse for the Blind and Visually Impaired
Little People of America (LPA)
Louisiana Center for the Blind
National Association of the Deaf (NAD)
National Coalition for Mental Health Recovery (NCMHR)
National Council of State Agencies for the Blind (NCSAB)
National Council on Independent Living (NCIL)
National Disability Institute (NDI)
National Disability Leadership Alliance (NDLA)
National Disability Rights Network (NDRN)
National Down Syndrome Society (NDSS)
National Down Syndrome Congress (NDSC)
National Federation of the Blind (NFB)
National Fragile X Foundation (NFXF)
Not Dead Yet (NDY)
Self Advocates Becoming Empowered (SABE)
Service Employees International Union (SEIU)
Texas Association of Centers for Independent Living (TACIL)
TASH
United Spinal Association
Xavier Society for the Blind

As of June 14, 2012

Cindy

On 6/14/12, Currin, Kevin <kwcurrin at live.unc.edu> wrote:
> Hey Everyone,
>
> The points that Cindy and Justin are making are valid (as well as the points
> by the NABs President). However, my impression of this investigation is a
> third party (the NFB) is fighting for rights of people that may or may not
> want the NFB to fight for them. Is there evidence that the Goodwill workers
> actually want this issue addressed? If they do, then that's fine, but if
> not, then what the NFB is doing could potentially cost people their jobs.
> While people have been saying that the employees will not be fired, it is a
> possibility that they will be. Also, Justin mentioned that if they were
> fired that it would give them a reason to work hard to get a job paying at
> least minimum wage. However, you have to consider that there will be people
> who will not be motivated and will just be unemployed.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kevin
> ________________________________________
> From: ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org [ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of
> Cynthia Bennett [clb5590 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 3:15 AM
> To: North Carolina Association of Blind Students List
> Subject: Re: [Ncabs] Boycott Goodwill on Facebook!
>
> I know that I personally was not intending to target anyone
> individually. I think it is wise to investigate things. One main
> reason why workers are paid subminimum wages is that they supposedly
> cannot produce the number of items a "normal" person can. One method
> for figuring a disabled person's wage is to have a nondisabled person
> produce items for an hour. This is called piece work. For example, a
> nondisabled person could package parachutes, and let's say they can
> package 60 in an hour. Then, the disabled person would be timed, and
> whatever percent of 60 parachutes they could package would determine
> the percentage of wage they would be paid. So let's say that a
> nondisabled person got paid $7.25 an hour, and let's say that the
> disabled person could only package 30 parachutes in that hour. The
> disabled person would then make half of $7.25 an hour. There are many
> problems with this. Often times, disabled people are not properly
> trained. A nondisabled person is assigned to them, undoubtedly this
> person is making minimum wage, and their soul job is just to help the
> disabled person if they need it. This means, that from the get go, the
> disabled person is not taught to be independent or to do their job
> properly. There is certainly a list of required experiences and
> qualifications required in any job description, but any new employee
> that is employed separate from this certificate program is going to
> receive training the educates them on the unique aspects of their job.
> Also, many times, appropriate alternative techniques are not
> investigated. As blind people, we make simple changes to environments
> and the way we do things to be competitive employees. There are
> undoubtedly similar techniques that could be employed, that are not,
> with disabled people, to get their productivity "up to par." The other
> huge problem with this method of determining wage is that an hour of
> piece work is hardly accurate to how the nondisabled person would do
> in general. it often does not take into account fatigue. Also, if
> someone is not disabled, or even if they are, they wouldn't make extra
> money for assembling extra parachutes per hour than the norm, so how
> is it fair?
>
> The heart of the issue is that an umblrella idea is applied to many
> disabled people. They are disabled, so they are not worth minimum
> wage. Many blindness training centers train blind people so they can
> leave the training center and be employed somewhere else. However,
> many sheltered workshops claim to be "training centers" offering the
> sheltered work as an opportunity for the disabled person to learn how
> to "work" so they can leave the facility and find other forms of
> employment. But in one of the articles I read, it was reported that
> 95% of people working in sheltered workshops remain there for their
> entire career. So it seems that the "training centers" do not seem to
> be actually releasing their employees to find other and better forms
> of employment like they claim.
>
> I know there are other methods for determining wage than piece work,
> and other issues surrounding this argument, but those are just a
> couple of things I thought mentionable.
>
> In regard to the professionalism of making an appointment, I think
> that really isn't part of the issue. It may be rude, but it is quite
> more disrespectful to rip your employees off. In any case, news media
> and lawyers, and even average joe's like us demand information from
