[nfb-db] nfb-db Digest, Vol 42, Issue 41
Catherine Miller
guillcat at gmail.com
Mon Jul 30 19:23:53 UTC 2012
Carrie: Folks here have given you some good advice. I agree with them that LCB is an excellent facility. Although I did not attend the center for the entire six months training, I have participated in other programs there. The executive director, Pam Allen, is a friend and mentor to me. Pam and I regularly consult on matters pertaining to deaf-blindness. Based on years of experience with Pam and the Center, I my hunch is that you are not required to cross the streets with your unique combination of hearing loss and vision loss. Rather, I think that, in typical fashion, LCB's staff is pushing you to find your own limits, allowing you to tell them when enough is enough. Our search for independence is a powerful motivator. We can surpass our limits, often very successfully, with the right motivation. It's unbelievable what we are willing to risk to earn our freedom. But ultimately, you call the shots yourself. Talk to your O&M instructor; talk to your rehab counselor. If you are determined to attain a higher level of mobility than is possible in six to nine months, then think about requesting an extension of your length of stay at CB. I don't want to see you crossing the street in uncertainty out of frustration.
Make an appointment with Pam Allen; tell her that I suggested it. She needs to know about the doubts you feel, in order to make adjustments to the curriculum if that's what is required.
I congratulate you on your strength of character and your unrelenting desire to achieve all that is possible, despite your unique combination of sensory disabilities.
It seems to me that a very important question to answer is whether your hearing is perfectly stable. Perhaps it is possible for you to learn to determine the directionality of traffice. But if your hearing, like mine, is unstable, whatever you learn will be lost when your hearing changes. Likewise, if your hearing aid features adjustments that allow you to turn off rear microphones to block out background noise, be sure the settings are always in the same position every time you stop to listen for traffic.
You strike me as someone who does not find it easy to ask for help. But please consider whether an SSP might allow you to reach a higher level of achievement. If the answer is "possibly," then help us to organize ourselves and a plan that will result in the education of the Federation about why we need SSPs.
Carrie, I'm glad you've found the division list. There are other list with other DB people on the Internet. With your input, we can claim our place alongside our blind brothers and sisters. With the Federation's help, there is no limit to what we can accompish.
With best regards,
Cathy Miller
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 29, 2012, at 10:11 PM, nfb-db-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Crossing Streets? (Marsha Drenth)
> 2. Re: Crossing Streets? (Alicia Richards)
> 3. Re: Crossing Streets? (Scott Davert)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 22:18:45 -0400
> From: "Marsha Drenth" <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List'" <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Crossing Streets?
> Message-ID: <1FB9E1719C3849B0A200F7A2D9288C92 at Cptr233>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Carrie,
>
> Your not the first with a hearing impairment to go to a NFB center. How
> those other students did I am not sure. From what I have heard, the travel
> was the hardest of all. I don't have any suggestions on how you would cross
> the streets better. But as a person with a hearing impairment myself, no
> normally hearing person, can know what we hear, the fear and uncertainty
> that goes along with that, or can walk in our shoes. Its hard. If anyone
> here has any good ideas please do share them. Please don't get me wrong,
> when I say this next part. The NFB centers are awesome in their training.
> The problem comes when a person, with a hearing impairment attends, they are
> very not well equipped to train a person with both blindness and hearing
> difficulties. From another friend of mine who attended LCB quite a few
> years ago, there was a young lady who had a severe hearing loss. But again
> had trouble with travel. She left and I think was suppose to go to the HKC.
> I might be wrong here. But when it comes to an NFB center it's the coined
> training and that is it, any deviation from that causes problems. At one
> point I looked into going to a training center, specifically an NFB center,
> but because of my hearing impairment. I was not guaranteed that
> accommodations could be made for that. I am a very independent person, who
> uses a guide dog too, my cane skills are not what I would be going there
> for. The program is to be there for all of the training, including cane
> travel. I spoke to Al spooner, regarding this matter. Its really sad when a
> person with a hearing impairment goes to an NFB center, and who can't have
> accommodations made for that. Again I might be wrong, so I would like for
> someone to prove me wrong.
>
> Carrie, I do hope you find the information your looking for. Good luck!
>
> Marsha
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Kerri Kosten
> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 8:22 PM
> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List; Ed McDonald; Charlene Smith;
> Arielle Silverman; Paul Migliorelli (+1 303-552-6970)
> Subject: [nfb-db] Crossing Streets?
>
> Hi Everyone:
>
> Though I have been on this list for a long time now, I don't post much.
