[Nfb-krafters-korner] classes and times
Eileen Scrivani
etscrivani at verizon.net
Sat Jan 8 02:03:45 UTC 2011
This will be the very last message I post on this topic to this list or to
any individual privately on the NFB board. While we now all know that none
of the recordings have yet been sold, again can the question be answered
clearly, in writing hhere on the list for all to read and understand ...
For future use, does the NFB or the NFB Krafters Korner claim they own any
recordings in existance or future recording yet to be taught?
And, further are there plans to try and sell such materials in the future?
I don't want to hear for the millionth time by another board member that
they have not yet sold the recordings, I want to have a complete
understanding and explanation of what the organizations intentions are for
possible future sales. It is not clear what actions are in the works for
the future. I would like this to be stated by the head of the organization
since all other stuff is at the president's discression.
I have been accused wrongfully by this orgs leadership of blowing things
out of proportion when all I did was ask a lot of reasonable questions that
concern me as well as others. In response to my questions I've taken a
beating by the board. While the discussion on the topic of class times
kicked the entire thing off. That can be easily enough solved and may no
longer be an issue.
Next, the timing question was elevated to a higher level by the proposal of
using recordings made by one instructor to someone else to use and serve as
either a facilitator or moderator. I forget for certain, but when this
suggestion originally came up it might have been Joyce who embraced the
idea. I would have to go back through archives of emails to determine this
one for sure. So yes that raised in my mind questions of who owns them and
how can recorded class materials be used without the instructors consent.
If I kept asking questions about it, that's because there was an inability
to answer my questions in a clear & timely manner rather than letting this
linger on for a week and getting a lot of people upset & worked up over it.
This was not my fault.
Every time I asked the question I got a double talk response that on the
surface sounds good but could be taken in more than one way. So for the
very last time, can the questions I asked above on the future sales and
future claims on ownership be answered promptly & clearly?
Finally, I'm tired of the abuse and way I have been treated over his issue
being screamed at on the one and only phone conversation I've had all week
regarding this topic. Then after being screatched at on the phone, lectured
about the amount of responsibility on the shoulders of one person what a
heavy burrden it is to maintain recordings, send them out to students, and
finally hung up on I get an additional private email tonight asking about
how I handled my students & my recordings when a student had to miss one of
a three part course! Where the heck do you people get the total nerve
regarding how I have chosen to teach my materials and question to who among
my students got recordings? I have always been a supportive and encouraging
instructor to the very best of my ability, never giving second best. I have
given my support, time and knowledge willingly to this division and its
members. This is how you thank people who have helped the board make the KK
division work! Yes, an organization needs a good working board, but a group
like this has had a lot of non-board members helping, teaching, researching
and advising behind the sceens.
This division is a total turn off and it is not the members at large ...
they have been great, fun to work with both those I have taught and those I
have learned from. I have respect for the members at large ... they have
been a joy to work with.
The same cannot be said of the board.
Eileen
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Laurie Porter" <freespirit1 at tds.net>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 6:59 PM
To: "List for blind crafters and artists" <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] classes and times
> the nFB has no archives of the recordings nor has the nFB ever laid claim
> to any of the recordings.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eileen Scrivani" <etscrivani at verizon.net>
> To: "List for blind crafters and artists" <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 3:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] classes and times
>
>
>> Hi Laurie:
>>
>> I appreciate your comments, but why can't the president make a clear &
>> public statement about who owns the recordings? Why was the issue of
>> having to archive them made such a big deal out of? Why do two or three
>> years of class recordings have to be kept/archived by the NFB if they
>> have no intention of using them after they are sent to those students
>> that have attended classes?
>>
>> Once I have recordings on my hard drive I can easily backup or copy to
>> cd. No need for NFB top hold onto my stuff or anyone else's for that
>> matter. Anyone of use can set up a free conference service that makes
>> recording easy then the individual would maintain their own materials if
>> they so choose. I
>>
>> The issue came up and if I have reasonable well-founded questions to ask
>> I can expect an honest answer -- I've asked but still have not gotten a
>> reasonable lawful answer. By saying this has been blown out of
>> proportion demeans an important question and the laws.
