[nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication

Mon Jun 15 00:43:23 UTC 2009

John,
A lot of the time I am around people who have promised to learn sign 
language but never actually do in the end. They need the motivation to do 
so; setting an obligation for them to learn is like telling your 
foreign-born wife who may not be fluent in English to learn more as a 
preclude to "good relationship". My girlfriend's parents know absolutely no 
sign language except a few signs for basic things, and 95% of the time 
communication is done with them fingerspelling and me voicing. Personally, 
forcing people to learn sign language as a condition for developing a 
relationship is very counterproductive, because the nonsigner simply often 
feels no responsibility because his communication mode is "normal" in 
his/her mind; the same may be true for someone who is deaf/hard of hearing, 
and each must find ways to enhance communication without setting conditions. 
I fully respect you, John, but I had trouble with your approach with others, 
and that approach simply may reflect personality styles and cultural 
expectations that vary.
I have a lot of deaf-blind and deaf friends whose parents don't know sign 
language, and this is really unfortunate and makes communication 
choppy/ineffective. But forcing relatives to learn is like pushing them to 
the edge and risking alienating them. Finding other ways to communicate 
motivates them to learn sign language. A lot of the time I meet people they 
tell me they want to learn sign language but don't have the energy and time 
because they grew up hearing.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Lee Clark" <johnlee at clarktouch.com>
To: "'NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List'" <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication


> Haben:
>
> While most of the social gatherings we find ourselves in are all signers,
> there are some in which there are some nonsigners.  Take my wife's side of
> the family.  Her father doesn't sign much nor does two of her five aunts.
> Even in those situations, no one has any special interpreting obligations.
> If my father-in-law wants to develop a relationship with me, he has to 
> learn
> to sign more.  We do not allow him to use my mother-in-law to talk with us
> at any length.  Unfortunately, he has never made any serious moves to 
> learn
> more.  The result is that my wife and her father do not have a 
> relationship.
> It's his choice, really.  early in my marriage, I made overtures, but none
> of them led to anything.
>
> This might as well be, because if someone really wants to have a
> relationship with you, you two will naturally strive to communicate with
> each other and do what it takes.  If there is a relationship in which 
> there
> is an interpreter is always used, that means one of the parties wants the
> relationship more than the other.  I've known some people who have only 
> one
> person in the family who interprets between the two languages, and one or
> both of the sides would latch onto that person and take advantage of the
> interpreting instead of making any progress toward communicating with each
> other independently.  I think this is sick.  My wifee and I don't want
> anyone to have this role, or have this as an excuse to avoid making their
> own efforts.  By adhering to this principle, we've had several family
> members make their choices and make progress.  Yes, some still refuse, but
> that's their loss.  I mean, the very fact they're refusing tells you they
> are probably not worth having a serious relationship with anyway.
>
> So you gotta determine what boundaries you're going to establish, then you
> just let the consequent dynamic take care of itself.  It may mean letting 
> go
> of some hopes that some would respect you--you would be very right to hope
> this very much, but it's their choice, and you have a choice, too, whether
> to let that go or bleed.
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Haben Girma
> Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:21 PM
> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication
>
>
> Thanks for explaining all of that, John. In trying to imagine the
> situation, I had totally loverlooked that fact that in an all-signing
> group anyone could interpret what the rest of the group is saying. Then
> your wife doesn't have any special powers of communication that members
> of the group would lack. All can sign, and all can communicate with you.
>
> Haben
>
> John Lee Clark wrote:
>> Haben:
>>
>> Sure, I find myself in groups and I often host them.  However, ninety
>> percent of the conversations are between two people.  They just do it in 
>> a
>> group setting.  It is rare for a true group conversation to happen that
>> includes the group as a whole.
>>
>> Yes, I would talk with the people on either side of me, but I also have 
>> an
>> extra chair so that anyone else can come over and sit there to talk
> directly
>> with me.  There may be brief spurts of interpreting involved, such as two
>> other people having a conversation and one of them says that I know
>> something about something and asks me through one of the people sitting
> next
>> to me.  If it happens that this question leads to a whole new 
>> conversation
>> that is getting deeper, I ask the person to come and sit in that chair so
> we
>> can continue the conversation.
>>
>> When I am the host, I'd be too busy for a serious conversation during the
>> meal.  So while I am attending to everyone's needs, I'[d just have short
>> conversations with everyone in turn as I go around.  I'll have time for
>> longer conversations later in the evening.
>>
>> In the event there is a real group discussion or when someone is
> addressing
>> the group as a whole, I might have the person next to me at that moment
>> interpret for me, or I'd sit next to the person who is signing to the
> whole
>> group, meaning there's no interpreter.  My wife has sometimes interpreted
> in
>> this scenario, but not often.  We rarely sit next to each other.  After
> all,
>> we are together every day at home.  But if she does interpret, it would 
>> be
>> because she happens to be in the right spot or has offered to, but anyone
>> else in the group could be the same.  It's not like she has a special or
>> extra responsibility for me.  Just anyone would do, and it's just part of
>> the flow.
>>
>> If there are other deaf-blind people in the group, or the group is all
>> deafblind, things may be different, but even in the entirely deafblind
>> group, interpreting may come up.  I've often interpreted myself, as a
> relay
>> interpreter or a chain interpreter.
>>
>> Remember that one principle is that whatever I get myself involved in, it
> is
>> something I can do on my own just as well as with my wife.  If it's
>> something where I would have trouble on my own, I'd make other
> arrangements
>> even if my wife is involved.  This is to say, whether or not my wife is
>> there should make absolutely no difference.
>>
>> Does this help?
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
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