[NFB-Braille-Discussion] Slate and Stylus
Debbie Gabe
dgabe808 at gmail.com
Thu Jun 10 00:51:41 UTC 2021
When I was first learning to slate, I had to build up "slate muscles" in my hand. That took a little time, but now no problem with sore hand muscles.
-----Original Message-----
From: NFB-Braille-Discussion <nfb-braille-discussion-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tina Sohl via NFB-Braille-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 1:25 PM
To: NFB Braille Discussion List <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Tina Sohl <tinabir80 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NFB-Braille-Discussion] Slate and Stylus
I figured out the slate kind of on my own. Just threw trial and error. I guess I think of it kind of the way Allison does. I've still use it, we still have several here. I can't do it for very long because like others have said it cramps my hands up but we do have several here and I am very glad to have the skill and think it's something that everyone should have
On Wed, Jun 9, 2021, 4:17 PM Allison Hilliker via NFB-Braille-Discussion < nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I know this is how I'm supposed to view the slate and stylus, as
> writing from right to left, not backwards. But that just does not make sense to me.
> It never has. I learned to slate in maybe 6th grade or so, after
> having already mastered the Perkins. As I remember it, my teacher
> tried to explain it as writing from right to left, but that confused
> me more, not less. I just knew, instinctually, that that would be writing backwards.
> Because to me it was. Dots 1, 2, and 3 aren't located on the right
> side of a braille cell. They're just not. And if I have to write them
> on the right side of a slate cell, then that's backwards to me. If the
> left hand dots are now on the right side, they're backwards, and my letters will be too.
> Learning to slate was tricky for me because I had to translate each
> letter backwards. N is ed, s is wh, p is th, and so on. It was tedius
> and tricky, but ultimately doable. I've never been a power slater or
> anything, but I was fairly efficient at it as a young adult. I even
> brailled my notes for foreign language classes in high school and
> college cuz I just didn't like how the non-english languages came out
> on my braille note takers at the time. And it was my backup for years,
> riding in my purse with me everywhere, in case of a tech failure, of
> which I've had many. These days, now that I'm a working mom, I carry
> as little as possible with me, so don't use my slate nearly as often
> as I used to, but I have fond memories of it overall, despite my having to learn to reverse all signs.
>
> Anyway, it doesn't matter much I guess. Either way, I learned to use a
> slate and stylus, backwards and all. However I did it, I got there. I
> only care about how to explain the slate and stylus to others because
> I'm now homeschooling two upcoming braille readers, my two preschool
> children. And I can't figure out how I'm supposed to present the slate
> and stylus to them. Cuz my oldest thinks a lot like me, and I could
> see her saying the letters are backwards, no matter how I present it
> to her. She's only five and is honestly still confused about how the
> number dots in a braille cell slant sideways on a brailler, so the few
> times she's played with a slate and stylus, she hasn't seemed any more
> or less confused by it than anything else braille, but I'm not sure
> how I can explain it in a way that will make sense, when I myself have
> only managed to write on a slate by translating every single braille symbol in my head as I write. So advice welcome.
> Thanks!
>
> Allison
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NFB-Braille-Discussion
> <nfb-braille-discussion-bounces at nfbnet.org>
> On Behalf Of Ramona via NFB-Braille-Discussion
> Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 2:33 PM
> To: Pauline Smith via NFB-Braille-Discussion <
> nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Ramona <walhoframona at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NFB-Braille-Discussion] Slate and Stylus
>
> People have usually heard the word backwards before they ever get
> their hands on a slate, and I just tell them to erase it from their
> Braille vocabulary. Reading starts from the left, writing from the wright.
> Progression is the same through the words, lines, and pages. I often
> have them start with a row of c's, then A's, B's, then L's, G's, and
> X's. By that time students have a little control of their styluses.
> Sometimes a board slate is better if you can find one with children
> who have trouble lining up the next position down the page. If they
> get comfortable with removing the paper and putting it back in so they
> can look at what they are writing, that sometimes also helps them
> understand the progression emotionally and not have to analize it any
> more. Sighted people who learn Braille often like to turn a page with
> the dots down and copy the letters or symbols, and that can also help
> with the progression. As you would expect each student puts his or her
> own spin on what is happening, but most get past the awkwardness
> pretty fast. The more they write, the quicker it happens. Contrary to
> popular belief, I have found that the younger they begin, the better,
> as long as pressing through the paper is not too hard for them.
