[NFB-Seniors-Discussion] For Judy - FW: two responses from Nebraska to my post- NFB Senior Discussion list

Thu Apr 18 16:45:05 UTC 2024

Thank you very much for the answers.

Judy

“Embrace each day with His mercies and blessings.”

From: NFB-Seniors-Discussion <nfb-seniors-discussion-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of RobertLeslie Newman via NFB-Seniors-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2024 8:57 AM
To: NFB Seniors Division Discussion List <nfb-seniors-discussion at nfbnet.org>
Cc: robertleslienewman at gmail.com
Subject: [NFB-Seniors-Discussion] For Judy - FW: two responses from Nebraska to my post- NFB Senior Discussion list

From: Christine Boone <christineboone2 at gmail.com <mailto:christineboone2 at gmail.com> > 
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2024 10:51 AM
To: robertleslienewman at gmail.com <mailto:robertleslienewman at gmail.com> 
Subject: Re: Responding to you - FW: [NFB-Seniors-Discussion] two responses from Nebraska to my post- NFB Senior Discussion list

Good morning Judy: 

yes you are quite right the Mowat was supposed to be used with a cane. The crazy little English man I described in my last post was so enamored with the device that he swore he did not even need a cane when he had his sensor.

As for your question: we do have ways of managing right turn on red. Those techniques demand continuous monitoring, but they work quite well. As for quiet cars, unfortunately they continue to be a problem. The good news is that all new cars must be built with a noise maker that is triggered when the vehicle is moving at slow speed.  When these cars are driving at high speed you can still hear the tires on the road surface and this makes enough noise for us to manage. The mechanical noise kicks in when the vehicle slows down. The bad news is that some car manufactures include a switch so the driver can turn the sound off.  This runs counter to the Law but that does not prevent the problem of quiet cars. I hope this information is helpful. 

Christine L. Boone, J.D. 

On Apr 18, 2024, at 5:56 AM, robertleslienewman at gmail.com <mailto:robertleslienewman at gmail.com>  wrote:

From: NFB-Seniors-Discussion <nfb-seniors-discussion-bounces at nfbnet.org <mailto:nfb-seniors-discussion-bounces at nfbnet.org> > On Behalf Of Judy Jones via NFB-Seniors-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2024 10:30 PM
To: 'NFB Seniors Division Discussion List' <nfb-seniors-discussion at nfbnet.org <mailto:nfb-seniors-discussion at nfbnet.org> >
Cc: Judy Jones <sonshines59 at gmail.com <mailto:sonshines59 at gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: [NFB-Seniors-Discussion] two responses from Nebraska to my post- NFB Senior Discussion list

Christine, you are spot on, and I am one blind person giving confirmation.

I do remember the Moat, and got to play with it a bit, but I also thought that was to have been used in conjunction with a cane, not without.

If memory serves, this device worked with laser signals?  I remember the mobility instructor jokingly saying that with laser you could create your own doorway.  😊 This would have been mid-seventies, if I am correct in my thinking.

I would like to know if O&M have come up with any techniques of dealing with all the right-on-reds now, or in having to deal with the quiet car or robo behicle?  If there are, then I need to up my mobility skills.

Judy

“Embrace each day with His mercies and blessings.”

From: NFB-Seniors-Discussion <nfb-seniors-discussion-bounces at nfbnet.org <mailto:nfb-seniors-discussion-bounces at nfbnet.org> > On Behalf Of RobertLeslie Newman via NFB-Seniors-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2024 6:48 PM
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Cc: robertleslienewman at gmail.com <mailto:robertleslienewman at gmail.com> 
Subject: [NFB-Seniors-Discussion] two responses from Nebraska to my post- NFB Senior Discussion list

(Here are two travel instructors (One still on the job and one retired; Chris is retired yet will teach any newbie that comes along)

*Good morning: 

