[nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication

Mon Jun 15 01:08:55 UTC 2009

Mussie:

The reason I referred to modes of communication and NOT degrees of
deaf-blindness is that the seating arrangements actually depend on the
communication mode.  Degree of DBness almost has nothing to do with it.
While many people with the same level of vision that I do don't listen to
ASL tactually but rather use their vision, there are others with more vision
than I do who listen to ASL tactually as I do.  Conversely, there are some
who are very, very blind but who insist on using their eyes, refusing to use
their hands.  I have known mildly hard of hearing blind people to prefer
signing and some who are almost totally deaf yet keep on trying to hear
speech.  So degree of deafness or blindness is no way to classify or
categorize DB people for any practical purpose.

This is precisely why I never ask anyone how much vision or hearing they
have.  I also don't like it when others ask me that, because this is a
medical question and tends to come from a belief system I disagree
with--that more vision is better than less or more hearing is better than
less.  What is really better is if the person is well-adapted.  For example,
a totally blind person who is fluent in Braille is much better off than a
person who has more vision but strains to read the CC-TV, takes a minute to
focus on the screen, sometimes misreads, and who will snap at you if you
interrupt her reading.  So asking that person how much vision she has is a
joke, and the person who asks it and learns that she "still has useable
vision" and is happy to learn this is reinforcing the mistaken belief that
she should use her vision, no matter what, until the very last drop is gone.

Upon meeting people for the first time, it is immediately clear whether or
not they're well-adapted, independent, use their tools comfortably and with
ease, etc.  There is no need for me to ask any questions related to vision,
hearing, or whatever.  Take my recent encounter with a DB woman from Long
Islan, NY.

Me: Hello.  What's your name?

Woman: who are you?  What is your name?

Me: My name is John.  J O H N.  No, John.  Yes, that's right.  What is your
name?

Woman: I am from Long Island.

Me: Oh, that's nice.  But what's your name?

Woman: I work at a department store.  My job is to fold clothes.

Me: Do you like your job?

Woman: My name is Allison.

Mussie, what good is it to ask how much vision she has?  Whatever vision she
has, she's not well-adapted to reality.  I remember my mother telling me
about a DB woman she saw at AADB.  The woman was chatting with her old
friend, also DB, and after that conversation, the woman turns to her husband
and remarks "Wow, her vision is worse than mine!  We used to be about the
same, but she has lost much of her vision!"  But the funny thing was that it
was obvious to my mother that the woman's vision was, in fact, far worse
than her old friend's vision.  But the woman was blind to that fact, blind
to the fact she needs a cane, needs Braille, etc.  

Ah well!

John  

-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Mussie
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:32 PM
To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication

I agree with you, John, regarding the arrangement of chairs. Many places 
have even tables and chairs attached to the floor, forcing the deaf-blind to

look for alternative seating.
It is a common misconception that by simply stating you are deaf-blind, most

people will assume that you are totally incapable of hearing and seeing. For

that reason, I would simply tell Haben that the way communication 
accommodation is provided depends on degree of deaf-blindness, leaving out 
the need to describe the various modes and instances of communication. From 
my understanding, the majority of deaf-blind individuals actually use 
tactile American Sign Language (TASL), and so communication that places so 
much emphasis on typing messages may not be an ideal solution. The DeafBlind

Communicator even greets the hearie-sightie with something like, "I am blind

and can't hear" (which is much more salient) than simply saying, "I am 
deaf-blind," (which is more confusing). That is apparently because most 
hearing people have enver encountered a deaf-blind and all too often assume 
that deaf-blindness connotes total loss of vision and hearing. That has been

the problem between me and hearing people.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Lee Clark" <johnlee at clarktouch.com>
To: "'NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List'" <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication

> Haben:
>
> No.  This chain relay interpreting is ideal for small groups.  Larger 
> groups
> would result in "telephone line" lags and errors.  Most large groups, in
> meetings or for presentations, would have many different things going on.
> Some will watch the presenter directly, sitting up close.  Others may join
> groups of four or five people who watch one relay interpreter.  some would
> have tactile interpreters.  Others listen to ALDS or read large print or
> Braille feeds.  For this reason, the ideal venue is an open floor and 
> chairs
> that you can arrange in any kind of way.  Places with chairs fixed to the
> floor are bad.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Haben Girma
> Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:24 PM
> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication
>
>
> So at the AADB meetings, is that how they communicate to the whole
> group. So if one person is presenting, do the people next to her relay
> the message around the circle?
>
> Haben
>
> Mussie wrote:
>> Haben,
>> I was once asked this question, although I generally only work on
>> one-on-one training sessions. Sign language is not the only group-wide
>> communication. I am sure there will be much simplier way to
>> communciate in groups in the future, like there will be cell phone
>> based video conversation via ASL in situations where it may not be
>> possible to see one's signing. But for the deaf-blind, there are other
>> options, including networked communication options (Face to Face and
>> the DBC can permit this), though it may not be an they may not be an
>> ideal solution in some situations. I also used to do group tactile
>> signing in which what one is saying at the other end is relayed
>> through the person or persons close to the receiver of the signing.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" <habnkid at aol.com>
>> To: "NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List" <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 2:03 AM
>> Subject: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication
>>
>>
>>>
>>> John, you mentioned somewhere that your wife is not your interpreter.
>>> I imagine that you do find yourself occasionally in large social
>>> groups. What do you do in these situations? Do you just sign to the
>>> people next to you? Does your wife really not interpret at all what
>>> the people across the table are signing? Of course if your wife were
>>> your interpreter she would not get a chance to participate in the
>>> conversation herself, but then how can you participate in the large
>>> group conversation if someone does not interpret for you? I'm curious
>>> specifically about informal groups of 4 to six friends.
>>>
>>> Haben
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nfb-db mailing list
>>> nfb-db at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-db mailing list
>> nfb-db at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-db mailing list
> nfb-db at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.54/2159 - Release Date: 06/07/09
> 17:53:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-db mailing list
> nfb-db at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
> 

_______________________________________________
nfb-db mailing list
nfb-db at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.67/2174 - Release Date: 06/14/09
17:54:00