>
> RamonaOn Jun 9, 2021 2:42 PM, Pauline Smith via NFB-Braille-Discussion
> < nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > Good Afternoon,
> >
> > I am in strong agreement with Debbie and Ramona. I use a slate
> > regularly. I use it almost daily since my brailler is not working
> > properly. Starting in about late elementary school, it was the only
> > permanent way I had to write Braille outside of school. When I was
> > in school, we could borrow a brailler from the resource room to
> > write out homework and bring it back the following day o Monday if
> > it was a weekend. The only students who had a brailler at home all
> > of the time were those whose parents or relatives could afford to
> > buy one. I finally got my brailler from the state rehab system after high school.
> >
> > Although I try to avoid saying the word "backwards" when teaching
> > slate writing, students usually describe it that way because that's
> > how they see it, since it is the opposite of how one writes or types
> > normally. Any tips on how to get across the concept so that it is
> > not their automatic response would be helpful.
> >
> > Pauline
> >
> > On 6/9/21, Debbie Gabe via NFB-Braille-Discussion
> > <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > > Ramoneon
> > > Love your response! I totally agree. No one would ever tell a
> > > sighted person to stop using their pen or pencil - ever!
> > > When I taught braille, I would not allow anyone to use the words
> > > opposite, reverse, mirror image or such when discussing the slate
> > > and stylus. I sharpened my own stylus because it made slating
> > > faster, but the dots are smaller. And you had to be careful that
> > > the point was evenly sharpened all around, or it would "stick", so
> > > I only taught that to advanced students. The only time I use a
> > > very dull
> stylus is when I make labels on dymo tape.
> > >
> > > Thank you for being so eloquent in your discussion.
> > > Debbie Gabe
> > > NFB of Hawaiihe
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: NFB-Braille-Discussion
> > > <nfb-braille-discussion-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of kg 6sxy
> > > (kg6sxy) via NFB-Braille-Discussion
> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 5:42 AM
> > > To: NFB Braille Discussion <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
> > > Cc: kg 6sxy (kg6sxy) <kg6sxy at gmail.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [NFB-Braille-Discussion] Slate and Stylus
> > >
> > > Hello Ramona,
> > >
> > > Happy to read your feedback. I fell in love with braille from the
> > > moment I started learning it last year. I agree, when you change
> > > the way you think about the leading edge and the numbers of the
> > > dots within a cell, it reduces a lot of the thinking involved
> > > which is really useful. I only started doing that yesterday and I
> > > already feel more relaxed while writing with a slate and stylus
> > > and no more
> oddly dotted cells that mean nothing at all.
> > >
> > > I do prefer the backup of having a slate and stylus with me for
> > > times when my iPhone isn't convenient. I've been lucky enough not
> > > to have a dead battery when I needed it but I also carry a spare
> > > battery pack with me everywhere. I've tried the braille screen
> > > input but I have yet to be able to enter anything reliably that
> > > way;
> still worth a try now and then.
> > >
> > > No lack of motivation here, just endurance.
> > >
> > > Take care,
> > > Tony
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Jun 9, 2021, at 10:33 AM, Ramona via NFB-Braille-Discussion
> > >> <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> The word backwards should be obliterated from your vocabulary
> > >> when thinking about or using the Braille slate. You are not doing
> > >> anything backwards. Teachers who use that word should be retrained!
> > >> You start from the beginning of the line and write to the end,
> > >> just as you read. a and b are on the first side of the cell, etc.
> > >> You start at the opposite end of the line from reading and punch
> > >> the dots downward, but it is an obvious progression. Nobody
> > >> should be permitted to reverse symbols indidually ever for any
> > >> purpose. It adds
> unnecessary stress and confusion.
> > >>
> > >> A sharp stylus can make a big difference! If the point becomes
> > >> rough, then find a buffer and smooth it out! The finer the file
> > >> to sharpen, the less rough the point will be. A nail buffer can
> > >> help smooth out the point if needed. I took notes on the slate
> > >> throughout college, and had more complete notes than most sighted
> > >> people. I participated in transcribing a Russian-English
> > >> dictionary on the board slate since most of us did not have
> > >> Braille writers, and
> it was before computers.
> > >>
> > >> I do not use the slate as much as I used to, but would not be
> > >> without it, because of portability. I find it much faster than
> > >> entering data on my i-phone! And it never loses charge or power!
> > >> Yes, you can function without a slate and stylus, but why punish
> > >> blind people by depriving them of a valuable tool. They are not
> > >> less intelligent or less deterous than fifty or more years ago. I
> > >> taught myself to write with the slate and stylus because I was
> > >> bored one summer when I was a kid. The plastic slate is cheap.
