[nfb-talk] canes and planes

Sat Jun 27 03:53:15 UTC 2009

David, what years did you do all that top secret work? How admirable. You 
should write a book.
Sherri
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Evans" <drevans at bellsouth.net>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] canes and planes


>
> Dear Brian,
>
> As a well adjusted blind person, a scientist and engineer, I well 
> understand the reasons that some people choose to use a ridged cane versus 
> a folding or telescoping cane.
> I also understand the reasons that the cane must be removed for a minute 
> to be inspected by security at the airports.
> Explosives or other dangerous things could be made to resemble a cane, to 
> be gotten pass security.
> I am certainly capable of walking a few feet without the service of my 
> cane and understand this is needed to preserve everyone's safety and 
> security in traveling these days.
> I have to do the same thing every time I go into a government building or 
> a high security area anyway.
> They also make people take their shoes off too, don't they?
> I am not going to get bent out of shape over it.  I understand the reasons 
> why and I can live with it.
> When I was younger, I worked in top secret programs, where security was 
> very tight. and can only say that I often had to fly to work, at a 
> location I can not talk about freely, where I had to go through a strict 
> inspection before I got on the plane and then an through an even tougher 
> one when I got off.
> We could not see out of the windows, did not know exactly where we were or 
> how long we might even be there.
> We were not let off the plane until it was inside the hanger and the doors 
> were closed.  Then we had to go  through a special security check where we 
> had to insert our own special I.D. card into a slot and place our fingers 
> on a special sensor plate to read our finger prints.
> We were then allowed to go down into the underground to a long hall we 
> just called "Broadway."
> Broadway led of to many shops and labs as well as sleeping rooms, a gym, 
> movie theater, cafe and meeting rooms.
> Access was very restricted and you were discouraged from talking to people 
> from other shops and labs.
> I had to fill out a form each week and name who I saw, spoke too and what 
> we talked about.  I had people follow me around and keep tabs on me even 
> at home and sometimes go through my trash.    If there was any question, I 
> was hauled into a office and hooked up to a lie detector and grilled like 
> a hot dog at the beach.
> As maybe you can see, there is allot more things tougher than the airport 
> security you have to put up with.
> I was legally blind even then but did not yet carry a cane as I do today. 
> The projects I was working on were the SR-71 and the F-117 Stealth Fighter 
> Programs and I don't think I have to tell you who ran the programs do I?
>
> David Evans, NFBF
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 5:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] canes and planes
>
>
>> dave,
>>
>> i have done the same with no problems but we were using common sense.
>> what about the older people who refuse to use anything other than a rigid
>> one piece cane that you can't easily put out of the way then they raise a
>> stink or threaten legal action when it is taken from them?
>> what about going thru the security point?
>> in 1999 in st. louis to san fran and in 2006 st. louis to dallas, the
>> security staff will not let you walk thru the walls with your cane.  they
>> put it on the conveyer belt and reach thru from the other side, grasp 
>> your
>> hands and help you from bumping the walls then give you back your cane.
>>
>> Bryan
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "David Evans" <drevans at bellsouth.net>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] canes and planes
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Dear Kat,
>>>
>>> I have never had my cane taken away from me ever, when flying on a 
>>> plane.
>>> I do carry a NFB telescoping cane and usually collapse it upon entering
>>> the plane and hang it on one of my belt loops with the "D" ring clip 
>>> that
>>> is tied to the top of the cane.
>>> Most people never even see it there.  I then take it off, after I am in 
>>> my
>>> seat and slide it into the seat pocket in front of me.
>>> I have always found it strange that they don't want to let me sit in the
>>> exit row because I am blind.  Especially since I help develop and test 
>>> the
>>> special "butterfly" valves that are used to inflate the 90 foot long 
>>> exit
>>> slides at the emergency doors.
>>> They are afraid that we can not read the instructions on how to open the
>>> doors and when they should be opened.
>>> They think that we are not smart enough to know that you don't open the
>>> door if there is fire outside on that side of the plane, like we would 
>>> not
>>> know just from all of the reaction of the other passengers yelling about
>>> it as soon as they see it.  There is also the fact that some of the 
>>> doors
>>> open inward and weigh about 90 pounds.  Some open outward and some 
>>> inward.
>>> Most require you to pull a "bobby pin" safety pin and then lift up on a
>>> handle to get the door to open and automatically inflate the slide.
>>> I think that letting a passenger get too drunk is a far greater danger
>>> than the presents of a blind person sitting in the exit row.  Especially
>>> when the lights go out.
>>> Just enjoy your trip and good luck with your presentation.
>>> Former resident of NAS Agana Guam.
>>>
>>> David Evans, NFBF
>>> Nuclear/aerospace materials Engineer
>>> Builder of the Lunar Rovers and the F-117 Stealth Fighter
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Kathleen Millhoff" <kmillhoff at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 2:17 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] canes and planes
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> thanks very much. there are still days when it occurs to me that for
>>>> many in society almost anything would be acceptable other than
>>>> blindness.
>>>> Still, I expect we're going to win in the long run.
>>>> This helps.
>>>> kat
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/24/09, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>>>>> There were several incidents in the 1980's where people were
>>>>> arrested, people were removed from planes, planes were held up
>>>>> etc.  Then basically, with the passage of the Air Carrier Access Act,
>>>>> in 1986 or 88 I think, we lost any legal defense we might have
>>>>> had.  The airlines were able to put into this law that anyone sitting
>>>>> in an exit row had to be able to do certain things visually.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, we have lost that battle, but the war isn't over yet.  I think we
>>>>> were to early in our protests -- that is society just wasn't far
>>>>> enough along in its thinking at the time where they could understand
>>>>> and accept what we were saying.
>>>>>
>>>>> The one thing we did accomplish, which benefits all airline
>>>>> passengers is that we forced airlines to look at their practices
>>>>> concerning exit row seating, and give it more attention.  Way back
>>>>> then people who shouldn't have sat there were allowed to do so,
>>>>> people who sat there were allowed to get inebriated etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> At 04:17 PM 6/23/2009, you wrote:
>>>>>>Good Morning from the Western Pacific,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm getting ready to present some opening remarks at a technology
>>>>>>conference here, and wonder if I could have some help; specifically,
>>>>>>I'd like to move beyond myth, legend and hearsay and learn the truth
>>>>>>about what happened when the NFB protested against having canes taken
>>>>>>away on airlines. By the way, I'm pretty old, and never had a problem
>>>>>>with my cane on a plane but since lots of people did, and the NFB
>>>>>>dealt with it, I'd like to know some specific things. For one thing,
>>>>>>I've heard or read or just intuited, that people blocked planes from
>>>>>>take-off somewhere. I was working it into my talk when I realized that
>>>>>>I didn't really know if this happened. Having been aided, corrected
>>>>>>and advised many times on this list, I hope someone will help me learn
>>>>>>the reality of the situation.
>>>>>>Thanks very much.
>>>>>>kat
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>kathy millhoff - "Let each morn be better than its eve, and each
>>>>>>morrow richer than its yesterday."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> kathy millhoff - "Let each morn be better than its eve, and each
>>>> morrow richer than its yesterday."
>>>>
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>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
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