[nfb-db] My thoughts on training centers blind, and deaf blind.

Marsha Drenth marsha.drenth at gmail.com
Tue Nov 12 23:30:52 UTC 2013 

carrie,
Your not the only one to think that if a deaf, or deafblind person who wanted to go to an NFB should have the same experience as the rest of the students, but it just does not work that way. Not at this point. 
again, I won't go into a huge amount of details, but the person who asked me to originally write the resolution, actually voted down the resolution in the end. Many of those people who are in my local chapter, voted it down. *shrug* I don't get it. 
Yes we will keep on fighting.. the NFB has that saying, "changing what it means to be blind". Instead of for us, it should say, "changing what it means to be Deafblind". 


Marsha drenth  
Sent with my IPhone 

> On Nov 11, 2013, at 7:22 PM, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Everyone:
> 
> First, the freedom bell is what a student gets after they graduate
> from the center. You have a graduation ceremony where the director
> talks about you, then all the students and staff say something.
> The freedom bell is a bell with an eagle on top. This resembles flying
> away and having freedom.
> On the bottom it has the date of your graduation, it has your name,
> and it says "together we are changing what it means to be blind."
> Not every student gets them. I have known of a few students who just
> received certificates of achievement. But, if you truly complete the
> program and do all the work and such you get a freedom bell.
> You are right that I do have enough hearing that I use speech to
> communicate. Though my hearing loss affects my travel, for the most
> part I am able to communicate with people.
> If a person could not hear enough to communicate and relied
> exclusively on ASL it would be isolating once the interpreter left.
> Hmm, I don't have an answer right offhand but there should be some
> kind of solution so that a student who only relies on ASL can still
> attend an NFB center and have an enjoyable and fulfilling ttraining
> experience.
> Marsha, I am glad the resolution passed, but it angers  and saddens me
> that it faced so much contraversy from the "vanilla" blind people. We
> definitely need to keep educating them.
> Though I have enough hearing that I don't need to use an SSP,
> deaf-blind people who need to use one have as much right to the same
> independence and such that a person who is just blind enjoys.
> We can't give up. If we keep fighting and educating, we can change
> their perceptions.
> Though it faced in my opinion unfair contravercy, it is good that it
> passed in not only PA but MD.
> Through education and not giving up and speaking up and making the NFB
> notice us, we can make a difference and change perceptions.
> Kerri
> 
>> On 11/11/13, Randy Pope <randy.pope at aadb.org> wrote:
>> Marsha,
>> 
>> Can you post the resolution?
>> 
>> Randy
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-db [mailto:nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marsha Drenth
>> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 1:05 PM
>> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] My thoughts on training centers blind, and deaf
>> blind.
>> 
>> Janice and all,
>> As I sent this list an email yesterday morning, I wanted to reply to
>> anice's
>> post below and give an update.
>> The resolution that I wrote up, did pass, not exactly in the form that I
>> had
>> hoped but it did pass, with lots of contraversy. If the board is interested
>> in hearing about the issues, I would be happy to discuss this offlist. I
>> would also be interested in seeing MD's resolution.
>> 
>> Janice I am sorry to hear that the ALD did not work. We tried an induction
>> loop, which is not hard to set up, nor expensive. If there is someone who
>> is
>> a techno guru in your state, we can pass along the spects.
>> that is great that someone voiced for you. I relied heavily on my sign.
>> Even
>> with the loop system, people from the audiance would speak, and of course I
>> could not hear them. Now I will say that my state president, got in the
>> habit of repeating what people who were not using a microphone would say.
>> But even when we were at meals, or just socializing, it was hard to hear in
>> a crowd.
>> 
>> Not that this will necessarily help you Janice with learning sign, I have
>> been told that there are deaf culture courses at the Community college of
>> Philadelphia. I will be looking into this. But I do know it was mentioned
>> some place. I was also told that alot of ITP, Interpretor training programs
>> at universities or community colleges offer them. So if interested in deaf
>> culture, looking at ITP within your state might be worth looking into.
