[Nfb-science] Braille Displays

Sun Sep 5 16:46:01 UTC 2010

Jule:

I don't quarrel with your arguments one iota. In fact, I agree with you ten 
times over re the usefulness of Braille. But I agree if you substitute 
"paper Braille" for "refreshable Braile display". I'm sorry but IMO 
refreshable Braille seems to me largely useless when it comes to complex 
math where equations take many lines and it is useful to look at part of the 
equation with one hand while reading on with the other. Moreover, much 
complex math is spacial and without a lot of dinking around and changing 
cursor positions, refreshable Braille displays convey such information no 
better than do audio displays.

Again, I wholeheartedly agree with you re learning of foregn languages -- at 
least at the beginning. But, frankly, foreign languages in any form on a 
computer are IMO a pain in the deriere in that one must worry about code 
pages, keyboard interpretations, not to mention Braille translation or no 
and even then, are we working to U.S. or native country Braille standards. 
Again, I prefer paper Braille.

AS one becomes familiar with a language such as Spanish or German, one 
learns to handle the audio and infer spelling rules from the pronunciation 
itself (I speak fluent German and some French and Spanish and taught myself 
French Grade 2 Braille orthography) so that having the text in Braille isn't 
quite as necessary though a good reader of whom to ask questions is often 
quite handy and sufficient and costs a lot less than the refreshable Braille 
display.

Again, my quarrel is not with Braille -- you darn well know I insisted upon 
Braille math texts in high school and college up to graduate school -- but 
rather with the necessity of a refreshable Braille display. I use one for 
note-taking and such and love it but for poetry and the like -- thanks but 
no thanks. e. e. Cummings poetry just doesn't get it with a refreshable 
display.

Yours in friendly discussion,

Mike Freeman

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
To: "NFB Science and Engineering Division List" <nfb-science at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Nfb-science] Braille Displays

