[nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication
John Lee Clark
johnlee at clarktouch.com
Mon Jun 15 17:47:46 UTC 2009
Haben:
Smile. Ii know what you're talking about regarding reaching out to other
people. I always do that, too, but long ago I decided just how much effort
I would put into reaching out. You can't be passive and expect your social
life to flourish, right? So reaching out is required. The DB thing is
usually outside of others' comfort zones, so I do need to break that ice.
It's hard to explain, but I just have a gut feeling for when to and how much
to reach out in different situations. If the other person responds by
reaching back, too, and it goes back and forth, that's great. If the other
person is not responsive or positive, usually the way to go is to forget it.
But not always. For example, if the other person has something I want
badly--say, he may be the owner of the most popular bookstore in town, and I
would love to have a reading there and sell my books there. So of course I
would do more reaching out than I usually do. But this isn't just a DB
thing, but also comes from me as a writer, and I'm doing what other writers
would do, too.
I notice that you and Mussie tend to read what I say and then imagine
something quite fixed, absolute, inflexible. Maybe that's because it's in
writing and it is hard to capture the exact nuance in words. But it's
always "It depends," a big "Maybe," a huge gray area. There are some
principles that guide me, but there are also many exceptions.
Haben, you say it is exhausting to reach out all the time. Why is that?
Why not modulate your efforts so you have a higher chance of reward? Maybe
a good way to look at it is like a budget and a business plan. It would be
silly to spend a million dollars in hopes of earning back only half a
million dollars, right? If you do that socially, you'll be tired because
you're in deep "debt." I guess it may be experience that will help you
become a better investor over time and you'll have a more sensitive feeling
for what investments to make. The goal is to turn a profit. Tthen it
wouldn't be tiring at all, but quite exciting!
But Ii would love it for you to share with us examples of your reaching out
and the different results. Can you tell us more?
John
-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Haben Girma
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 3:16 AM
To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication
Growing up in Oakland I have been exposed to so many different cultures
where communication styles differ greatly. This environment has left me
with a social obligation to always reach out to people. Sometimes it's
just helping hearing people learn to communicate with me, and other
times it's trying to make sense of the broken English of a Russian.
John, it gets really exhausting to have to reach out and struggle to
communicate with people on a regular basis. By refusing to sustain
relationships with non-signers, you relieve yourself of the stress
involved with communicating with people who don't share your
communication style. I not only respect your choice, I admire it, too.
You're declaring that your current social life is enough. So fulfilling,
in fact, that you don't need to make that extra effort to communicate
with the non-signers. Personally, I prefer diversity in my friends and
that extends to a diverse range of communication styles. As a result, my
social interactions aren't always smooth and seemless, but they're
lively and fulfilling just the same.
Haben
Mussie wrote:
> John,
> A lot of the time I am around people who have promised to learn sign
> language but never actually do in the end. They need the motivation to
> do so; setting an obligation for them to learn is like telling your
> foreign-born wife who may not be fluent in English to learn more as a
> preclude to "good relationship". My girlfriend's parents know
> absolutely no sign language except a few signs for basic things, and
> 95% of the time communication is done with them fingerspelling and me
> voicing. Personally, forcing people to learn sign language as a
> condition for developing a relationship is very counterproductive,
> because the nonsigner simply often feels no responsibility because his
> communication mode is "normal" in his/her mind; the same may be true
> for someone who is deaf/hard of hearing, and each must find ways to
> enhance communication without setting conditions. I fully respect you,
> John, but I had trouble with your approach with others, and that
> approach simply may reflect personality styles and cultural
> expectations that vary.
> I have a lot of deaf-blind and deaf friends whose parents don't know
> sign language, and this is really unfortunate and makes communication
> choppy/ineffective. But forcing relatives to learn is like pushing
> them to the edge and risking alienating them. Finding other ways to
> communicate motivates them to learn sign language. A lot of the time I
> meet people they tell me they want to learn sign language but don't
> have the energy and time because they grew up hearing.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lee Clark"
> <johnlee at clarktouch.com>
> To: "'NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List'" <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication
>
>
>> Haben:
>>
>> While most of the social gatherings we find ourselves in are all
>> signers,
>> there are some in which there are some nonsigners. Take my wife's
>> side of
>> the family. Her father doesn't sign much nor does two of her five
>> aunts.
>> Even in those situations, no one has any special interpreting
>> obligations.
