[nfb-talk] canes and planes

Kenneth Chrane kenneth.chrane at verizon.net
Mon Jun 29 11:31:43 UTC 2009


Greetings fellow Federationists, you may want to look back at some Braille 
Monitors that came out in the 1980's go to:
http://www.nfb.org/publications or call the National office at (410) 
659-9314 then press 4.
Hope this helps.
Ken Chrane

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kathleen Millhoff" <kmillhoff at gmail.com>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] canes and planes


> hi,
> i've enjoyed reading these responses; i don't have too many
> difficulties with flying but hoped to use a bit of our history to
> describe something about assistive technology for my presentation; i
> agree with a couple comments here: drug or alcahol induced
> insensitivity is far more frightening than blindness - and i'll
> mention this to any who cre to listen.
> thanks to all
> kat
>
>
> On 6/27/09, Bryan Schulz <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> that's really cool and it sucks that not everybody gets a good break.
>> i was just wondering how people felt about the security points and if 
>> anyone
>> had been excessively harassed.
>>
>> in '99, i went with my mom to visit cousin/family and go to the autolite
>> nationals drag race in san fran and had to open my large nylon bag before
>> the return flight because the guy watching the xray screen thought he saw 
>> a
>> large hunting knife.  he thought he would gain a bonus or promotion for
>> catching a thug with an illegal weapon and was pissed when he found out 
>> it
>> was the body of a die cast funny car resting rolled up on one side.
>> Bryan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "David Evans" <drevans at bellsouth.net>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 9:16 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] canes and planes
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Dear Brian,
>>>
>>> As a well adjusted blind person, a scientist and engineer, I well
>>> understand the reasons that some people choose to use a ridged cane 
>>> versus
>>>
>>> a folding or telescoping cane.
>>> I also understand the reasons that the cane must be removed for a minute
>>> to be inspected by security at the airports.
>>> Explosives or other dangerous things could be made to resemble a cane, 
>>> to
>>> be gotten pass security.
>>> I am certainly capable of walking a few feet without the service of my
>>> cane and understand this is needed to preserve everyone's safety and
>>> security in traveling these days.
>>> I have to do the same thing every time I go into a government building 
>>> or
>>> a high security area anyway.
>>> They also make people take their shoes off too, don't they?
>>> I am not going to get bent out of shape over it.  I understand the 
>>> reasons
>>>
>>> why and I can live with it.
>>> When I was younger, I worked in top secret programs, where security was
>>> very tight. and can only say that I often had to fly to work, at a
>>> location I can not talk about freely, where I had to go through a strict
>>> inspection before I got on the plane and then an through an even tougher
>>> one when I got off.
>>> We could not see out of the windows, did not know exactly where we were 
>>> or
>>>
>>> how long we might even be there.
>>> We were not let off the plane until it was inside the hanger and the 
>>> doors
>>>
>>> were closed.  Then we had to go  through a special security check where 
>>> we
>>>
>>> had to insert our own special I.D. card into a slot and place our 
>>> fingers
>>> on a special sensor plate to read our finger prints.
>>> We were then allowed to go down into the underground to a long hall we
>>> just called "Broadway."
>>> Broadway led of to many shops and labs as well as sleeping rooms, a gym,
>>> movie theater, cafe and meeting rooms.
>>> Access was very restricted and you were discouraged from talking to 
>>> people
>>>
>>> from other shops and labs.
>>> I had to fill out a form each week and name who I saw, spoke too and 
>>> what
>>> we talked about.  I had people follow me around and keep tabs on me even
>>> at home and sometimes go through my trash.    If there was any question, 
>>> I
>>>
>>> was hauled into a office and hooked up to a lie detector and grilled 
>>> like
>>> a hot dog at the beach.
>>> As maybe you can see, there is allot more things tougher than the 
>>> airport
>>> security you have to put up with.
>>> I was legally blind even then but did not yet carry a cane as I do 
>>> today.
>>> The projects I was working on were the SR-71 and the F-117 Stealth 
>>> Fighter
>>>
>>> Programs and I don't think I have to tell you who ran the programs do I?
>>>
>>> David Evans, NFBF
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 5:33 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] canes and planes
>>>
>>>
>>>> dave,
>>>>
>>>> i have done the same with no problems but we were using common sense.
>>>> what about the older people who refuse to use anything other than a 
>>>> rigid
>>>> one piece cane that you can't easily put out of the way then they raise 
>>>> a
>>>> stink or threaten legal action when it is taken from them?
>>>> what about going thru the security point?
>>>> in 1999 in st. louis to san fran and in 2006 st. louis to dallas, the
>>>> security staff will not let you walk thru the walls with your cane. 
>>>> they
>>>> put it on the conveyer belt and reach thru from the other side, grasp
>>>> your
>>>> hands and help you from bumping the walls then give you back your cane.
>>>>
>>>> Bryan
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "David Evans" <drevans at bellsouth.net>
