[NFB-Idaho] Frank's question about Debit cards and Credit cards (was Re: how do people handle the inaccessibility of credit card machines at the store or restaurant etc.?)

Sun Aug 20 19:33:27 UTC 2023

Hi Frank,

As far as I know, there is no such thing as a combined debit card and
credit card. The head accountant at NFB says there is no such thing either.

For our purposes the difference between the two is as follows:

When you use a debit card, the funds are extracted from your account
immediately. If you have insufficient funds in your account, the
transaction is declined.

When you use a credit card, the issuing organization loans you the funds
you are charging. No money is taken directly from your account and the
issuing bank doesn't look at your accounts to see if you have enough money
to pay off the loan. Instead, the issuing bank only looks to see if you
have enough space in your credit card account. The bill for that loan is
sent to you at the end of the month. If you pay off the loan in full, all
is good. If you pay off only part of the loan then you are charged interest
for carrying the loan into another month.

On many and perhaps most cases, when you pay with a debit card at a
merchant, you are required to enter your PIN. Some merchants -- both
in-person and online -- don't require the pin and that *makes it appear* that
the debit card was used as a credit card. However, even if you run your
debit card without having to enter your PIN, it is still a debit card and
funds are extracted from your account immediately.

This matters to the NFB because they want to maintain what they call
"accounting controls" on all uses of funds. If we had a credit card, one of
those "accounting control" allows us to inspect the monthly card report to
ensure that all charges are legitimate. If one or more charges are thought
to be fraudulent, we can appeal to the credit card company to not force us
to pay those charges until they investigate and determine if the charges
were fraudulent or not.

Debit cards do not have this feature. There is no such "accounting control"
on a debit card. Once something is paid for with a debit card, the funds
are gone and the bank can't get them back even if we claim the item to have
been fraudulent. This is a big risk because we could lose all of our money
if the debit card is stolen or skimmed. (FWIW, I do not carry the NFB debit
card. It stays in a locked drawer in my desk at home until I have to use
it.)

I hope this is a better explanation of the conversation we were having at
the recent Board of Directors meeting.

Best,

DON WINIECKI

Handid Braille Services

   - a 501(c)(3) non-profit producer of braille & accessible media
   - specializing in languages that don't use Latin symbols systems

Email: dwiniecki at handid.org

Web: https://www.handid.org

Tel: +1 208 571 8096

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On Sun, Aug 20, 2023 at 1:12 PM Frank Skogsberg via NFB-Idaho <
nfb-idaho at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> As i try to explain sat. That some banks gives a credit card and debit
> card in one. Explain that that a card can be use as a debit card or debit
> transition.so what is the difference.?? One if you go to merchant card
> reader and run card over screen or in bottom machine.that is all that to
> do. Then you are usesing the card as a credit card. Two if you wan to use
> the card to get cash and pay for merchandise you have to have help to tab
> the debit icon. And inter you pin..
> i use the band card for my checking acct. both ways. Also i learn when for
> in when i go staple if i use the card as a debit card when i return the
> merchandise. It take longer to get refund on credit training then return on
> debit Tran.. that you have to put in pin.
> Yes as when i use atm  machine i have not fin a machine that will talk to
> you.n o t e you must have a headphone to plug in machine.i have som tine
> trouble to plug in jack becus diffent machine have in difference places.i
> think a step forward that the merchant machine will this. I did font that
> the merchant machines are made by diffent companies depending on what bank
> thy yawing.
> I con tax national headquarters and rep Andy can spell. National sad that
> thy was working. This was a long time ago before a t m machines was
> assabin.this a step forward but more need to be done. By the way national
> said that we can put preset to as the merchant to get machine more as
> sable.so i hope this help and that you as the merchdise to do that .we can
> make a diffence for peer peson.so put the preset to do this.
> Be way I remember the Wal mart machange were not talking and now thaw are
> talking thank to national and member asking.thy are prefix.
> So we can make a diffence lest keep preset on the merchants to improve.
> I can’t spell today i hope you get messages and have good day.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 19, 2023, at 4:47 PM, Kevin Pirnie via NFB-Idaho <
> nfb-idaho at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > It is becoming more of a challenge as it seems that there is no
> > standardization with the card readers. I would be interested to here what
> > the responses were among those present when she asked the question.
> >
> > For me I try to become familiar with the card terminals at the locations
> > where I frequent most often. The biggest problem is very few are
> accessible
> > at all, some you can hold close to the terminal to read the chip in the
> > card, but you still have no way to personally confirm the amount that you
> > are paying. You are still at the mercy of a sighted person to confirm the
> > amount of the transaction. Some terminals have a physical keypad for a
> pin
> > number and to confirm details and others are screen only and none that I
> > have seen are audible or accessible.
> >
> > This is a real problem for the blind and I have been quite surprised that
> > the NFB has not attempted to address this. I have heard the subject of
> > accessible atm machines talked about but all point of purchase and
> banking
> > transaction locations need to be accessible to the blind and we need to
> > organize and mobilize to do something about it.
> >
> > I'm interested to hear thoughts from others as well.
> >
> >
> > Best,
> > Kevin
> >
> >> On Sat, Aug 19, 2023 at 10:51 AM Dana Ard via NFB-Idaho <
> >> nfb-idaho at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Our board member Fawn Owens is teaching her son Alex how to use a debit
> >> card
> >> at the store. She asked how people handle answering the questions that
> come
> >> up like "do you want cash back?" I agree that these machines should be
> >> accessible and I'm not aware that this issue has ever been raised on a
> >> national level. If people have thoughts, or tips to share with Fawn or
> the
> >> rest of us, please post. Thank you.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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