>> 
>> I can't say for sure why the resolution I wrote, had so much much
>> contraversy. I would venture to say that the vanille blind, no disrespect
>> meant here, are afraid of what they do not understand in regards to
>> deafblindness, our special needs. I also think, that the NFB promotes
>> independence, but because we as people who are DB, need, desire, and want
>> SSP, its sort of threatening to blind persons who have, are, and still
>> working for their independence. I can say atleast that is what I sort of
>> figured out from my state this weekend. Education will only help us to
>> defunk that idea.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha drenth
>> Sent with my IPhone
>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2013, at 8:51 PM, Janice Toothman
>>> <janice.toothman at verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Randy,
>>> I am very curious as well.  I hope to learn tactile ASL.  I do not want
>>> my
>> total blind to limit my ability to learn something.
>>> 
>>> I do not think I have ever had so much talk at a NFB State Convention
>> about adapting and learning skills so that blindness becomes a "nuisance"
>> rather than a disability.  It was motivating; but when the ALD did not work
>> and Christine Telford from DORS was sometimes permitted by her boss to
>> voice
>> for me so I could hear.  I find it very frustrating much of the time to to
>> the lack of hearing.
>>> 
>>> However,  the SSP resolution was unanimously passed.
>>> Janice
>>> 
>>>> On 11/7/2013 11:06 AM, Marsha Drenth wrote:
>>>> Randy,
>>>> I'd like to know more about these methods in how to learn ASL? Very very
>> curiously.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Marsha drenth
>>>> Sent with my IPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Nov 7, 2013, at 10:33 AM, "Randy Pope" <randy.pope at aadb.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hey Scott,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Whatever you do, don't let these people advise you to stick the
>>>>> Rochester method.  That is a very bad idea.  Many of the DB people
>>>>> would not have the patience to communicate with those using this
>>>>> method.
>>>>> 
>>>>> With the right people, you will...not maybe....you will master ASL
>> somehow.
>>>>> There are deaf ASL teachers out there who would be willing to work
>>>>> with people like you.  For those DB people who cannot see, there are
>>>>> other method to teach ASL.  I know of several who are teaching ASL
>>>>> to totally blind students, successfully,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Randy
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfb-db [mailto:nfb-db-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott
>>>>> Davert
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 8:33 PM
>>>>> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] My thoughts on training centers blind, and deaf
>> blind.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi marsha.
>>>>> Sadly, my vvocabulary is maybe 100 signs. The classes until very
>>>>> recently have been so infrequent that I haven't benifited much from
>>>>> them. My receptive skills are certainly better than my actual
>>>>> signing ones. People have started to tell me that I should just
>>>>> stick with the Rochester method, but I want to keep trying to learn,
>>>>> you
>> know?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Scott
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 11/6/13, Marsha Drenth <marsha.drenth at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Gene,
>>>>>> sounds like you have some things to do. In all due time it will get
>> done.
>>>>>> Good luck, perhaps you will get to come up while I am there.
>>>>>> Keep us updated.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Marsha drenth
>>>>>> Sent with my IPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Nov 5, 2013, at 10:00 PM, "gene richburg"
>>>>>>> <gene5402 at austin.rr.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Marsha, well I have either some time in Jan or Feb, but that
>>>>>>> hasn't been determined yet.  I still have to develop my iep plan
>>>>>>> with dars, the department of asistive rehabilitation services,
>>>>>>> HKNC can't give me a date with out that I e p plan, but I have to
>>>>>>> have a prep meeting  that will include my mom and everyone else.
>>>>>>> We were gonna have it on the 24th of october, but Molly Rimer had
>>>>>>> a death in the family, her niece passed away that morning at age
>>>>>>> 22, or 23, I for get which, so hopefully things will work out on
>>>>>>> the 8th of this month, then after the prep meeting then we will be
>>>>>>> able to develop the actual I e p.  The reason I need a prep
>>>>>>> meeting, is so my mom can help me figure out what I will be able
>>>>>>> to expect from Dars, and what they will expect of me.  It's really
>>>>>>> frustrating, I was supposed to get in back in either august but
>>>>>>> couldn't because every one that was helping me with the
>>>>>>> application totally dropped the ball, and me and my
>>>>> mom finally had to step in and straighten everything out,.