>> If my father-in-law wants to develop a relationship with me, he has
>> to learn
>> to sign more. We do not allow him to use my mother-in-law to talk
>> with us
>> at any length. Unfortunately, he has never made any serious moves to
>> learn
>> more. The result is that my wife and her father do not have a
>> relationship.
>> It's his choice, really. early in my marriage, I made overtures, but
>> none
>> of them led to anything.
>>
>> This might as well be, because if someone really wants to have a
>> relationship with you, you two will naturally strive to communicate with
>> each other and do what it takes. If there is a relationship in which
>> there
>> is an interpreter is always used, that means one of the parties wants
>> the
>> relationship more than the other. I've known some people who have
>> only one
>> person in the family who interprets between the two languages, and
>> one or
>> both of the sides would latch onto that person and take advantage of the
>> interpreting instead of making any progress toward communicating with
>> each
>> other independently. I think this is sick. My wifee and I don't want
>> anyone to have this role, or have this as an excuse to avoid making
>> their
>> own efforts. By adhering to this principle, we've had several family
>> members make their choices and make progress. Yes, some still
>> refuse, but
>> that's their loss. I mean, the very fact they're refusing tells you
>> they
>> are probably not worth having a serious relationship with anyway.
>>
>> So you gotta determine what boundaries you're going to establish,
>> then you
>> just let the consequent dynamic take care of itself. It may mean
>> letting go
>> of some hopes that some would respect you--you would be very right to
>> hope
>> this very much, but it's their choice, and you have a choice, too,
>> whether
>> to let that go or bleed.
>>
>> John
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Haben Girma
>> Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:21 PM
>> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication
>>
>>
>> Thanks for explaining all of that, John. In trying to imagine the
>> situation, I had totally loverlooked that fact that in an all-signing
>> group anyone could interpret what the rest of the group is saying. Then
>> your wife doesn't have any special powers of communication that members
>> of the group would lack. All can sign, and all can communicate with you.
>>
>> Haben
>>
>> John Lee Clark wrote:
>>> Haben:
>>>
>>> Sure, I find myself in groups and I often host them. However, ninety
>>> percent of the conversations are between two people. They just do
>>> it in a
>>> group setting. It is rare for a true group conversation to happen that
>>> includes the group as a whole.
>>>
>>> Yes, I would talk with the people on either side of me, but I also
>>> have an
>>> extra chair so that anyone else can come over and sit there to talk
>> directly
>>> with me. There may be brief spurts of interpreting involved, such
>>> as two
>>> other people having a conversation and one of them says that I know
>>> something about something and asks me through one of the people sitting
>> next
>>> to me. If it happens that this question leads to a whole new
>>> conversation
>>> that is getting deeper, I ask the person to come and sit in that
>>> chair so
>> we
>>> can continue the conversation.
>>>
>>> When I am the host, I'd be too busy for a serious conversation
>>> during the
>>> meal. So while I am attending to everyone's needs, I'[d just have
>>> short
>>> conversations with everyone in turn as I go around. I'll have time for
>>> longer conversations later in the evening.
>>>
>>> In the event there is a real group discussion or when someone is
>> addressing
>>> the group as a whole, I might have the person next to me at that moment
>>> interpret for me, or I'd sit next to the person who is signing to the
>> whole
>>> group, meaning there's no interpreter. My wife has sometimes
>>> interpreted
>> in
>>> this scenario, but not often. We rarely sit next to each other. After
>> all,
>>> we are together every day at home. But if she does interpret, it
>>> would be
>>> because she happens to be in the right spot or has offered to, but
>>> anyone
>>> else in the group could be the same. It's not like she has a
>>> special or
>>> extra responsibility for me. Just anyone would do, and it's just
>>> part of
>>> the flow.
>>>
>>> If there are other deaf-blind people in the group, or the group is all
>>> deafblind, things may be different, but even in the entirely deafblind
>>> group, interpreting may come up. I've often interpreted myself, as a
>> relay
>>> interpreter or a chain interpreter.
>>>
>>> Remember that one principle is that whatever I get myself involved
>>> in, it
>> is
>>> something I can do on my own just as well as with my wife. If it's
>>> something where I would have trouble on my own, I'd make other
>> arrangements
>>> even if my wife is involved. This is to say, whether or not my wife is
>>> there should make absolutely no difference.
>>>
>>> Does this help?
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> nfb-db at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
>>>
>>
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