> But, I am having a problem I don't really know what to do about and I
> need to find a solution rather soon.
> I am a current student at the Louisiana Center for The Blind, the NFB
> training center. I did very extensive research before choosing this
> center, and I chose this one because I knew it was the best of the
> best and I could learn to become independent to the point where I
> would have the confidence to be able to go anywhere, have the
> confidence to do anything I wanted, and be able to travel in
> new/unfamiliar environments without needing to be orientated by a
> mobility instructor everytime I moved somewhere.
> Besides this, I much prefer the structured discovery method of
> learning over the ttraditional route travel method.
> In addition to being totally blind, I have hearing loss. I basically
> only have hearing in my left ear. My right ear is completely deaf.
> This means that I hear sounds pretty well but I have trouble with
> localization and knowing which direction sounds are coming from.
> I am at the point in my training where I am having to cross
> intersections with stoplights. In order to cross these intersections,
> I am supposed to cross when the parallel traffic is moving. The
> parallel street is the street that is beside me. When the parallel
> traffic is moving, the perpendicular traffic (traffic on the street in
> front of me) can not go.
> I am having two problems that do not seem to be getting better. First,
> I am having a lot of trouble telling which street is going. I can hear
> the traffic. I can hear when it is stopped/idaling. But, I am having
> trouble telling which street is moving, the one in front of me or the
> one beside me.
> At first, my instructor would ask me questions such as "What is
> moving?" and I would try to tell him/her and then cross at the
> appropriate time. However, now, since I have been in training for a
> couple of months, my instructor does not say anything because he/she
> wants me to make the decision on my own and trust myself.
> So, what happens is we approach the street. I admit I am terrified
> because there is so much traffic and I know I have to cross the street
> on my own. I attempt to listen. I get somewhat of an idea of what
> street is going. I then become even more scared though and don't
> cross. We end up just standing at the particular intersection for 20
> minutes or more and my instructor gets onto me.
> I don't know whether my issues are with hearing or my fear. My
> instructor avidly believes I am just letting my fear stop me and does
> not understand why I am not gaining confidence and beginning to trust
> myself more. My instructor believes I can do this even with one ear.
> I guess I am both afraid and unsure. I can sort of tell which street
> is moving because it seems at times (I don't know if this is accurate
> or not) but it seems that the perpendicular street (the street that is
> in front of me) sounds a bit louder and when the parallel street is
> moving (the one beside me) it sounds sort of quieter/a bit further
> away from my left ear. Sometimes though, on different streets, for
> some reason I don't hear this slight sound difference and all the
> traffic sounds the same to me. I can hear it, it just all sounds the
> same so I can't tell which street is going. However, I am still afraid
> to go, so end up just standing there for much longer than I should. I
> guess I am afraid that it will be the wrong time and if I go it will
> be the wrong time. So, I don't go, and we end up standing at one
> intersection for forever.
> The problem is that I have already been in training for a few months,
> and students are only in training for up to nine months. I want to do
> as well as I can here. I do not want to be one of those students who
> is here for nine months but barely learns anything. That is not why I
> came here.
> Also, these particular streets are only about four blocks from the
> center which is a very short distance. If I can not figure out how to
> cross these streets, I will never be able to advance very far in
> travel, and this will really cause me a lot of problems in the rest of
> my life when I have completed training.
> How do you all handle street crossings? How do you know which street
> is moving when you only have hearing in one ear?
> Is there something else I can listen for? Is there a certain pattern I
> can listen for or something to help me?
> Is it possible that I am becoming so terrified/anxious that my fear is
> affecting my hearing?
> Is it accurate/true that the perpendicular street sounds louder than
> the parallel one? Could I use this slight difference in sound to
> properly judge which street is moving?
> Could my attitude have something to do with this? Instead of going
> about this with an excited, positive, can-do attitude, maybe I am
> being too negative/scared? Could my approach/attitude possibly be
> affecting things?
> I should point out that I have not made a bad decision yet when
> crossing. My instructor has never had to actually stop me. He/she
> keeps telling me this, but I still feel as if each street crossing I
> manage is kind of like pulling teeth so to speak because I am so
> scared and then I end up standing at the intersection for so long.
> Because of this, rather than gaining confidence with each street
> crossing, I am instead still terrified.
> Are there any federationists who have hearing in only one ear or a
> similar situation that may not be on this list that could possibly
> help?
> Is there anyone else I could contact?
>
> Thanks so much!
> Kerri
>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 21:29:52 -0500
> From: Alicia Richards <alicianfb at gmail.com>
> To: "NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List" <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Crossing Streets?