>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:06 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] canes and planes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Kat,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have never had my cane taken away from me ever, when flying on a
>>>>> plane.
>>>>> I do carry a NFB telescoping cane and usually collapse it upon 
>>>>> entering
>>>>> the plane and hang it on one of my belt loops with the "D" ring clip
>>>>> that
>>>>> is tied to the top of the cane.
>>>>> Most people never even see it there.  I then take it off, after I am 
>>>>> in
>>>>> my
>>>>> seat and slide it into the seat pocket in front of me.
>>>>> I have always found it strange that they don't want to let me sit in 
>>>>> the
>>>>> exit row because I am blind.  Especially since I help develop and test
>>>>> the
>>>>> special "butterfly" valves that are used to inflate the 90 foot long
>>>>> exit
>>>>> slides at the emergency doors.
>>>>> They are afraid that we can not read the instructions on how to open 
>>>>> the
>>>>> doors and when they should be opened.
>>>>> They think that we are not smart enough to know that you don't open 
>>>>> the
>>>>> door if there is fire outside on that side of the plane, like we would
>>>>> not
>>>>> know just from all of the reaction of the other passengers yelling 
>>>>> about
>>>>> it as soon as they see it.  There is also the fact that some of the
>>>>> doors
>>>>> open inward and weigh about 90 pounds.  Some open outward and some
>>>>> inward.
>>>>> Most require you to pull a "bobby pin" safety pin and then lift up on 
>>>>> a
>>>>> handle to get the door to open and automatically inflate the slide.
>>>>> I think that letting a passenger get too drunk is a far greater danger
>>>>> than the presents of a blind person sitting in the exit row. 
>>>>> Especially
>>>>> when the lights go out.
>>>>> Just enjoy your trip and good luck with your presentation.
>>>>> Former resident of NAS Agana Guam.
>>>>>
>>>>> David Evans, NFBF
>>>>> Nuclear/aerospace materials Engineer
>>>>> Builder of the Lunar Rovers and the F-117 Stealth Fighter
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Kathleen Millhoff" <kmillhoff at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 2:17 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] canes and planes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> thanks very much. there are still days when it occurs to me that for
>>>>>> many in society almost anything would be acceptable other than
>>>>>> blindness.
>>>>>> Still, I expect we're going to win in the long run.
>>>>>> This helps.
>>>>>> kat
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6/24/09, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> There were several incidents in the 1980's where people were
>>>>>>> arrested, people were removed from planes, planes were held up
>>>>>>> etc.  Then basically, with the passage of the Air Carrier Access 
>>>>>>> Act,
>>>>>>> in 1986 or 88 I think, we lost any legal defense we might have
>>>>>>> had.  The airlines were able to put into this law that anyone 
>>>>>>> sitting
>>>>>>> in an exit row had to be able to do certain things visually.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, we have lost that battle, but the war isn't over yet.  I think 
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>> were to early in our protests -- that is society just wasn't far
>>>>>>> enough along in its thinking at the time where they could understand
>>>>>>> and accept what we were saying.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The one thing we did accomplish, which benefits all airline
>>>>>>> passengers is that we forced airlines to look at their practices
>>>>>>> concerning exit row seating, and give it more attention.  Way back
>>>>>>> then people who shouldn't have sat there were allowed to do so,
>>>>>>> people who sat there were allowed to get inebriated etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At 04:17 PM 6/23/2009, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>Good Morning from the Western Pacific,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I'm getting ready to present some opening remarks at a technology
>>>>>>>>conference here, and wonder if I could have some help; specifically,
>>>>>>>>I'd like to move beyond myth, legend and hearsay and learn the truth
>>>>>>>>about what happened when the NFB protested against having canes 
>>>>>>>>taken
>>>>>>>>away on airlines. By the way, I'm pretty old, and never had a 
>>>>>>>>problem
>>>>>>>>with my cane on a plane but since lots of people did, and the NFB
>>>>>>>>dealt with it, I'd like to know some specific things. For one thing,
>>>>>>>>I've heard or read or just intuited, that people blocked planes from
>>>>>>>>take-off somewhere. I was working it into my talk when I realized 
>>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>>I didn't really know if this happened. Having been aided, corrected
>>>>>>>>and advised many times on this list, I hope someone will help me 
>>>>>>>>learn
>>>>>>>>the reality of the situation.
>>>>>>>>Thanks very much.
>>>>>>>>kat
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>kathy millhoff - "Let each morn be better than its eve, and each
>>>>>>>>morrow richer than its yesterday."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> kathy millhoff - "Let each morn be better than its eve, and each
>>>>>> morrow richer than its yesterday."
>>>>>>
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>
>
> -- 
> kathy millhoff - "Let each morn be better than its eve, and each
> morrow richer than its yesterday."
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
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