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Marsha Drenth
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 4:19 PM
>>>>>>> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] My thoughts on training centers blind, and
>>>>>>> deaf blind.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Jean, yes I did receive the student handbook. I got it from the
>>>>>>> admissions person at HK and see. I think I also read that they do
>>>>>>> provide the vibrant call alert system. I'm interested in seeing that.
>>>>>>> Do you have a start date?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Marsha drenth
>>>>>>> Sent with my IPhone
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Nov 5, 2013, at 4:52 PM, "gene richburg"
>>>>>>>> <gene5402 at austin.rr.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi Marsha, did you receive the HKNC student handbook?  I don't
>>>>>>>> know if they provide consumers, or what ever they call people who
>>>>>>>> come there, but I think they provide some kind of vibra call
>>>>>>>> system, but I didn't get that part very clearily, I'll have to go
>>>>>>>> back and read that, perhaps Scott can clear that up for sure.
>>>>>>>> But if you need the handbook, I can email you off list and atatch it
>> to the message.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Marsha Drenth
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 8:26 PM
>>>>>>>> To: NFB Deaf-Blind Division Mailing List
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-db] My thoughts on training centers blind, and
>>>>>>>> deaf blind.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Maurice,
>>>>>>>> I think hands down that no one will argue with you that if
>>>>>>>> someone is in need of blindness skills training, and if they are
>>>>>>>> just blind with no additional disablity, then going to a NFB
>>>>>>>> training center is the
>>>>> best.
>>>>>>>> With that said, I am not just blind, but severely hard of
>>>>>>>> hearing. I have chosen to go to HKNC because of two main reasons,
>>>>>>>> I do not need blindness skills. I was blind before I lost my
>>>>>>>> hearing. But I do need the skills in order to live as a deafblind
>>>>>>>> person. I have traveled with a cane, with a guide dog, read
>>>>>>>> braille, and am able to use technology. The problem lays in that
>>>>>>>> I also can't hear. There is only one center in this country that
>>>>>>>> can train a person who is both blind and hard of hearing. With
>>>>>>>> that said, most persons who go to HKNC, are in need of a
>>>>>>>> audiologist who has worked with the dual sensory loss. An in
>>>>>>>> house audiologist who understand the needs of blind persons,
>>>>>>>> visually impaired persons, and those who also who are deaf, hard
>>>>>>>> of hearing and or hearing impaired; is something that an NFB
>>>>>>>> center does not have. Just because I have made this desicion,
>>>>>>>> doesn't not mean that I am less of a person, less of an NFB
>>>>>>>> member, or
>>>>> think less of the philosophy.
>>>>>>>> Its awesome that you had a successful experience at the CCB. And
>>>>>>>> I am also not sure, of your hearing issues. But if I am reading
>>>>>>>> your message correctly, your saying those persons who go to an
>>>>>>>> NFB center,
>>>>> are better.
>>>>>>>> This is the sort of attitude that divides a group. The NFB
>>>>>>>> centers are no less better than HK, nor is HK better than an NFB
>>>>>>>> center. Its just different, serves different disabilities, different
>> needs.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I have heard of both good and bad experiences at the HK center,
>>>>>>>> jsut as I have heard of persons going through an NFB center. I
>>>>>>>> just know that for me, with my hearing loss, it would not be
>>>>>>>> successful to go to a NFB center. For them to ask me to listen to
>>>>>>>> traffic in order to indicate when its safe to cross. I can't hear
>>>>>>>> traffic. It would not be viable for me to have an NFB center to
>>>>>>>> tell me, listen for the water boiling, I can't hear it boil. The
>>>>>>>> techniques are different,
>>>>> similar but different.
>>>>>>>> Granted I haven't been there yet to begin my training. My
>>>>>>>> desicion was one I made for me. But with that said, I can
>>>>>>>> understand why other deafblind persons make the same desicion.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Its unfair to say that HK is not what blind, or deafblind people
>>>>>>>> should be going to for training, especially if you haven't been
>>>>>>>> there
>>>>> yourself.