>>
>> Eileen
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Laurie Porter" <freespirit1 at tds.net>
>> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 3:42 PM
>> To: "List for blind crafters and artists"
>> <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] classes and times
>>
>>> I think the claim to ownership of any materials and selling them without
>>> permission was blown way out of proportion. There was merely a
>>> suggestion that we make the recorded classes available for sale to those
>>> who do not are unable to attend the classes with the funds going to the
>>> teachers. this was also discussed in line with the possibility of
>>> charging students a small fee for the classes be they attended or
>>> recorded. We wouldn't just do it without permission from the teacher adn
>>> the organization would provide the support in their preparation and
>>> distribution.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Eileen Scrivani" <etscrivani at verizon.net>
>>> To: "List for blind crafters and artists"
>>> <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 11:20 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] classes and times
>>>
>>>
>>>> Lynda:
>>>>
>>>> God Bless You & thank you for your expertese on this issue.
>>>>
>>>> Eileen
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> From: "River Woman" <riverwoman at zoominternet.net>
>>>> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 12:10 PM
>>>> To: "List for blind crafters and artists"
>>>> <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] classes and times
>>>>
>>>>> My background is in teaching on the college/university level. I can
>>>>> tell you for sure that none of my lectures or any handouts I made for
>>>>> my students can be given out by the college that has paid me to
>>>>> develop this intellectual material. It is mine alone. No other person
>>>>> or authority has any rights to use it in any way regardless of how
>>>>> much money we earn for our teaching.
>>>>>
>>>>> The same should hold ture for anyone who has voluntarily taught
>>>>> classes.
>>>>>
>>>>> My lectures were voice recorded, and video recorded, by my permission,
>>>>> and were available to students who had missed a class. But, I never
>>>>> had to do that, was not required to do it. It was my choice. And,
>>>>> certainly my materials were not available to anyone in any form
>>>>> without my permission. I would never have given any of my materials to
>>>>> anyone who had not taken my class, under any circumstances.
>>>>>
>>>>> Eileen has every right to decide who gets her information and it
>>>>> cannot be done without her permission, legally.
>>>>>
>>>>> Never at any time in my teaching career did anyone else decide when my
>>>>> classes were offered. It was solely my choice and I did it to suit my
>>>>> own schedule. Just wanted to clarify my own experience and I taught
>>>>> at three different kinds of institutions: community college; private
>>>>> college; and large state university. At none of them did anyone but
>>>>> me decide my schedule nor use my materials without my concent and
>>>>> permission. It is just not done!
>>>>>
>>>>> Lynd River Woman
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Eileen Scrivani" <etscrivani at verizon.net>
>>>>> To: "List for blind crafters and artists"
>>>>> <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 10:05 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] classes and times
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Cindy:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regarding the ownership of the recorded materials that is not a
>>>>>> board's decision to make. It will be determined through the
>>>>>> copyright, and ownership laws of the U.S. It is much larger than the
>>>>>> control of the board of this division. And as a blind crafts person,
>>>>>> in the way this episode has been handled by a so called
>>>>>> "creative/artistic" group that is supposed to support the blind
>>>>>> craftsperson & artist, you are ripping off the blind individual and
>>>>>> stealing materials that do not belong to the division, but that have
>>>>>> been developed and presented by a blind individual.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eileen
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> From: "slery" <slerythema at insightbb.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 3:35 AM
>>>>>> To: "'List for blind crafters and artists'"
>>>>>> <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] classes and times
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eileen,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am NOT speaking for the board in this message. However, I want to
>>>>>>> assure
>>>>>>> you that your questions and complaints have not fallen on deaf ears.