> tons of people and companies without necessarily following protocol. I
> don't think that that practice is unique to this issue at all.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 6/12/12, Currin, Kevin <kwcurrin at live.unc.edu> wrote:
>> I did read the two articles on the NCABs list, or else I would not have
>> commented.
>>
>> In one of the articles, the investigators claimed that the Good Will
>> executive would not speak to them when they admitted that they didn't
>> make
>> an appointment. It is unprofessional to walk in someone's office
>> unannounced
>> and ask them to produce a statement about something like this. I will
>> agree
>> that it is wrong for individuals higher in the company to make salaries
>> well
>> above comfortable living standards when other workers aren't making
>> minimum
>> wage. However, since many disabled workers are making above minimum wage,
>> there may be another criteria for why subminimum wages were paid to
>> certain
>> workers, and that would need to be investigated also. Just because I
>> currently don't support the boycott doesn't mean that I will not support
>> it
>> once I find out more information. As a member of the NFB, I feel that I
>> have
>> a right to say that I don't currently support something that the NFB
>> supports.
>>
>> Kevin
>> ________________________________________
>> From: ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org [ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of
>> Justin Salisbury [PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu]
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 5:29 PM
>> To: North Carolina Association of Blind Students List
>> Subject: Re: [Ncabs] Boycott Goodwill on Facebook!
>>
>> What prompts you to say that it's not complete?  Read the articles.
>>
>> Justin M. Salisbury
>> Class of 2012
>> B.A. in Mathematics
>> East Carolina University
>> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>>
>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
>> change
>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”    —MARGARET MEAD
>> ________________________________________
>> From: ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org [ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of
>> Currin, Kevin [kwcurrin at live.unc.edu]
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 12:18 PM
>> To: North Carolina Association of Blind Students List
>> Subject: Re: [Ncabs] Boycott Goodwill on Facebook!
>>
>> Hello Everyone,
>>
>> I do not support this boycott. The investigation is not complete and I'm
>> not
>> convinced that it is even a necessary investigation.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Kevin
>> ________________________________________
>> From: ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org [ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of
>> Justin Salisbury [PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu]
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 12:06 PM
>> To: North Carolina Association of Blind Students List
>> Subject: Re: [Ncabs] Boycott Goodwill on Facebook!
>>
>> Here are two very brief articles that explain it thoroughly and
>> concisely:
>>
>> http://nfb.org/national-federation-blind-urges-boycott-goodwill-industries
>>
>> http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/208068/189/Goodwill-Pays-Disabled-Employees-Less-than-Minimum-Wage
>>
>> Justin M. Salisbury
>> Class of 2012
>> B.A. in Mathematics
>> East Carolina University
>> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>>
>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
>> change
>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”    —MARGARET MEAD
>> ________________________________________
>> From: ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org [ncabs-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of
>> Sean
>> Mealin [spmealin at ncsu.edu]
>> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 8:38 PM
>> To: North Carolina Association of Blind Students List
>> Subject: Re: [Ncabs] Boycott Goodwill on Facebook!
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I may have missed the email because things have been chaotic on this
>> end; can I get an extremely quick rundown on why we are doing this?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Sean
>>
>>
>> On 6/11/12, Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu> wrote:
>>> Fellow Federationists:
>>>
>>> I have created a Facebook event for our boycott of Goodwill Industries
>>> International, Inc.  It can be found at the following link:
>>>
>>> http://www.facebook.com/events/453015078044368/
>>>
>>> Please join the boycott and encourage everyone you know to do the same!
>>>
>>> Yours in Federationism,
>>>
>>> Justin Salisbury
>>> President
>>> North Carolina Association of Blind Students
>>>
>>> Justin M. Salisbury
>>> Class of 2012
>>> B.A. in Mathematics
>>> East Carolina University
>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>>>
>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
>>> change
>>> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”    —MARGARET MEAD
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Sean Mealin
>> spmealin at ncsu.edu
>> (336) 772-2507
>> http://www4.ncsu.edu/~spmealin/
>>
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>
>
> --
> Cynthia Bennett
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>
> clb5590 at gmail.com
> 828.989.5383
>
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--
Cynthia Bennett
B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383

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