> You may use audio as you would print, but I can think of several
> instances in which a refrshable Braille display would be the better
> option and well worth the cost.
>
> The frist instance is an example from my own life. I cannot learn
> audioally. It takes me twice as long to learn from an audio textbook
> what I'd learn from a Brailled textbook. I know this because I have
> taken Hadley classes in both audio and Braille formats and now take
> them exclusively in Braille because I find it very hard to follow the
> text when it is in audio format. Further, I cannot listen to an audio
> clip or tape and something else at the same time (such as a teacher
> talking or someone discussing the text). However, hardcopy Braille is
> not always practical, even if it is available (I have a friend who got
> her high school math book for this year...it is five volumes of
> Braille! I think a digital Braille text would have been a better
> option, especially since their house is full of Braille books in every
> room, so sometimes finding the right volume is not easy, whereas
> digital Braille can be labelled and searched for wih ease).
>
> Another instance in which Braille would be preferable over audio on a
> computer is for people with hearing loss. I have a friend who is
> totally blind since the age of three and reads Braille at
> almost-lightning speed. However, give her something to listen to and
> it takes her at least twice as long to read it because she has to go
> back over it several times. She misses words because she can't hear
> them. She also cannot listen to what is going on in her environment at
> the same time, so listening to an audio textbook or something on her
> computer while in class would a no-no...she'd miss what the teacher
> was saying half the time because she was working with her computer,
> even if all she is doing is listening to herself type so she doesn't
> make typos.
>
> Further, for a deafblind person, a refreshable Braille display can
> mean the difference between having full access to the computer and
> having little or no access. Audio simply isn't a usable resource for a
> deafblind person, but Braille can open alll the doors to
> accessibility.
>
> Another instance in which the refreshable Braille display would be
> preferable over a screenreader is while reading specially formatted
> text. Tables are easier to read in Braille then listen to. Poems in
> special format (all right aligned, some ines left-aligned, some
> right-aligned, and some centered, or all the lines centered) would not
> have the full effect in audio, but with a refreshable Braille dispaly,
> the special formatting would still have its intended effect.
>
> One last example I can think of (that doesn't mean there aren't more,
> it's just that I don't want to go on and on...I think you get the
> picture, or I hope you do) is when the spelling of a word really
> matters. For example, when learning a foreign language or new
> vocabulary that is difficult to spell. Do you think it would be easier
> to learn how to spell omnipotamia if you had it in Braille or listened
> to it? Which would make it faster to check the spelling? In my
> opinion, the Braille display, since you could see the spelling as you
> read it, while with a screenreader, you would have to go back and have
> the screenreader spell it over or go over it character by character.
> In the Harry Potter books, I listened to the first two in audio and
> kept wondering "How do you spell Hermione"? With an "io" or an "Oi"?
> It really bugged me, because I am a geek like that. But what if you
> had to write an essay about a novel you read for school, and you
> misspelled the name of the main character because you listened to the
> book instead of reading it using a Braille display (perhaps because
> you got the book from Bookshare or it's from an online library, or its
> 13 volumes and you dn't want the hassle of carrying around all those
> volumes)? I think the teacher would be certain to correct you, but it
> would be quite embarrassing if the character's name is Maudraline, and
> you spelled it Modraleen or some such...spelling can be important, and
> you can't learn spelling from audio books! When learning a foreign
> language, knowing where the accents are placed or how an odd word is
> spelled is quite important. In Spanish, an accent or the lack thereof
> can make a huge difference. As example, consider the difference etween
> por que and por que (wht an accent on the e). The first means because;
> the second why. When listening to an audio book, you might hear "Por
> que vas al mar" If there is an accent on the e and a question mark, it
> would mean "Why do you go to the sea?" and if there is no accent and a
> period, it would mean "Because you go to the sea."
>
> I agree that for some people, a refreshable Braille display would be a
> waste of money. My boyfriend is one of those people. He not only
> doesn't read Braille well (and only uncontracted Braille), but he is
> dyslexic, so reading the Braille on a refreshable disaply, he would be
> more likely to missepll a word or misunderstand it. His preference is
> for something like the VictorStream Reader, which will read the words,
> but you can also go back and sepell the words. Other people, whether
> dyslexic or simply an audio learner, just learn better when hearing
> something compared to reading it or seeing it. For these people, a
> screenreader would be preferrable.
>
> But that does not mean that a refreshable Braille display is a waste
> of money for everyone. As I hope I demonstrated above, there are many
> instances in which a refreshable Braille display is not only well
> worth the cost, it is also an essential tool. some of the reasons I
> gave above rre those I gave when arguing for a refreshable Braille
> display to be purchased as an essentila accessible technology for
> purchase by Vocational Rehabilitation. I won that argument and will be
> getting a refreshable Braille display, which I think I could not
> succeed completely without. I tried to take a Spanish class without
> access to my book in Braille, but I ended up asking the professor
> every time she wrote something whether there was an accent in the
> words she wrote, and I had trouble remembering accents. I also had to
> read part of a book out loud in a class as part of group participation
> (it was a skit), but had difficulty doing this by listening then
> repeating. If I had had it in Braille, I would have had no trouble
> reading it out loud as my fingers moved over the lines.
>
> I hope that these arguments make sense, and I hope this will add
> positive infoormation to the conversation. Thank you for allowing me
> to ramble about it *grin*
>
>
>
>
> On 9/4/10, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>> I disagree with Robert in that I don't think
>> Braille displays are worth the money in general although there may be
>> specific employment situations (call centers anyone?) wherein they might 
>> be
>> helpful. I believe with a bit of ingenuity, one can largely discern 
>> computer
>> programming formats and the like with speech. But then I may be cheating
>> because for many years, I used an Optacon with CRT lens to read the 
>> computer
>> screen and do my programming.
>>
>> And yes, I have a braille note-taker so I'm not knocking braille.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Christine Szostak" <szostak.1 at osu.edu>
>> To: "NFB Science and Engineering Division List" <nfb-science at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:45 AM
>> Subject: [Nfb-science] Braille Displays
>>
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>  John's post prompted a question for me.
>>>
>>>  For those who use Braille displays with JAWS, what specifically do you
>>> find them most useful for? Are they worth the investment in your opinion
>>> and if so, is there a particular brand that tends to be highly
>>> recommended?
>>> Many thanks
>>> Christine
>>> Christine M. Szostak
>>> Graduate Student
>>> Language Perception Laboratory
>>> Department of Psychology, Cognitive Area
>>> The Ohio State University
>>> Columbus, Ohio
>>> szostak.1 at osu.edu
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
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>
>
> -- 
> ~Jewel
> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
>
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