[nfb-talk] Enough already!

[John G. Heim]

I have never attacked anyone on this list.

PS: I don't know what the point of this "you know who" charade  is either. 
Just say, "John Heim". What difference does it make?




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Enough already!


David, I must agree with Joseph on this point.  I will speak frankly here. 
Why do you tolerate vicious attacks on not only the NFB but on the members 
of this list who hold with that way of thinking, not just because some 
federation leader says so, but because of their own personal experience?  I 
understand wanting to tolerate healthy and open and honest discussion; but 
David, there are some individuals, (I'm not going to name names because I 
believe you know who they are if you have been truly reading the posts 
here), who have violently attacked not only me but others who think as I do. 
I have had enough; and, so, I dare say, have those who hold with me.  I'm 
not giving out the names of these attackers because I don't feel the need to 
sink this list in to that mire.  If a person honestly does not know the 
answer to the reason why an independent blind person says or thinks or does 
something, of course, it goes without  saying that they should feel more 
than free to ask.  But Dave, I think we both know that this is not what 
Joseph and I are talking about here.  Honest ignorance is one thing. 
Attacks are another.  I will not claim to be totally guiltless myself in 
this regard, and so, indeed, I may not be.  However, this has truly gone on 
quite long enough.  I'm writing this as an open response so that everyone 
may know just exactly how I feel.  Mind you, I can't speak for others here 
directly, (only they can and must), but, I think I know some others here 
well enough to be able to make a fairly good guess at how they feel.  This 
is supposed to be a list where ideas can be freely shared, and, sans the 
personal attacks, (which have become more and more of late), it is.  But, I 
too have noticed that those who defend the NFB positions on certain matters 
are threatened and the attackers defended.  Why is this?  Surely, you must 
know what I'm talking about?  I believe you do.  Tolerance is, in general, 
good, but, there comes a time when enough is enough.  It would appear that, 
(at least with respect to Joseph and myself), our patience has about reached 
it's end.


Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!

Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!

Skype Name:
barefootedray

On Dec 9, 2010, at 2:05 PM, T. Joseph Carter wrote:

> David,
>
> Have you noticed the trend of discussions on this list over the past 
> couple of years or so?  I have, and I’ve double-checked the archives to be 
> sure I wasn’t reading something into it.  The pattern is that every large 
> discussion seems to involve one group of people arguing for the ability of 
> the blind, for the NFB, its policies, and its mission.  The other side of 
> the discussion is generally one person.
>
> The pattern of the discussion is that the individual says something 
> incendiary against one of the above, something I have a hard time 
> accepting is unintentional at this point.  The group reacts, some with 
> distaste, some with disagreement, and some with anger.  This last group 
> has taken the bait, if you will.
>
> This is where you come in, because inevitably the individual insists that 
> he is “offended” and “baselessly attacked” for his views.  You defend him, 
> going so far as to threaten to ban longtime regulars and well-respected 
> federationists.  The individual takes this as a sign that he may stand 
> behind you, and continue to insult not only us few here, but everything 
> this organization stands for.
>
> The fact that there is not a single person on this list that does not know 
> of whom I speak is evidence in and of itself.  It’s really got to stop. 
> Those who would not be flamed should not make a habit of setting fires. 
> Having set a few myself over the years, it comes with the territory.
>
> Joseph
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 08, 2010 at 10:19:24PM -0600, David Andrews wrote:
>> This is a personal attack and is totally unacceptable.  You can disagree 
>> with someone -- but please stick to facts, not speculation etc.
>>
>> David Andrews, Moderator
>>
>> At 03:09 PM 12/6/2010, you wrote:
>>> I agree Gloria.  He is a very shallow person, and I don't care of his 
>>> $250,000 house is paid off or not.  He could rip off Bernie Madoff, the 
>>> biggest cheat in the world, and he wouldn't impress me..smile.
>>>
>>> Connie Canode
>>
>>
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>
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