>>>>>>>> I would say that all blind persons should be tolerant of those of
>>>>>>>> us who have different needs, are in need of different skills than
>>>>>>>> just those you learn as a blind person.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Marsha drenth
>>>>>>>> Sent with my IPhone
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Nov 4, 2013, at 6:19 PM, maurice mines <kd0iko at icloud.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Good afternoon, I have been thinking for quite some time as I've
>>>>>>>>> read emails on this list recently, that it might be of some
>>>>>>>>> benefit to talk about the benefits of attending an NFB training
>>>>>>>>> center. Of course the question that many on this list will ask
>>>>>>>>> why are you even discussing this? Because I've heard a lot
>>>>>>>>> recently a.k.a. read a lot recently that the feeling seems to be
>>>>>>>>> that HK in C is apparently
>>>>> be only game in town.
>>>>>>>>> But I believe that if my past experience at the Colorado Center
>>>>>>>>> for the blind is any indication of how and if the training
>>>>>>>>> centers handle death blindness, one need not have very much worry
>> about.
>>>>>>>>> Remember that the training is very individualized. So what may
>>>>>>>>> work for you and what level of deaf blindness you have, it may
>>>>>>>>> not reflect how they deal with your neighbor at all. Also as far
>>>>>>>>> as I understand the training centers do reach out to resources
>>>>>>>>> to help that training happen appropriately. So you're not going
>>>>>>>>> into the great void of the unknown. Also it is good to know that
>>>>>>>>> based on my experience we found alternative techniques not only
>>>>>>>>> to blindness but the issues surrounding the lack of hearing. And
>>>>>>>>> of course we discuss the options should one's hearing get worse.
>>>>>>>>> I guess one getting at here is that if you are considering going
>>>>>>>>> to a training center I think that's the first part, the second
>>>>>>>>> part is actually figuring out which one you should go to and the
>>>>>>>>> reasons why you want to go to it? I think that based on
>>>>>>>>> everything I've read and people I've talked to that all three of
>>>>>>>>> our centers can handle this well. I think a comment by a current
>>>>>>>>> staff member made when I was a student at the Colorado Center
>>>>>>>>> for the blind came out of it
>>>>> conversation regarding the disabilities that is neither deaf
>>>>> blindness were just great blindness.
>>>>>>>>> It surrounds my at that time anyway great fear of writing anything.
>>>>>>>>> The staff member said quote you can't just not right. The
>>>>>>>>> translation that I took away from that and have come to realize
>>>>>>>>> in the years since I graduated from the Colorado Center for the
>>>>>>>>> blind, you can't just not live life because you can't hear
>>>>>>>>> ordered their blindness involved. And depending on what you have
>>>>>>>>> to do, in many respects you have to get out there and just plain
>> live one's life.
>>>>>>>>> Another thought of course comes to mind in many of the writings
>>>>>>>>> and things that are second national president Dr. Jernigan when
>>>>>>>>> he spoke about not throwing the nickel. I guess it kind of blows
>>>>>>>>> down to accept help when you need it and of course find ways of
>>>>>>>>> not accepting it if you don't. And last but not least he
>>>>>>>>> believed in blind people and I extend this adept line people
>>>>>>>>> blending into society when in wherever it is possible. Just some
>>>>>>>>> food for thought on a rainy Monday afternoon. I'd certainly
>>>>>>>>> would like to read some of the thoughts that you all may add to
>>>>>>>>> this. But I'll just leave it at this I have an abiding belief in
>>>>>>>>> all of the training centers and what they can do in the fact
>>>>>>>>> that the NFB difference is that they care not just there for a
>>>>>>>>> paycheck. But because they care and
>>>>> believe in turning out capable and competent people.
>>>>>>>>> Sincerely Maurice mines. Phone 360-524-0791, work/school email
>>>>>>>>> address, Maurice.mines at PCC.edu.
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>> nfb-db at nfbnet.org
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