> Message-ID: <B4AA2A3FF6F0425AAD135A7B94D49B66 at aliciab5324f6e>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hello, all. I rarely post to this list, as I am blind, but hearing.
> However, I'd like to respond to Kerri's message. Please forgive the
> upcoming lengthy message.
>
> Kerri, I'm not quite sure what to suggest here. I will continue to think
> about it. I personally feel that the LCB, like most blindness centers I've
> known, has no idea how to handle a client who has a hearing impairment as
> well as blindness. I'm not saying LCB is a bad center. I know it's our
> best one, actually. You're right about that. I agree with them nine times
> out of ten. But I think they are wrong on this issue: that your travel
> instructor is wrong in this case. Seriously, your message makes me want to
> take our Center's sleepshade policy, and apply it to hearing. I'd love to
> put an earplug in one of your instructor's ears, and see how well he/she
> could distinguish traffic patterns.
>
> First, I truly do not believe this is an issue of your having a negative
> attitude, or being too afraid. Your message clearly shows you have a very
> positive attitude, and I admire it. You're ready and more than willing to
> learn, and want to get the best out of your program. Not all students do.
> I don't think you're afraid of independent travel, but simply of street
> crossings. And I don't think it's you not trusting yourself. I truly
> believe it's about your hearing impairment, and you very naturally wanting
> to be safe. Your fear, in my opinion, is nothing more than inteligent
> self-preservation, which any normal human would have. I'm glad you've
> consistently made the right decision about when to cross thus far, but it
> sounds as if your hearing is not trustworthy enough to be counted on all the
> time, and personally, that's a gamble I would not want to take. Whether
> parallel or perpendicular traffic is quiet or loud doesn't seem to be
> relevant, if you're not able to tell which direction it is moving, through
> no fault of your own, by the way. From my bits of experience with those who
> are hearing impaired and blind, it seems like the biggest mistake hearing
> people make is to assume that hearing has to do with loud and quiet only.
> We often don't factor in things like directionality. I know I certainly
> didn't until I started meeting people who were in situations similar to
> yours.
>
> I'm pretty sure this is not at all what you want to hear, but I'll say it
> anyway. Most blind and hearing impaired people I know use street-crossing
> cards if they can't distinguish between perpendicular and parallel traffic.
> It's a card that has writing on it that says you are blind and hearing
> impaired, and need assistance to cross the street. Yes, I know, on the
> surface this would seem to go against our philosophy of independence, as
> well as your desire to be so. But, if you listen to Dr. Jernigan's speech,
> "The Nature of Independence," he basically says that the most independence
> is obtained by employing whatever alternative techniques you need to in
> order to live and travel safely and effectively. To me, you using your
> limited hearing to try and distinguish between perpendicular and parallel
> traffic is neither safe or effective, as your email shows. I view a street
> crossing card the same way I do a blind person using a white cane. Many are
> resistent at first. But a white cane is needed for blind people to travel
> safely and effectively. For some blind and hearing impaired people, so is a
> street crossing card. It's simply another alternative technique. Again, I
> say, I don't think you have a negative attitude or are too afraid.
>
> This is where I think the deaf-blind division needs to help educate places,
> especially our own training centers, in regards to people with both
> blindness and hearing issues. LCB is most likely to listen to fellow
> Federationists, people they know share their positive philosophy of
> blindness. Cathy and Rox, if I remember correctly, you both live in
> Louisiana, and I know you both have great attitudes and philosophy of
> blindness. Do either of you know anyone or have any connection to LCB?
> Since you guys live in that state, do you think there's anything you could
> do here?
>
> Kerri, I will continue to think about this, but I really wanted to respond
> and say that I don't think your problems here have anything to do with your
> attitude or lack of self-confidence.
>
> Alicia
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 23:11:04 -0400
> From: Scott Davert <scottdavert at gmail.com>
> To: Alicia Richards <AliciaNFB at gmail.com>, NFB Deaf-Blind Division
> Mailing List <nfb-db at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] Crossing Streets?
> Message-ID:
> <CAOHXxEaCGtahNLUhGkSs_nP19UKNHqKRCDPRw7uLUkhNt+8ing at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Hello Kerri.
> First, I'm glad you have decided to post and I hope others will offer
> their perspective as well. As I'm only one person and am not an o and
> m specialist, I may not be the best person to ask, though I am a
> person who has gone through some of what you're dealing with now when
> I was receiving training.