>>>>>>> As you
>>>>>>> stated, the leadership needs to make the final decision. Until that
>>>>>>> decision
>>>>>>> is made, you cannot receive an answer. The board does not meet daily
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> weekly, so a decision cannot be made within a single day.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You will be contacted when things are finalized.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As to Joyce's comment about wanting to hear from the instructors,
>>>>>>> you are
>>>>>>> only one instructor and we want to know why the other instructors or
>>>>>>> potential instructors are not joining the discussion because it
>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>> matter what time students would like classes if there are no
>>>>>>> instructors
>>>>>>> available to teach them at alternate times.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This topic was started as a way to hear from the membership and
>>>>>>> create a
>>>>>>> list of times that we might be able to fill in the future. No one on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> board or in the division expects you as ONE instructor to find a way
>>>>>>> to fill
>>>>>>> all of these times. You have been a great instructor and provided a
>>>>>>> valuable
>>>>>>> resource to this division. There have been many students that have
>>>>>>> benefited
>>>>>>> from your classes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cindy S.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: nfb-krafters-korner-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> [mailto:nfb-krafters-korner-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>>> Eileen Scrivani
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 4:43 PM
>>>>>>>> To: List for blind crafters and artists
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfb-krafters-korner] classes and times
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Joyce:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> besides seneding you three private emails on this topic, I am
>>>>>>>> an instructor
>>>>>>>> who has posted thoughts on the subject of class recordings,
>>>>>>>> but my messages
>>>>>>>> to the divison leadeership has fallen on deaf ears.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> From: <Blindhands at aol.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 4:04 PM
>>>>>>>> To: <nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Subject: [Nfb-krafters-korner] classes and times
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> > I am back online with JAWS working 100% so now I can reply to the
>>>>>>>> > emails.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > After listening to all the email regarding classes and after
>>>>>>>> > discussing this with the board members of the NFB Krafters
>>>>>>>> Division I
>>>>>>>> > would like others to know our thoughts.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > We defintely have grown and spread not only within the USA,
>>>>>>>> but around
>>>>>>>> > the globe. We want to continue our growth and bring
>>>>>>>> Krafters Korner
>>>>>>>> > every where there is a need for us to learn, share and teach
>>>>>>>> > each
>>>>>>>> > other the crafting skills of this group.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > With all that has been said it has proven that we need more
>>>>>>>> classes at
>>>>>>>> > different times. After saying that we have the ability of
>>>>>>>> doing these
>>>>>>>> > classes, recording them and having students interact live with
>>>>>>>> > the
>>>>>>>> > teacher and other students. Now we need to find a way to
>>>>>>>> do this at
>>>>>>>> > different times to
>>>>>>>> > include more people around the World. We have heard from
>>>>>>>> friends in
>>>>>>>> > India,
>>>>>>>> > Australia, New Zealan, Canada and Alaska that have taken or
>>>>>>>> would love to
>>>>>>>> > take a class, but the timing is not great for them. I ask
>>>>>>>> each one of
>>>>>>>> > you to
>>>>>>>> > seriously think about what you would like from Krafters
>>>>>>>> Korner and if one
>>>>>>>> > of your answers are take classes like others, then I ask
>>>>>>>> you to please
>>>>>>>> > contact me off list. _Blindhands at aol.com_
>>>>>>>> (mailto:Blindhands at aol.com)
>>>>>>>> > I would like to work with you to make this happen.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > While this conversation went on there was not much comments
>>>>>>>> being made
>>>>>>>> > from
>>>>>>>> > our teachers regarding this and I would also like to hear from
>>>>>>>> > the
>>>>>>>> > teachers off list. We do have teachers living in
>>>>>>>> different time zones
>>>>>>>> > and maybe
>>>>>>>> > some of them would be willing to try different times for
>>>>>>>> classes. I need
>>>>>>>> > to
>>>>>>>> > hear from the teachers.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > The question has been brought up why and who picked classes to be
>>>>>>>> > during the week starting at 8 p.m. When Krafters Korner
>>>>>>>> first started
>>>>>>>> > out the list was small and most folks were living on the East
>>>>>>>> > coast
>>>>>>>> > and Central time
>>>>>>>> > zone. Laurie Porter did our first class and it was a
>>>>>>>> beading class. I
>>>>>>>> > had
>>>>>>>> > asked our list people what time and weekend or during the
>>>>>>>> week would
>>>>>>>> > be best and that is how we started out. We did try classes on
>>>>>>>> > the
>>>>>>>> > weekend during the day and in the evening and in the evening
>>>>>>>> > during
>>>>>>>> > the week. We had more folks show up for a class in the evening
>>>>>>>> > during the week. When classes
>>>>>>>> > began we would maybe have 3or 4 and maybe 5 people at a
>>>>>>>> class. That did
>>>>>>>> > include the teacher and me in those numbers. Now look at
>>>>>>>> the attendence
>>>>>>>> > of a
>>>>>>>> > class.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > So please contact me off list and let's work together to
>>>>>>>> develop this
>>>>>>>> > further.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Joyce Kane
>>>>>>>> > _www.KraftersKorner.org_ (http://www.krafterskorner.org/)
>>>>>>>> > Blindhands at AOL.com
>>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> > Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list
>>>>>>>> > Nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>> account info for
>>>>>>>> > Nfb-krafters-korner:
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbn
>>>>>>> et.org/etscrivani%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list
>>>>>>> Nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>> Nfb-krafters-korner:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org/sleryth
>>>>>>> ema%40insightbb.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list
>>>>>> Nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nfb-krafters-korner mailing list
>>>>> Nfb-krafters-korner at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-krafters-korner_nfbnet.org
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
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>>
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