[nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication

Mon Jun 15 19:50:04 UTC 2009

We are having a meeting of minds, Haben, on the issue of diversity. I have 
tried to push some of my friends to learn sign language in order to be able 
to effectively communicate with me, making little effort on my part to 
encourage and motivate them, but that approach more often than not 
backfires. For instance, one of my friends bristled at the perceived "social 
pressure" to adapt to/learn something new for which it is me who must adapt 
by virtue of my limitations. In effect, if I press friends or even family 
members hard enough to learn sign language, I am turning them off. Allowing 
them the opportunity/time to get motivated and learn is the best approach 
psychologically.
But as you said, it is a choice that John is making, and it is his choice 
alone that nobody has the right to insist something else. What works for 
him, works for him. There just doesn't seem to be a right or wrong way of 
communicating. And as I said before, much of my interaction with people 
doesn't depend on sign language but on written communication. Personally, I 
would love for people to learn sign language, but for me variety is the 
spice of life. By initially communicating with people however is easier for 
BOTH of us, I motivate them to learn sign language, but I also feel it 
broadens my horizon if I didn't set conditions and respected people's 
diverse styles of communication.
Again, I take off my hat to John for standing for his personal values.
Mussie
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Haben Girma" <habnkid at aol.com>
To: "NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List" <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:15 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication


>
> Growing up in Oakland I have been exposed to so many different cultures 
> where communication styles differ greatly. This environment has left me 
> with a social obligation to always reach out to people. Sometimes it's 
> just helping hearing people learn to communicate with me, and other times 
> it's trying to make sense of the broken English of a Russian. John, it 
> gets really exhausting to have to reach out and struggle to communicate 
> with people on a regular basis. By refusing to sustain relationships with 
> non-signers, you relieve yourself of the stress involved with 
> communicating with people who don't share your communication style. I not 
> only respect your choice, I admire it, too. You're declaring that your 
> current social life is enough. So fulfilling, in fact, that you don't need 
> to make that extra effort to communicate with the non-signers. Personally, 
> I prefer diversity in my friends and that extends to a diverse range of 
> communication styles. As a result, my social interactions aren't always 
> smooth and seemless, but they're lively and fulfilling just the same.
>
> Haben
>
> Mussie wrote:
>> John,
>> A lot of the time I am around people who have promised to learn sign 
>> language but never actually do in the end. They need the motivation to do 
>> so; setting an obligation for them to learn is like telling your 
>> foreign-born wife who may not be fluent in English to learn more as a 
>> preclude to "good relationship". My girlfriend's parents know absolutely 
>> no sign language except a few signs for basic things, and 95% of the time 
>> communication is done with them fingerspelling and me voicing. 
>> Personally, forcing people to learn sign language as a condition for 
>> developing a relationship is very counterproductive, because the 
>> nonsigner simply often feels no responsibility because his communication 
>> mode is "normal" in his/her mind; the same may be true for someone who is 
>> deaf/hard of hearing, and each must find ways to enhance communication 
>> without setting conditions. I fully respect you, John, but I had trouble 
>> with your approach with others, and that approach simply may reflect 
>> personality styles and cultural expectations that vary.
>> I have a lot of deaf-blind and deaf friends whose parents don't know sign 
>> language, and this is really unfortunate and makes communication 
>> choppy/ineffective. But forcing relatives to learn is like pushing them 
>> to the edge and risking alienating them. Finding other ways to 
>> communicate motivates them to learn sign language. A lot of the time I 
>> meet people they tell me they want to learn sign language but don't have 
>> the energy and time because they grew up hearing.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lee Clark" 
>> <johnlee at clarktouch.com>
>> To: "'NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List'" <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication
>>
>>
>>> Haben:
>>>
>>> While most of the social gatherings we find ourselves in are all 
>>> signers,
>>> there are some in which there are some nonsigners.  Take my wife's side 
>>> of
>>> the family.  Her father doesn't sign much nor does two of her five 
>>> aunts.
>>> Even in those situations, no one has any special interpreting 
>>> obligations.
>>> If my father-in-law wants to develop a relationship with me, he has to 
>>> learn
>>> to sign more.  We do not allow him to use my mother-in-law to talk with 
>>> us
>>> at any length.  Unfortunately, he has never made any serious moves to 
>>> learn
>>> more.  The result is that my wife and her father do not have a 
>>> relationship.
>>> It's his choice, really.  early in my marriage, I made overtures, but 
>>> none
>>> of them led to anything.
>>>
>>> This might as well be, because if someone really wants to have a
>>> relationship with you, you two will naturally strive to communicate with
>>> each other and do what it takes.  If there is a relationship in which 
>>> there
>>> is an interpreter is always used, that means one of the parties wants 
>>> the
>>> relationship more than the other.  I've known some people who have only 
>>> one
>>> person in the family who interprets between the two languages, and one 
>>> or
>>> both of the sides would latch onto that person and take advantage of the
>>> interpreting instead of making any progress toward communicating with 
>>> each
>>> other independently.  I think this is sick.  My wifee and I don't want
>>> anyone to have this role, or have this as an excuse to avoid making 
>>> their
>>> own efforts.  By adhering to this principle, we've had several family
>>> members make their choices and make progress.  Yes, some still refuse, 
>>> but
>>> that's their loss.  I mean, the very fact they're refusing tells you 
>>> they
>>> are probably not worth having a serious relationship with anyway.
>>>
>>> So you gotta determine what boundaries you're going to establish, then 
>>> you
>>> just let the consequent dynamic take care of itself.  It may mean 
>>> letting go
>>> of some hopes that some would respect you--you would be very right to 
>>> hope
>>> this very much, but it's their choice, and you have a choice, too, 
>>> whether
>>> to let that go or bleed.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Haben Girma
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:21 PM
>>> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Deafblind Group Communication
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for explaining all of that, John. In trying to imagine the
>>> situation, I had totally loverlooked that fact that in an all-signing
>>> group anyone could interpret what the rest of the group is saying. Then
>>> your wife doesn't have any special powers of communication that members
>>> of the group would lack. All can sign, and all can communicate with you.
>>>
>>> Haben
>>>
>>> John Lee Clark wrote:
>>>> Haben:
>>>>
>>>> Sure, I find myself in groups and I often host them.  However, ninety
>>>> percent of the conversations are between two people.  They just do it 
>>>> in a
>>>> group setting.  It is rare for a true group conversation to happen that
>>>> includes the group as a whole.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I would talk with the people on either side of me, but I also have 
>>>> an
>>>> extra chair so that anyone else can come over and sit there to talk
>>> directly
>>>> with me.  There may be brief spurts of interpreting involved, such as 
>>>> two
>>>> other people having a conversation and one of them says that I know
>>>> something about something and asks me through one of the people sitting
>>> next
>>>> to me.  If it happens that this question leads to a whole new 
>>>> conversation
>>>> that is getting deeper, I ask the person to come and sit in that chair 
>>>> so
>>> we
>>>> can continue the conversation.
>>>>
>>>> When I am the host, I'd be too busy for a serious conversation during 
>>>> the
>>>> meal.  So while I am attending to everyone's needs, I'[d just have 
>>>> short
>>>> conversations with everyone in turn as I go around.  I'll have time for
>>>> longer conversations later in the evening.
>>>>
>>>> In the event there is a real group discussion or when someone is
>>> addressing
>>>> the group as a whole, I might have the person next to me at that moment
>>>> interpret for me, or I'd sit next to the person who is signing to the
>>> whole
>>>> group, meaning there's no interpreter.  My wife has sometimes 
>>>> interpreted
>>> in
>>>> this scenario, but not often.  We rarely sit next to each other.  After
>>> all,
>>>> we are together every day at home.  But if she does interpret, it would 
>>>> be
>>>> because she happens to be in the right spot or has offered to, but 
>>>> anyone
>>>> else in the group could be the same.  It's not like she has a special 
>>>> or
>>>> extra responsibility for me.  Just anyone would do, and it's just part 
>>>> of
>>>> the flow.
>>>>
>>>> If there are other deaf-blind people in the group, or the group is all
>>>> deafblind, things may be different, but even in the entirely deafblind
>>>> group, interpreting may come up.  I've often interpreted myself, as a
>>> relay
>>>> interpreter or a chain interpreter.
>>>>
>>>> Remember that one principle is that whatever I get myself involved in, 
>>>> it
>>> is
>>>> something I can do on my own just as well as with my wife.  If it's
>>>> something where I would have trouble on my own, I'd make other
>>> arrangements
>>>> even if my wife is involved.  This is to say, whether or not my wife is
>>>> there should make absolutely no difference.
>>>>
>>>> Does this help?
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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