> > >> Any blind person can have one free from the NFB. I can tell you
> > >> many stories about people who have become very proficient with
> > >> the slate and stylus, so find your motivation and just do it! I
> > >> am glad to offer moral support or other suggestions if wanted,
> > >> but motivation is the most essential ingredient! If you think
> > >> this is one of my
> soapboxes, you are right!
> > >>
> > >> RamonaOn Jun 8, 2021 6:47 PM, Ellen Ringlein via
> > >> NFB-Braille-Discussion <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org
> > >> <mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Sharpening the stylus is one of those things that not everyone
> > >>> agrees with. I personally would rather have a stylus that
> > >>> already has a good point. It is easy to screw up a stylus with
> > >>> improper sharpening, which then can tare paper and consequently
> > >>> slow you down when Brailling. Not all styluses are equal in
> > >>> terms of how
> narrowly the point is constructed.
> > >>>
> > >>> Cordially,
> > >>>
> > >>> Ellen
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: NFB-Braille-Discussion
> > >>> [mailto:nfb-braille-discussion-bounces at nfbnet.org
> > >>> <mailto:nfb-braille-discussion-bounces at nfbnet.org>] On Behalf Of
> > >>> kg 6sxy (kg6sxy) via NFB-Braille-Discussion
> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2021 7:15 PM
> > >>> To: James K <jakon22 at gmail.com <mailto:jakon22 at gmail.com>>
> > >>> Cc: kg 6sxy (kg6sxy) <kg6sxy at gmail.com
> > >>> <mailto:kg6sxy at gmail.com>>; NFB Braille Discussion
> > >>> <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org
> > >>> <mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>>
> > >>> Subject: Re: [NFB-Braille-Discussion] Slate and Stylus
> > >>>
> > >>> Thank you James!
> > >>>
> > >>> Won't sharpening the stylus point end up making more holes than
> > >>> indentations?
> > >>>
> > >>> I do like the prospect of having a small slate and stylus in my
> > >>> pocket wherever I go. You never know when it will come in handy.
> > >>>
> > >>> Take care,
> > >>> Tony
> > >>>
> > >>>> On Jun 8, 2021, at 7:10 PM, James K <jakon22 at gmail.com
> > >>>> <mailto:jakon22 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> hello, I love the slate and use it daily! the thoughts
> > >>>> presented about using the dot number order of letters and
> > >>>> symbols will help reduce confusion when writing. also,
> > >>>> sharpening the stylus point can make for easier writing and
> > >>>> less hand strain. use a whetstone or fine gri't sandpaper and
> > >>>> just rotate the point of the stylus while sharpening. good luck
> > >>>> and you'll find the slate a handy device. just like the blind person's pencil.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> On Jun 8, 2021, at 5:48 PM, kg 6sxy (kg6sxy) via
> > >>>>> NFB-Braille-Discussion <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org
> > >>>>> <mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
> > >>>>> <mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org
> > >>>>> <mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Hello Don,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> That is great advice. I've been thinking in terms of dot
> > >>>>> numbers for a while but not thinking in terms of the closest
> > >>>>> line to the direction I'm working, left to right for reading
> > >>>>> and
> right to left for writing.
> > >>>>> Looking forward to seeing the difference it makes.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Thank you!
> > >>>>> Tony
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Jun 8, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Donald Winiecki via
> > >>>>>> NFB-Braille-Discussion <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org
> > >>>>>> <mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
> > >>>>>> <mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org
> > >>>>>> <mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Hi,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> While others will have valuable things to say about your
> > >>>>>> experiences with neuropathy and how you could cope, I will
> > >>>>>> encourage you to try your best to avoid thinking that the
> > >>>>>> slate and stylus requires you to think the braille is backwards.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Instead, focus on the numbers of the braille dots in a symbol.
> > >>>>>> When you're reading, the dots are numbered top to bottom
> > >>>>>> starting with the column closest to the front of the line.
> > >>>>>> When you're using the slate and stylus, the dot numbers are
> > >>>>>> exactly the same, and numbered from top to bottom starting
> > >>>>>> with the column closest to the front of the line. In doing so
> > >>>>>> you're keeping your focus on the dot numbers and your bearing
> > >>>>>> to the front of the line. It's only a shift in where the
> > >>>>>> front of the
> line is placed!