> Your fear is not what is holding you back, in my opinion. I had the
> same fear, and I had that fear for a good reason, though the
> instructors I were working with at the time kept trying to get me to
> cross a street using my hearing. I am almost totally deaf in my right
> ear and severe loss in my left. I tell you all of this before I say
> what I have to say so that you know where I'm coming from. I'm not
> you, and I am not walking in your shoes, no pun intended, but my
> experiences are similar. I had most of my struggles in blindness
> training centers with respect to mobility for the same reason.
> Only hearing out of one ear is going to make it almost impossible to
> localize traffic in such a way that you can use the information. Sure,
> you can try to turn your head to determine what's going on, but with
> traffic moving fast, by time you've figured out where it may be coming
> from, it's gone. And while you may be able to detect more quiet or
> more noisy traffic surges, that will not help you reliably determine
> where the surge is coming from. Some traffic surges are louder than
> others, no matter whether they're perpendicular or parallel to you.
> Think about it this way: if there is a bus that takes off
> perpendicular to you when the light changes, that's going to be more
> noisy if only a few quiet vehicles were at that same crossing. You
> could very easily have the same results if the bus or any other noisy
> vehicle were parallel to you. I tried to do this as well. I even went
> so far as to take this theory in to practice and cross against a
> light. Because, like you, I had the fear and was told by others that I
> had to get over it. What I learned though is that there is that fear
> is sometimes there for a very good reason. In the case of analyzing
> traffic patterns with one ear, I am hear to tell you from both a
> logical and personal standpoint that there is no safe way to do so. In
> the words of my friend and an O and M specialist Gene Bourquin, who
> has over 20 years of experience in working with people who have both
> vision and hearing loss, with regard to this type of crossing told me
> the following. "what you're trying to do is both biologically and
> physically impossible". Audiologists I have been to who are educated
> on the effects of both vision loss concur.
> SO what is there to do in this situation? With your hearing, which is
> much like mine, nothing. Alternative methods of doing this must be
> looked in to and perhaps an O and M instructor who has experience in
> working with people who have a combined vision and hearing loss needs
> to be consulted.
> For me, the solution was to use a street crossing card. Essentially,
> the card has a graphic of someone holding someone else?s' elbow and
> assisting the person with a cane across the street. It also says in
> text something to the effect that I'm blind and hard of hearing.
> Please tap me on the shoulder if you can help me cross.
> Also, if you're with friends who do have normal hearing, you can
> always walk with them, and just grab an elbow to get across the
> street. Or, have them verbally tell you when they're crossing. If it's
> too noisy, have them tap you on the shoulder when they're crossing. A
> true friend never minds such a minor thing.
> Is that independence you may be asking? Well, I decide which streets I
> cross, work a full time job, navigate around my local area I've
> relocated to without too much difficulty, and have a fairly active
> life. I had trouble getting used to the idea of someone I don't know
> helping me across the street, but I've gotten used to it over the
> years. This is what has worked for me. That doesn't mean it's the best
> solution for you, and I'm certainly not going to sit here and say
> that's what you have to do. The only thing I would say is that you
> must work with your O and M instructor to find an alternative
> solution. If this individual isn't educated in working with people
> with both these losses, it's time for that person to reach out to
> professional resources who do have the experience to garner the
> knowledge necessary to help you succeed. If he/she cannot do this,
> perhaps they should stick to working with people who are blind only,
> as it's a different world for those of us who have a hearing loss to
> go along with it. You cannot get accurate information from something
> that isn't able to take in that information accurately. That's so
> basic I would think most people with any sort of disability education
> should understand.
> Finally, I can tell from your writing that you're a very motivated
> person in your training and that you have the strong urge to succeed.
> Remember that just because you do not do things the same way as your
> classmates, as long as you make your own choices and can get from
> point a to point b, that's all that matters. I'm sorry that this may
> not be the exact solution you wanted, but I hope you will at least
> take my idea into consideration. Again, you can't gain confidence on
> something that you cannot reliably detect due to your ears. Blaming
> you for this is much like blaming a person who is mainly blind in one
> eye but has site in the other for not seeing stairs and tripping on
> them. You can't make them do what their body will not allow them to.
> Finally, I?d pass these 2 article references on to your instructor. I
> find it rather unprofessional that he/she didn?t bother to do a bit of
> research on their own, but that?s another message for another day.
> While these articles have the word deaf-blind in them, they apply to
> anyone who has trouble localizing traffic patterns that is blind. This
> would include you and I.
> I sincerely wish you the best of luck on your quest for your
> independence. Remember, just because you?re not always doing things
> the same exact way as your peers, it does not make you any less of a
> person. You can still do everything they do and mostly in the same
> way.