Jeff is absolutely spot-on here. There is nothing I can really add to what he has said except this brief illustration which, to me, confirms the truth of all Jeff has written

When I had the honor of working with Dr. Alan Dodds; from the University of Nottingham’s Blind Mobility Research Unit; he told me about the adventures of a colleague who demonstrated the Mowat Sensor. This device sounds similar to the one described here, though it was implanted in a pair of glasses. The Mowat would tell the wearer whenever there was an object in front of him, and it would vibrate more or less to Indicate whether it was a large object or a small one. The Mowat did not always pick up on objects on the ground but it got everything else, even things that were off to the side like branches. I believe this unit may also capture those items so it would be a bit more advanced than the Mowat. 

Well Dr. Dodds was observing this colleague walking across campus wearing the glasses. The man was turning his head continuously from side to side so he would not miss anything—and in the process it is not surprising that he completely lost his way while crossing the commons. The head turning caused great weaving in his walk, so he failed to find the proper sidewalk to take him to the Mobility Research Unit. He also ran smack into every person he encountered… until those walking behind others had the sense to move far out of his way. He also ran into tree branches, missed curbs and connected with 1 fire-hydrant. Inside the Mobility Research Unit things got even worse. This man kept talking about the wonders of the Mowat and in the meantime he was crashing into tables, knocking over chairs and finally careening into a wall. 

I would be interested to see how much pro9gress this technology had made in the past 35 years, but am not at all a believer in computerized or robotic travel aids of any kind. I believe the mind of a blind person together with a cane can take that person safely, gracefully and effectively wherever she wants to travel across this big blue world! Once she is proficient using her cane and problem solving, she can do the same thing with a Guide dog.   

Respectfully, 

Christine

From: Nebraska-Senior-Blind <nebraska-senior-blind-bounces at nfbnet.org <mailto:nebraska-senior-blind-bounces at nfbnet.org> > On Behalf Of debandjeff--- via Nebraska-Senior-Blind
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2024 11:31 PM
To: 'Nebraska Senior Blind Info and Discussion List' <nebraska-senior-blind at nfbnet.org <mailto:nebraska-senior-blind at nfbnet.org> >
Cc: debandjeff at allophone.com <mailto:debandjeff at allophone.com> 
Subject: Re: [Nebraska-Senior-Blind] New travel aid - what do you think - FW: [Tech-VI] CSUN 2024: Strap Tech Ara Wearable Mobility Device for the Blind

Hi Robert,

While I haven’t seen the device, nor have I read all of the details, I’m not certain it has all that much more going for it than devices from twenty, thirty or even forty years ago. These devices tend to provide information that tells the user that there is something there, which in some situations can be helpful; however, in general they do not tell the user what that object is. An experienced  cane user that contacts an object with the cane receives both auditory and tactile information that can in many cases be very quickly identified as the characteristics of a particular object. This identification can provide important information regarding orientation, such as the sound of the typical sign pole can tell the blind person that he or she is too close to the street, and needs to turn away from it. A guide dog takes the blind handler around obstacles, but due to intelligent disobedience, can prevent the handler from making a critical error. Even if such a device could tell the user what an object is, could it do it quickly enough to allow it to be really useful. Sure, if it could be used to scan an area, and tell you where specific things are, that could be useful, but I think there are already some apps out there that can help with that, but I don’t think using them on the fly is a very good idea.

There are many other reasons that the cane, or a dog continue to be the primary choices of blind people for their personal independent travel, but the most important one is the level of understanding of the environment that they provide, or the partnership with a dog that help them to have the confidence to travel independently. I don’t see this device, anymore than those that came before it, as being a better answer, or even all that particularly useful as an addition To the cane or dog.

Yes, we need to keep an open mind with regard to technology, but those that are attempting to develop these things really need to have blind folks that know how to travel very much at the center of their efforts. 

Respectfully yours,

Robert Leslie Newman

NFBN Senior Division, President

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