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I can say from experience that once you get used to thinking
> > >>>>>> in terms of dot numbers and the front of the line, it gets
> > >>>>>> much easier to develop proficiency with the slate and stylus.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Best,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> _don [image: ]
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 4:21 PM kg 6sxy (kg6sxy) via
> > >>>>>>> NFB-Braille-Discussion < nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org
> > >>>>>>> <mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
> > >>>>>>> <mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org
> > >>>>>>> <mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Hello,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I just joined this list today and didn't a little looking
> > >>>>>>> through the archives but didn't see anything in the past few
> > >>>>>>> months about slate and stylus use.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Does anyone still use a slate and stylus that has found a
> > >>>>>>> comfortable stylus to use with arthritis or neuropathy? I'm
> > >>>>>>> working on getting my brain to properly flip braille for a
> > >>>>>>> slate but I find that the couple of styluses I have are hard
> > >>>>>>> to use after a line or two.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Take care,
> > >>>>>>> Tony
> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>>> NFB-Braille-Discussion mailing list
> > >>>>>>> NFB-Braille-Discussion at nfbnet.org
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> > >>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fnfbnet.org
> > >>>>> %2
> > >>>>> fmailman%2foptions%2fnfb-braille-discussion_nfbnet.or&c=E,1,xh
> > >>>>> 4a
> > >>>>> 7dkZTrCpPp6gkV85-PcYN8PRGg_pgqnb9Z0TEAwJg4lIXCRI5LrYrd00TBR9rG
> > >>>>> 6j
> > >>>>> J4V7cBvqsbmTkv2LRWTxaEfEZy2WoziCanUMBeE,&typo=1
> > >>>>> g/j> akon22%40gmail.com
> > >>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2f40gmail.co
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> > >>>>> h5
> > >>>>> 1no4og4uOI_bxkUzCdvxreLL9cAjNuMLl-5lYVJ0P85V2Vj2duub50eRKBPrFA
> > >>>>> QB
> > >>>>> C&typo=1>
> > >>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fnfbnet.org
> > >>>>> %2
> > >>>>> fmailman%2foptions%2fnfb-braille-discussion_nfbnet.or&c=E,1,k4
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> > >>>>> xC
> > >>>>> IS-CHTJ6hR4BxgZtPiplk7389TUN10suSgq-K9ordZzunoN2&typo=1
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> > >>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fnfbnet.org
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> > >>>>> fmailman%2foptions%2fnfb-braille-discussion_nfbnet.or&c=E,1,TK
> > >>>>> Jv
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> > >>>>> 70
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> > >>>>> g/> jakon22%40gmail.com
> > >>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2f40gmail.co
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> > >>>>> 2f&c=E,1,vNamousb2jpSklA0BTzArXc1kZz3jllNa3E3TieLnpUPBRYE9t2KI
> > >>>>> Ms
> > >>>>> rdcQbnS_8EDR8mKll2kreZoj3Q-zsD82unTkUfCgQRCCF79jB7n-img,,&typo
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> > >>> zEzRxSmk0kGpuQEVjbth5LzUTvi9JUJzXDXqlrvcKtVWwPANQx2tzW6uiyOYE5Bb
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> > >>> TKHewaSMFMD2X_QGGVSylswJB_2G8dEZZRcpwl25Tqepop-eokPuU8dXTCIc0xt-
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> > >>> UEuMpP-AQYWZWRfk7o0aTu_n9MAwZKOdtNusgIquv-iptA,&typo=1
> > >>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fnfbnet.org%2
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> > >>> XA-rxWH-gLfiU7DDZkHT8hAoIIcTQF3NrhVnf7X_CBCCm85DS6EsaSkA1RuIZJxC
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> > >>> u_kN-3qLleHtryg7K8iJh9Mz8YqGmmjk_PbKQYh7PphQ,,&typo=1
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> > >>> fm
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> > >>> r89eSKY_ZGzBmJe8ZNnI5s8IExx0jAZEcT43pW4jct8eCNFxlALpgzhBK96VejjT
> > >>> EA
> > >>> mWfFP9jtmA5xytESIVxwrj0XRlbuwGVnZY1FEqm1Wh0VQC2hZOcWr5&typo=1
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> > >> lman%2foptions%2fnfb-braille-discussion_nfbnet.org%2fkg&c=E,1,hhJ
> > >> 8K
> > >> bZteN3icCM2a1-XWOE4zHtf4qBIDp3_C99-0JpmU9Q_tHTPIo_wAEr-4B4ZFOjVsH
> > >> B5
> > >> HKDvQN2wWbPyu-2ZKh53sMoK0ewSEE6Gj95Yoz_Y-ssTMxY,&typo=1
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> > > .com&c=E,1,OBx2zSoT1Z2_BtGZZHwVwZPO83xX2mcs8fNg04gdQnKOZ_hx8qLVGZr
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