[nfb-talk] Enough already!

[Joshua Lester]

Ray, I agree with you wholeheartedly, although, I disagree with the
NFB's stance on accessible currency for the blind. The argument I get
from most NFB members is, "well, get the I-Bill," but they don't
understand is that it's too expensive for some of us, like myself who
are going to college, and having to pay for that. $99 for a little
gadget is too much. If they'll lower the price at the next convention
that I'll be able to attend, (2012 in Dallas,) I'll buy the I-Bill.
But until then, accessible currency is the way to go, (just my humble
oppinion.) Blessings, Joshua

On 12/9/10, Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net> wrote:
> David, I must agree with Joseph on this point.  I will speak frankly here.
> Why do you tolerate vicious attacks on not only the NFB but on the members
> of this list who hold with that way of thinking, not just because some
> federation leader says so, but because of their own personal experience?  I
> understand wanting to tolerate healthy and open and honest discussion; but
> David, there are some individuals, (I'm not going to name names because I
> believe you know who they are if you have been truly reading the posts
> here), who have violently attacked not only me but others who think as I do.
>  I have had enough; and, so, I dare say, have those who hold with me.  I'm
> not giving out the names of these attackers because I don't feel the need to
> sink this list in to that mire.  If a person honestly does not know the
> answer to the reason why an independent blind person says or thinks or does
> something, of course, it goes without  saying that they should feel more
> than free to ask.  But Dave, I think we both know that this is not what
> Joseph and I are talking about here.  Honest ignorance is one thing.
> Attacks are another.  I will not claim to be totally guiltless myself in
> this regard, and so, indeed, I may not be.  However, this has truly gone on
> quite long enough.  I'm writing this as an open response so that everyone
> may know just exactly how I feel.  Mind you, I can't speak for others here
> directly, (only they can and must), but, I think I know some others here
> well enough to be able to make a fairly good guess at how they feel.  This
> is supposed to be a list where ideas can be freely shared, and, sans the
> personal attacks, (which have become more and more of late), it is.  But, I
> too have noticed that those who defend the NFB positions on certain matters
> are threatened and the attackers defended.  Why is this?  Surely, you must
> know what I'm talking about?  I believe you do.  Tolerance is, in general,
> good, but, there comes a time when enough is enough.  It would appear that,
> (at least with respect to Joseph and myself), our patience has about reached
> it's end.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>
> Skype Name:
> barefootedray
>
> On Dec 9, 2010, at 2:05 PM, T. Joseph Carter wrote:
>
>> David,
>>
>> Have you noticed the trend of discussions on this list over the past
>> couple of years or so?  I have, and I’ve double-checked the archives to be
>> sure I wasn’t reading something into it.  The pattern is that every large
>> discussion seems to involve one group of people arguing for the ability of
>> the blind, for the NFB, its policies, and its mission.  The other side of
>> the discussion is generally one person.
>>
>> The pattern of the discussion is that the individual says something
>> incendiary against one of the above, something I have a hard time
>> accepting is unintentional at this point.  The group reacts, some with
>> distaste, some with disagreement, and some with anger.  This last group
>> has taken the bait, if you will.
>>
>> This is where you come in, because inevitably the individual insists that
>> he is “offended” and “baselessly attacked” for his views.  You defend him,
>> going so far as to threaten to ban longtime regulars and well-respected
>> federationists.  The individual takes this as a sign that he may stand
>> behind you, and continue to insult not only us few here, but everything
>> this organization stands for.
>>
>> The fact that there is not a single person on this list that does not know
>> of whom I speak is evidence in and of itself.  It’s really got to stop.
>> Those who would not be flamed should not make a habit of setting fires.
>> Having set a few myself over the years, it comes with the territory.
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 08, 2010 at 10:19:24PM -0600, David Andrews wrote:
>>> This is a personal attack and is totally unacceptable.  You can disagree
>>> with someone -- but please stick to facts, not speculation etc.
>>>
>>> David Andrews, Moderator
>>>
>>> At 03:09 PM 12/6/2010, you wrote:
>>>> I agree Gloria.  He is a very shallow person, and I don't care of his
>>>> $250,000 house is paid off or not.  He could rip off Bernie Madoff, the
>>>> biggest cheat in the world, and he wouldn't impress me..smile.
>>>>
>>>> Connie Canode
>>>
>>>
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