>
> Scott
> References:
> Bourquin, E., Hogan, S., & Sauerburger, D. (2010). Street Crossing
> Signs: Travelers Who are Deaf-Blind Obtaining Assistance when
> Pedestrians are not Present. AER Journal, 3(4), 139-145.
> Bourquin, E., & Moon, J. (2008). Studies on Obtaining Assistance by
> Travelers Who are Deaf-Blind. Journal of Visual Impairment &
> Blindness, 102(6), 352-361.
>
>
> On 7/29/12, Alicia Richards <alicianfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello, all. I rarely post to this list, as I am blind, but hearing.
>> However, I'd like to respond to Kerri's message. Please forgive the
>> upcoming lengthy message.
>>
>> Kerri, I'm not quite sure what to suggest here. I will continue to think
>> about it. I personally feel that the LCB, like most blindness centers I've
>>
>> known, has no idea how to handle a client who has a hearing impairment as
>> well as blindness. I'm not saying LCB is a bad center. I know it's our
>> best one, actually. You're right about that. I agree with them nine times
>> out of ten. But I think they are wrong on this issue: that your travel
>> instructor is wrong in this case. Seriously, your message makes me want to
>>
>> take our Center's sleepshade policy, and apply it to hearing. I'd love to
>> put an earplug in one of your instructor's ears, and see how well he/she
>> could distinguish traffic patterns.
>>
>> First, I truly do not believe this is an issue of your having a negative
>> attitude, or being too afraid. Your message clearly shows you have a very
>> positive attitude, and I admire it. You're ready and more than willing to
>> learn, and want to get the best out of your program. Not all students do.
>> I don't think you're afraid of independent travel, but simply of street
>> crossings. And I don't think it's you not trusting yourself. I truly
>> believe it's about your hearing impairment, and you very naturally wanting
>> to be safe. Your fear, in my opinion, is nothing more than inteligent
>> self-preservation, which any normal human would have. I'm glad you've
>> consistently made the right decision about when to cross thus far, but it
>> sounds as if your hearing is not trustworthy enough to be counted on all the
>>
>> time, and personally, that's a gamble I would not want to take. Whether
>> parallel or perpendicular traffic is quiet or loud doesn't seem to be
>> relevant, if you're not able to tell which direction it is moving, through
>> no fault of your own, by the way. From my bits of experience with those who
>>
>> are hearing impaired and blind, it seems like the biggest mistake hearing
>> people make is to assume that hearing has to do with loud and quiet only.
>> We often don't factor in things like directionality. I know I certainly
>> didn't until I started meeting people who were in situations similar to
>> yours.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure this is not at all what you want to hear, but I'll say it
>> anyway. Most blind and hearing impaired people I know use street-crossing
>> cards if they can't distinguish between perpendicular and parallel traffic.
>>
>> It's a card that has writing on it that says you are blind and hearing
>> impaired, and need assistance to cross the street. Yes, I know, on the
>> surface this would seem to go against our philosophy of independence, as
>> well as your desire to be so. But, if you listen to Dr. Jernigan's speech,
>>
>> "The Nature of Independence," he basically says that the most independence
>> is obtained by employing whatever alternative techniques you need to in
>> order to live and travel safely and effectively. To me, you using your
>> limited hearing to try and distinguish between perpendicular and parallel
>> traffic is neither safe or effective, as your email shows. I view a street
>>
>> crossing card the same way I do a blind person using a white cane. Many are
>>
>> resistent at first. But a white cane is needed for blind people to travel
>> safely and effectively. For some blind and hearing impaired people, so is a
>>
>> street crossing card. It's simply another alternative technique. Again, I
>> say, I don't think you have a negative attitude or are too afraid.
>>
>> This is where I think the deaf-blind division needs to help educate places,
>>
>> especially our own training centers, in regards to people with both
>> blindness and hearing issues. LCB is most likely to listen to fellow
>> Federationists, people they know share their positive philosophy of
>> blindness. Cathy and Rox, if I remember correctly, you both live in
>> Louisiana, and I know you both have great attitudes and philosophy of
>> blindness. Do either of you know anyone or have any connection to LCB?
>> Since you guys live in that state, do you think there's anything you could
>> do here?
>>
>> Kerri, I will continue to think about this, but I really wanted to respond
>> and say that I don't think your problems here have anything to do with your
>>
>> attitude or lack of self-confidence.
>>
>> Alicia
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-db mailing list
>> nfb-db at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-db_nfbnet.org
>>
>
>
>
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>
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