[nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication

Mon Jun 15 08:25:14 UTC 2009

Whoa. How does a person totally block out reality the way the woman from 
Long Island refuses to address the problem that she can't see signs? I 
can imagine her worrying in the back of her mind if she's guessing the 
signs correctly, hoping she hasn't made a fool of herself...poor woman.

Haben

John Lee Clark wrote:
> Mussie:
>
> The reason I referred to modes of communication and NOT degrees of
> deaf-blindness is that the seating arrangements actually depend on the
> communication mode.  Degree of DBness almost has nothing to do with it.
> While many people with the same level of vision that I do don't listen to
> ASL tactually but rather use their vision, there are others with more vision
> than I do who listen to ASL tactually as I do.  Conversely, there are some
> who are very, very blind but who insist on using their eyes, refusing to use
> their hands.  I have known mildly hard of hearing blind people to prefer
> signing and some who are almost totally deaf yet keep on trying to hear
> speech.  So degree of deafness or blindness is no way to classify or
> categorize DB people for any practical purpose.
>
> This is precisely why I never ask anyone how much vision or hearing they
> have.  I also don't like it when others ask me that, because this is a
> medical question and tends to come from a belief system I disagree
> with--that more vision is better than less or more hearing is better than
> less.  What is really better is if the person is well-adapted.  For example,
> a totally blind person who is fluent in Braille is much better off than a
> person who has more vision but strains to read the CC-TV, takes a minute to
> focus on the screen, sometimes misreads, and who will snap at you if you
> interrupt her reading.  So asking that person how much vision she has is a
> joke, and the person who asks it and learns that she "still has useable
> vision" and is happy to learn this is reinforcing the mistaken belief that
> she should use her vision, no matter what, until the very last drop is gone.
>
>
> Upon meeting people for the first time, it is immediately clear whether or
> not they're well-adapted, independent, use their tools comfortably and with
> ease, etc.  There is no need for me to ask any questions related to vision,
> hearing, or whatever.  Take my recent encounter with a DB woman from Long
> Islan, NY.
>
> Me: Hello.  What's your name?
>
> Woman: who are you?  What is your name?
>
> Me: My name is John.  J O H N.  No, John.  Yes, that's right.  What is your
> name?
>
> Woman: I am from Long Island.
>
> Me: Oh, that's nice.  But what's your name?
>
> Woman: I work at a department store.  My job is to fold clothes.
>
> Me: Do you like your job?
>
> Woman: My name is Allison.
>
> Mussie, what good is it to ask how much vision she has?  Whatever vision she
> has, she's not well-adapted to reality.  I remember my mother telling me
> about a DB woman she saw at AADB.  The woman was chatting with her old
> friend, also DB, and after that conversation, the woman turns to her husband
> and remarks "Wow, her vision is worse than mine!  We used to be about the
> same, but she has lost much of her vision!"  But the funny thing was that it
> was obvious to my mother that the woman's vision was, in fact, far worse
> than her old friend's vision.  But the woman was blind to that fact, blind
> to the fact she needs a cane, needs Braille, etc.  
>
> Ah well!
>
> John  
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Mussie
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:32 PM
> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication
>
> I agree with you, John, regarding the arrangement of chairs. Many places 
> have even tables and chairs attached to the floor, forcing the deaf-blind to
>
> look for alternative seating.
> It is a common misconception that by simply stating you are deaf-blind, most
>
> people will assume that you are totally incapable of hearing and seeing. For
>
> that reason, I would simply tell Haben that the way communication 
> accommodation is provided depends on degree of deaf-blindness, leaving out 
> the need to describe the various modes and instances of communication. From 
> my understanding, the majority of deaf-blind individuals actually use 
> tactile American Sign Language (TASL), and so communication that places so 
> much emphasis on typing messages may not be an ideal solution. The DeafBlind
>
> Communicator even greets the hearie-sightie with something like, "I am blind
>
> and can't hear" (which is much more salient) than simply saying, "I am 
> deaf-blind," (which is more confusing). That is apparently because most 
> hearing people have enver encountered a deaf-blind and all too often assume 
> that deaf-blindness connotes total loss of vision and hearing. That has been
>
> the problem between me and hearing people.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John Lee Clark" <johnlee at clarktouch.com>
> To: "'NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List'" <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication
>
>
>   
>> Haben:
>>
>> No.  This chain relay interpreting is ideal for small groups.  Larger 
>> groups
>> would result in "telephone line" lags and errors.  Most large groups, in
>> meetings or for presentations, would have many different things going on.
>> Some will watch the presenter directly, sitting up close.  Others may join
>> groups of four or five people who watch one relay interpreter.  some would
>> have tactile interpreters.  Others listen to ALDS or read large print or
>> Braille feeds.  For this reason, the ideal venue is an open floor and 
>> chairs
>> that you can arrange in any kind of way.  Places with chairs fixed to the
>> floor are bad.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Haben Girma
>> Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:24 PM
>> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication
>>
>>
>> So at the AADB meetings, is that how they communicate to the whole
>> group. So if one person is presenting, do the people next to her relay
>> the message around the circle?
>>
>> Haben
>>
>> Mussie wrote:
>>     
>>> Haben,
>>> I was once asked this question, although I generally only work on
>>> one-on-one training sessions. Sign language is not the only group-wide
>>> communication. I am sure there will be much simplier way to
>>> communciate in groups in the future, like there will be cell phone
>>> based video conversation via ASL in situations where it may not be
>>> possible to see one's signing. But for the deaf-blind, there are other
>>> options, including networked communication options (Face to Face and
>>> the DBC can permit this), though it may not be an they may not be an
>>> ideal solution in some situations. I also used to do group tactile
>>> signing in which what one is saying at the other end is relayed
>>> through the person or persons close to the receiver of the signing.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" <habnkid at aol.com>
>>> To: "NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List" <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 2:03 AM
>>> Subject: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> John, you mentioned somewhere that your wife is not your interpreter.
>>>> I imagine that you do find yourself occasionally in large social
>>>> groups. What do you do in these situations? Do you just sign to the
>>>> people next to you? Does your wife really not interpret at all what
>>>> the people across the table are signing? Of course if your wife were
>>>> your interpreter she would not get a chance to participate in the
>>>> conversation herself, but then how can you participate in the large
>>>> group conversation if someone does not interpret for you? I'm curious
>>>> specifically about informal groups of 4 to six friends.
>>>>
>>>> Haben
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>         
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>>>       
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