[nfb-talk] Enough already!

Thu Dec 9 22:33:03 UTC 2010

Well, Josh, my answer to you would not be the  Ibill; instead, I'd advise you to just save your money and fold it different ways.  Myself, I'd love to have the Ibill.

Back to the topic though.

I felt a need to come on here and publically support Joseph because, as usual, I can't stand to see a friend stand alone on an issue; especially when I feel he or she is right.

This is one such case.

Sincerely, 
The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!

Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!

Skype Name:
barefootedray

On Dec 9, 2010, at 4:28 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:

> Ray, I agree with you wholeheartedly, although, I disagree with the
> NFB's stance on accessible currency for the blind. The argument I get
> from most NFB members is, "well, get the I-Bill," but they don't
> understand is that it's too expensive for some of us, like myself who
> are going to college, and having to pay for that. $99 for a little
> gadget is too much. If they'll lower the price at the next convention
> that I'll be able to attend, (2012 in Dallas,) I'll buy the I-Bill.
> But until then, accessible currency is the way to go, (just my humble
> oppinion.) Blessings, Joshua
> 
> On 12/9/10, Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net> wrote:
>> David, I must agree with Joseph on this point.  I will speak frankly here.
>> Why do you tolerate vicious attacks on not only the NFB but on the members
>> of this list who hold with that way of thinking, not just because some
>> federation leader says so, but because of their own personal experience?  I
>> understand wanting to tolerate healthy and open and honest discussion; but
>> David, there are some individuals, (I'm not going to name names because I
>> believe you know who they are if you have been truly reading the posts
>> here), who have violently attacked not only me but others who think as I do.
>> I have had enough; and, so, I dare say, have those who hold with me.  I'm
>> not giving out the names of these attackers because I don't feel the need to
>> sink this list in to that mire.  If a person honestly does not know the
>> answer to the reason why an independent blind person says or thinks or does
>> something, of course, it goes without  saying that they should feel more
>> than free to ask.  But Dave, I think we both know that this is not what
>> Joseph and I are talking about here.  Honest ignorance is one thing.
>> Attacks are another.  I will not claim to be totally guiltless myself in
>> this regard, and so, indeed, I may not be.  However, this has truly gone on
>> quite long enough.  I'm writing this as an open response so that everyone
>> may know just exactly how I feel.  Mind you, I can't speak for others here
>> directly, (only they can and must), but, I think I know some others here
>> well enough to be able to make a fairly good guess at how they feel.  This
>> is supposed to be a list where ideas can be freely shared, and, sans the
>> personal attacks, (which have become more and more of late), it is.  But, I
>> too have noticed that those who defend the NFB positions on certain matters
>> are threatened and the attackers defended.  Why is this?  Surely, you must
>> know what I'm talking about?  I believe you do.  Tolerance is, in general,
>> good, but, there comes a time when enough is enough.  It would appear that,
>> (at least with respect to Joseph and myself), our patience has about reached
>> it's end.
>> 
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>> 
>> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>> 
>> Skype Name:
>> barefootedray
>> 
>> On Dec 9, 2010, at 2:05 PM, T. Joseph Carter wrote:
>> 
>>> David,
>>> 
>>> Have you noticed the trend of discussions on this list over the past
>>> couple of years or so?  I have, and I’ve double-checked the archives to be
>>> sure I wasn’t reading something into it.  The pattern is that every large
>>> discussion seems to involve one group of people arguing for the ability of
>>> the blind, for the NFB, its policies, and its mission.  The other side of
>>> the discussion is generally one person.
>>> 
>>> The pattern of the discussion is that the individual says something
>>> incendiary against one of the above, something I have a hard time
>>> accepting is unintentional at this point.  The group reacts, some with
>>> distaste, some with disagreement, and some with anger.  This last group
>>> has taken the bait, if you will.
>>> 
>>> This is where you come in, because inevitably the individual insists that
>>> he is “offended” and “baselessly attacked” for his views.  You defend him,
>>> going so far as to threaten to ban longtime regulars and well-respected
>>> federationists.  The individual takes this as a sign that he may stand
>>> behind you, and continue to insult not only us few here, but everything
>>> this organization stands for.
>>> 
>>> The fact that there is not a single person on this list that does not know
>>> of whom I speak is evidence in and of itself.  It’s really got to stop.
>>> Those who would not be flamed should not make a habit of setting fires.
>>> Having set a few myself over the years, it comes with the territory.
>>> 
>>> Joseph
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Dec 08, 2010 at 10:19:24PM -0600, David Andrews wrote:
>>>> This is a personal attack and is totally unacceptable.  You can disagree
>>>> with someone -- but please stick to facts, not speculation etc.
>>>> 
>>>> David Andrews, Moderator
>>>> 
>>>> At 03:09 PM 12/6/2010, you wrote:
>>>>> I agree Gloria.  He is a very shallow person, and I don't care of his
>>>>> $250,000 house is paid off or not.  He could rip off Bernie Madoff, the
>>>>> biggest cheat in the world, and he wouldn't impress me..smile.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Connie Canode
>>>> 
>>>> 
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